TX - pregnant wife unresponsive on life support, husband hopes to fulfill her wishes

[faw720]

Actually, it's a totally crazy situation!! I just don't understand why other people or state lawmakers think they have the right to force their beliefs on others. If I or my family makes a life or death decision & if we're wrong in that decision, we are the ones who will ultimately pay the price, not anyone else. I don't try to force my beliefs on anyone else.:banghead:

 

[musicaljoke]

They already have a child who still needs his father's attention and money, and you can't have any money if you are being forced against your will to pay what has to be upwards of a thousand dollars a day for God knows how many weeks. This family is going to be forced to file for bankruptcy, and you just KNOW that while they're in the poor house all the big wig law makers will stare down their noses at them..

Would it play out differently if the family didn't have to be concerned about the health care costs? I can't imagine living somewhere, where health care costs could force a family into bankruptcy. :/

 

[EmmaliLucia]

Would it play out differently if the family didn't have to be concerned about the health care costs? I can't imagine living somewhere, where health care costs could force a family into bankruptcy. :/

No, I would not feel differently if finances did not play a role in this.

The family doesn't want her to be hooked up to a ventilator, the state should not be forcing them to do it.


I honestly don't know how I'd feel about it if the family DID want her on the ventilator, though.


Welcome to America. Where even with health insurance one bad Owie or illness will throw you straight into bankruptcy.
In fact, you're talking to someone who in December had a breast cancer scare, and now I'm just waiting for the ultrasound bill scare, we're praying that it's not over $1,000.

 

[NevadaMom]

Would it play out differently if the family didn't have to be concerned about the health care costs? I can't imagine living somewhere, where health care costs could force a family into bankruptcy. :/

No, because they are trying to honor her wishes in regards to being kept alive artificially. The bills will just be a slap in the face to top off the state forcing them to go against her wishes.

 

[Angelonline]

No, I would not feel differently if finances did not play a role in this.

The family doesn't want her to be hooked up to a ventilator, the state should not be forcing them to do it.


I honestly don't know how I'd feel about it if the family DID want her on the ventilator, though.


Welcome to America. Where even with health insurance one bad Owie or illness will throw you straight into bankruptcy.
In fact, you're talking to someone who in December had a breast cancer scare, and now I'm just waiting for the ultrasound bill scare, we're praying that it's not over $1,000.

Is there a link saying he is paying that kind of money? I certainly could have missed it. Usually people in the health care industry have the best of the best in insurance. And even if they had poor insurance there out of pocket expenses should have capped out already. Just curious if there is an article on the cost thing. Also thanks for the info on the child. I did not realize they had a toddler. How devastating for the poor baby to have lost its mom.

 

[faw720]

The poor woman's family is considering filing a law suite. If you read the article closely, a doctor states that the woman is NOT terminally ill. She is DEAD.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Fa...n-Wants-to-Remove-Life-Support-239612571.html

 

[Marg from Oz]

But will insurance pay for keeping a brain dead person on life support and all the medications she must be administered to keep her organs going?

 

[Elley Mae]

The hospital is citing a decades-old state law that states, “A person may not withdraw or withhold life-sustaining treatment… from a pregnant patient.” Texas is one of 12 states that invalidate women’s end-of-life wishes if she is pregnant.

In Munoz’s case, the hospital could actually be applying the law incorrectly.

“I think the Texas law cannot apply to the dead,” Art Caplan, the director of medical ethics at New York University’s Langone Medical Center, explained to the Star-Telegram. “I think the hospital is wrong to insist that it does.”

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/01/10/3146331/texas-family-sue-life-support/

Brain death, on the other hand, is one of the two medical definitions of death. In all 50 states, once a person is declared to be brain dead, they are considered to be deceased. In every state except for New York and New Jersey, hospitals don’t need to consult families to decide how to terminate care after a brain death diagnosis.

 

[faw720]

But will insurance pay for keeping a brain dead person on life support and all the medications she must be administered to keep her organs going?

I have wondered the same thing. I think an insurance company would have a perfectly legitimate reason to deny payment. Why on earth would they pay medical & hospital costs for a dead person?

 

[faw720]

Is there a link saying he is paying that kind of money? I certainly could have missed it. Usually people in the health care industry have the best of the best in insurance. And even if they had poor insurance there out of pocket expenses should have capped out already. Just curious if there is an article on the cost thing. Also thanks for the info on the child. I did not realize they had a toddler. How devastating for the poor baby to have lost its mom.

I googled the cost of life support & came up with all sorts of answers & non-answers. www.ask.com/question/average-cost-of-life-support states that the cost for equipment ONLY would be $3,000.00-$4,000.00 per day. Another site (& now I can't find it to post the link) said to plan on a minimum of $50,000.00 per week.

As we've already discussed in another post here, I think it's highly unlikely that an insurance company would pay for medical procedures for a dead person.

 

[KateB]

I would be interested in the insurance policy definition of dead. I believe brain dead is not dead by strictest interpretation.

 

[Elley Mae]

Some interesting reading regarding brain death.

