UID Victim: The Female Toddler, UP9704, found Gilgo Beach Apr 2011

[future criminologist]

Here is a new article on the case posted today.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/20/justice/new-york-long-island-killings/index.html?hpt=ju_c2

Please note the new information on the child - I have been following this case and had not read this anywhere before:

In fact, DNA linked the toddler, who was between 16 months and 32 months of age, to another unidentified female victim whose remains were found seven miles away in April. Police said it was likely that the two were mother and child.

From the article, I am not certain as to which victim the toddler was linked to. Does anyone here know? That adds a totally new dimension to the case. We should start looking at mother-child pairs who have gone missing now.

 

[future criminologist]

Additional information on jewelry found with the toddler, from the article above:

Pictures of jewelry belonging to some of the victims were displayed at the news conference, with Dormer saying a rope necklace and hoop earrings likely belonged to the toddler, whose remains were found with bracelets that may have belonged to the person who authorities say was likely the toddler's mother. One of the bracelets was decorated with x's and o's with stones resembling diamonds. The other was a snake chain.

 

[Redbird]

The mother is the unidentified woman in the sketch who has not otherwise been named, as far as I can tell. Several news reports have her confused with the victim they have named Jane Doe #6, who is not the mother of the child. Some one correct me if I am wrong about this.

 

[Ashley123]

Hi Redbird-

I believe they are saying the new sketch is of the manorville woman, who remains were also found closest to the toddler, but they were determined to be unrelated. The woman who was related to the toddler was found in nassau, by jones beach, and no descriptive details have been released about her, except that she may have been wearing the two bracelets and the toddler is non-caucasian, which would likely make the relative non-caucasian as well...

I went through the missing kids database today and put in the estimated dates of disappearance, and this was the closest i could come up with...unless it went unreported, i'm sure it would most likely be assumed to be a family abduction, as the mother (or other relative) is obviously missing also. this girl was a little under 3 when she went missing, her ears were pierced and she is believed to be abducted by her mother from bayonne, nj. total speculation at this point, but what is the likelihood that a mother and child could go missing and no one would report it???

http://www.missingkids.com/missingk...seNum=1078904&orgPrefix=NCMC&searchLang=en_US

 

[future criminologist]

Hi Redbird-

The woman who was related to the toddler was found in nassau, by jones beach, and no descriptive details have been released about her, except that she may have been wearing the two bracelets and the toddler is non-caucasian, which would likely make the relative non-caucasian as well...

Do you have a source for this? I have not seen it written anywhere that the child was non-caucasian.

Also, I just want to clarify what I think the connection is, someone please by all means correct me if I'm wrong. The toddler found is related by DNA to the remains found in April 2011 on Jones Beach. The remains found in April 2011 are the same person who's legs were found washed up on Fire Island in 1996. So, by extension, that would mean that if the toddler and related UID were killed at the same time (most likely), the toddler was also placed there PRIOR to 1996. So we should be looking at missing children before 1996.

 

[future criminologist]

The mother is the unidentified woman in the sketch who has not otherwise been named, as far as I can tell. Several news reports have her confused with the victim they have named Jane Doe #6, who is not the mother of the child. Some one correct me if I am wrong about this.

I believe you are correct - the mother/relative of the toddler is NOT Jane Doe #6 but another Jane Doe who was found both in that location in April 2011, and other parts found on Fire Island in 1996.

We're going to eventually need to draw up a chart for all these connections - this case is just blowing my mind right now.

 

[kemo]

Clairification. The relative/probable mother of the child was found near Jones Beach in Nassau Co on 4/11/11. She was found intact in a plastic bag 1.5 miles East of the Jones Beach tower. Jane Doe #6 was found about 200ft from the child but there is no indication that they are related. The woman whose two legs were found on the beach at Fire Island on April 20, 1996 had her skull found about a mile west of where the relative/probable mother was found. That woman's torso is still not accounted for.

 

[Ashley123]

Do you have a source for this? I have not seen it written anywhere that the child was non-caucasian.

Also, I just want to clarify what I think the connection is, someone please by all means correct me if I'm wrong. The toddler found is related by DNA to the remains found in April 2011 on Jones Beach. The remains found in April 2011 are the same person who's legs were found washed up on Fire Island in 1996. So, by extension, that would mean that if the toddler and related UID were killed at the same time (most likely), the toddler was also placed there PRIOR to 1996. So we should be looking at missing children before 1996.

Hi Future Criminologist.

Dormer said it in his press conference. Here is the link to the newsday article where it states it:

http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/police-reveal-new-details-on-gilgo-victims-1.3185257

"A female, non-Caucasian toddler thought to be 16 to 32 months old, who was also found April 4, is a blood relative of another woman found 7 miles away in Nassau County on April 11 near Jones Beach. "It is likely that these two individuals are mother and child," Dormer said."

He also stated that he believes the two went missing between 1 and 5 years ago...

 

[Reannan]

The Mother/Child victims are believed to have been killed 4-5 years ago according to this article. We do not have sketches of either the Mother or the Child yet, but we have been told the child was non-caucasian, and we have pictures of the gold jewelry from both the mother and child. We are also making a bit of an assumption that this is a Mother/Child relationship.... I do not believe that has been confirmed - they were related. So, technically they could be sisters, or an Aunt/Niece situation. When we search though missing person databases, keep that in mind.

http://www.longislandpress.com/2011/09/20/new-details-victim-sketches-released-in-gilgo-murder-case/

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Wait a second...wasn't there some talk of a tenant of Brewer's disappearing, along with her young child?