The concept of brain death did not evolve to benefit organ transplants

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652772/

The Definition of Death

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/death-definition/

Two tragic cases have put the medical term in the news. But its meaning is not always clear to the public.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/01/140110-brain-dead-jahi-mcmath-marlise-munoz/

 

[K_Z]

Is there a link saying he is paying that kind of money? I certainly could have missed it. Usually people in the health care industry have the best of the best in insurance. And even if they had poor insurance there out of pocket expenses should have capped out already. Just curious if there is an article on the cost thing. Also thanks for the info on the child. I did not realize they had a toddler. How devastating for the poor baby to have lost its mom.

BBM.

No no no no no. That must be some kind of myth circulating. Health care workers have the same, or sometimes MORE challenges to obtaining affordable and high quality health care. (And Obama care, in our area, is making things far worse, as some insurance carriers are withdrawing services, and new mandatory service areas are being carved out that will force people to drive hours to see specialists that they now can visit within 20 miles of their homes.)

I work with many technicians that cannot receive their health care in the same facility that they work in. You see, a lot of hospitals play a game where they hire workers at less than the minimum weekly hours for "reasonably" priced policies. Then they offer them extra hours every week, but they are still not in an official position at 0.8 or 1.0. They are on overtime hours, which have a different status.

If their position doesn't meet certain thresholds, they CAN buy the hospital offered insurance, but the cost is so high that none of them can afford it.

One of our sterile supply techs is 0.4 in that position, and 0.2 in another supply position in the same hospital. Between the 2 positions she works far more than 0.6, but because neither position qualifies her for affordable insurance (the premium would be a huge proportion of her take home pay), she does not carry any insurance for herself, her husband, and her 2 kids. Husband is self employed.)

 

[faw720]

Some interesting reading regarding brain death.

The concept of brain death did not evolve to benefit organ transplants

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652772/

The Definition of Death

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/death-definition/

Two tragic cases have put the medical term in the news. But its meaning is not always clear to the public.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/01/140110-brain-dead-jahi-mcmath-marlise-munoz/

Thanks for these links!! They are great.

 

[faw720]

Here is an extremely interesting link on prenatal development. It's a fairly long read & there are other links you can follow if you wish. However, this link will provide the basic information on this poor baby's development when it was first deprived of oxygen at 14 weeks. You then can continue reading to see how a baby develops up to where we are now at about 20 weeks. You can also continue reading to understand developments from 20 weeks to 39 weeks.

Prenatal development - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I was hoping to find some information that would be encouraging. Didn't happen.

God bless this poor child & it's family.

 

[Reality Orlando]

Here is an extremely interesting link on prenatal development. It's a fairly long read & there are other links you can follow if you wish. However, this link will provide the basic information on this poor baby's development when it was first deprived of oxygen at 14 weeks. You then can continue reading to see how a baby develops up to where we are now at about 20 weeks. You can also continue reading to understand developments from 20 weeks to 39 weeks.

Prenatal development - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I was hoping to find some information that would be encouraging. Didn't happen.

God bless this poor child & it's family.

If they did take the mother off life support, what would happen to the child? How would it die and how long would it take?

 

[PMLsmom]

I was a six and a half month baby weighing 3 lbs. almost 48 years ago. I'm sure my parents were told lots of things. But here I am today a college graduate, healthy and normal. A friend of mine had a 24 week baby weighing 2 lbs and was told she would be mentally retarded. She will be graduating college in may. It may be rare, but there are more of us than you think. I'm hoping this baby beats all odds, and if it's family doesn't want him/her, I hope a loving family will adopt.

BBM - SO TRUE...I am also a 6-1/2 month preemie, weighed 3 lbs. 2 oz., born with umbilical cord around my neck, and died. My first kiss - Dr. did CPR. Yet here I am 50+ years later...Spent my first 30 days in an incubator, oh - and I have NO health problems, at all (not to brag, but to make a point - I was in mentally gifted classes all throughout school)...

ETA - Oh, and my mom was an alcoholic...

 

[EmmaliLucia]

If they did take the mother off life support, what would happen to the child? How would it die and how long would it take?

If they took her off of the ventilator her heart would probably stop beating within minutes. The blow flow to the fetus would stop when her heart beat stops (Which has already happened once). So I'd say probably 5-6 minutes after being taken off the ventilator.


And the thing is, this woman's heart has already stopped and it stopped long enough to lead to brain death, if she's brain dead then how do we know the fetus isn't brain dead, too?

 

[faw720]

If they took her off of the ventilator her heart would probably stop beating within minutes. The blow flow to the fetus would stop when her heart beat stops (Which has already happened once). So I'd say probably 5-6 minutes after being taken off the ventilator.


And the thing is, this woman's heart has already stopped and it stopped long enough to lead to brain death, if she's brain dead then how do we know the fetus isn't brain dead, too?

From what I've read doctors say the fetus has a heartbeat. That alone does not mean that the fetus has any chance of meaningful life. I have images in my mind of an incapacitated baby that is able to feel pain & terror with no way of communicating with anyone or having the ability to comprehend what is happening to it. Even the most primitive of animals are capable of feeling pain & terror. If you don't believe it, step on your dog's foot & see what happens.

 

[Fairy1]

With all due respect to the miracle preemie survivors - that is not what this particular case is about. I'd love to see the focus remain on the actual circumstances in this case.

The wishes of the mother and, with her legally dead, the father, are being controlled now by the state of Texas. Perhaps we should all put ourselves in their shoes and consider the consequences - whatever they may be. I sure as HE77 don't want my state determining what is best for me and my family.