Gia something? Anyone else recall this?

 

[Redbird]

Several posters, including myself, tried their best to track this rumor down. I spent much time on google, as did others, and could find nothing that would fit the time period for a woman and child missing. I concluded this was just a rumor started by someone trying their best to make JB a suspect.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Several posters, including myself, tried their best to track this rumor down. I spent much time on google, as did others, and could find nothing that would fit the time period for a woman and child missing. I concluded this was just a rumor started by someone trying their best to make JB a suspect.

I sleuthed it too, Redbird...but it was so long ago, I couldn't remember all the details. Part of the problem, for me, was trying to track down such scant info. I don't believe Gia was even her first name, and I never could determine her last name or the actual address, other than it was somewhere close to 111 Higbie(?).

Anyway...kind of silly to bring it up, I guess, since none of us has enough info to dig any deeper.

 

[Redbird]

It did drive me nuts trying to finding it. I think I looked up every missing woman for the time period with or without kids.

 

[future criminologist]

It did drive me nuts trying to finding it. I think I looked up every missing woman for the time period with or without kids.

What's the time period exactly? I keep getting confused between all these victims and body parts turning up in different places at different times!

 

[Redbird]

What's the time period exactly? I keep getting confused between all these victims and body parts turning up in different places at different times!

In quickly searching my notes, I found this rumor mainly coming from one poster. He claims JB and his brother are landlords in West Islip and just over a year before bodies were discovered, a single mom named Gia who lived in an apartment house on Higbie Lane across the street from 111 Higblie Lane disappeared along with her 2 year old daughter. Supposedly she was JB's girlfriend. The poster claimed to not know her last name. No one else seems to be able to find any information about her.

 

[scandi]

Several posters, including myself, tried their best to track this rumor down. I spent much time on google, as did others, and could find nothing that would fit the time period for a woman and child missing. I concluded this was just a rumor started by someone trying their best to make JB a suspect.

Thanks Redbird for giving it the 'ole college try. Learning of this possibility is almost haunting.

If this rumored info is fact it would point to JB being suspect as the SK, right? I remember watching him on TV right after this investigation started and he did seem weird to me - his demeanor a bit too casual for the severity of what he was involved with I thought. Very soft spoken with a smiley type disposition is what hit me. Odd I thought, not direct nor very dynamic in speaking out about what had happened.

I'm still too stuck on CPH because of all the Circum. info we have about him. I think it could well be JB and CPH worked in laison somehow. Shannan's trail led the way {without forethought on her part IMO} down to CPH's house which is where he could have seen her running {driving, looking for her} and stopped, grabbed her up into the truck. He also could have been at JB's house when the going got verbally scary for Shannon and she ran out the door. That is what I think happened just off the cuff from reading everything.

But after reading everything written on this forum I think the FBI knew who the killer was right away. The posters here are very astute IMO and I read them with their great insight and investigatory knowledge.

I think LE knows just who committed these murders but need back-up info from the public to arrest the person/s involved. I hope the heat is on and the killer is shivering in his boots about now.

ETA: Oh, I just remembered about JB being seen with someone loading a trailer beside his house. Could it have been CPH who was his cohort and they had something nefarious going on? Maybe they never raised any eyebrows until Shannon went missing besides JB loading the trailer like that in the middle of the night. I have no idea but it seems suspicious to me. IMO

 

[stillwatersc]

In quickly searching my notes, I found this rumor mainly coming from one poster. He claims JB and his brother are landlords in West Islip and just over a year before bodies were discovered, a single mom named Gia who lived in an apartment house on Higbie Lane across the street from 111 Higblie Lane disappeared along with her 2 year old daughter. Supposedly she was JB's girlfriend. The poster claimed to not know her last name. No one else seems to be able to find any information about her.

Surely the woman & child would have been id'ed by now if she was the missing girlfriend of JB (if he even has a missing girlfriend).

 

[Redbird]

Surely the woman & child would have been id'ed by now if she was the missing girlfriend of JB (if he even has a missing girlfriend).

I'm sure LE would have been all over this if there were some basis for this rumor. And they have many tools we do do not have to locate this person if they existed. Every comment this poster made was an attempt to point away from CPH and toward JB.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Surely the woman & child would have been id'ed by now if she was the missing girlfriend of JB (if he even has a missing girlfriend).

It's also quite possible that the poster of the story simply didn't have his or her facts straight. Maybe this girl and her daughter did disappear, but not under any nefarious circumstances. Sometimes people owe a landlord money, can't pay, and just take off.

Who can say?

The only reason I brought it up was because I had forgotten about it until the other day, and was just curious if anyone else had run across that story, or found any more info on it.

 

[Redbird]

At my last job I had access to a skip tracing site that would give you the last fifteen or twenty addresses for a person. You could also do a reverse search and see all the previous occupants of any particular address. Would love to have that handy now! And I used to look up addresses where I was living to see if anybody had died there. It would even tell you that. Didn't want to be living with any ghosts.