UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #7

[Nikynoo]

He's pushing it though, he clearly despises her and cannot contain it...
Appeal grounds?
Where's his evidence?
How thorough was the autopsy on Victoria?

I don't think his summing up would be grounds of appeal. TBH, I haven't taken to this prosecutor at all during this trial. The prosecutor who stood in for him, was a little better. It will be for the defence summing up, to put right/clarify anything in the prosecutions summing up.

I agree he should direct to jury to the evidence shown, e.g. bringing out the buggy and saying there was no liner (or no specific type of liner), when there clearly was a liner shown in CCTV, is disingenuous IMO. That being said, the buggy purchase only shows that the purchaser (MG) purchased item(s) that were wholly inadequate for what they needed. In addition, the buggy was abandoned soon after purchase, so IMO,it has very little relevance. From what I can remember, there was no direct evidence that V was placed in a bag during her life, but I suppose the inference is there.

I think they did the best they could in respect to the autopsy due to decomp. I do think though, that V died very early on, and I do think she was smothered inside that jacket.

 

[Nikynoo]

I mean it could end up having to go to retrial. A weak Prosecution case (and, to be honest, a weak Defence case too) is less likely to result in the return of a majority/unanimous verdict. JMO
ETA perhaps "collapse" was the wrong word. I wasn't aware it was a legal term. I meant it in the sense that the trial might not successfully return an outcome that resulted in a conviction or acquittal.

We can only go with what has been reported. The jury seem to be very engaged (due to the amount of questions asked), but the flip side is that neither side has been particularly clear in the tesimony or timeline given (otherwise why so many questions). The biggest risk is introducing evidence that is not relevant (e.g. the debt letter for 25K). Why show it to the jury as part of evidence, only for it not to be 'relevant to THIS case', when the jury asked the question?

 

[kittythehare]

I don't think his summing up would be grounds of appeal. TBH, I haven't taken to this prosecutor at all during this trial. The prosecutor who stood in for him, was a little better. It will be for the defence summing up, to put right/clarify anything in the prosecutions summing up.

I agree he should direct to jury to the evidence shown, e.g. bringing out the buggy and saying there was no liner (or no specific type of liner), when there clearly was a liner shown in CCTV, is disingenuous IMO. That being said, the buggy purchase only shows that the purchaser (MG) purchased item(s) that were wholly inadequate for what they needed. In addition, the buggy was abandoned soon after purchase, so IMO,it has very little relevance. From what I can remember, there was no direct evidence that V was placed in a bag during her life, but I suppose the inference is there.

I think they did the best they could in respect to the autopsy due to decomp. I do think though, that V died very early on, and I do think she was smothered inside that jacket.

Thanks Nikynoo for your clear thinking..
I merely got bits of the trial, snatches here and there...

Was the bag analysed?
I thought the pushchair was just to carry their bags, you cannot put an infant in one or in a car seat either, can you?

 

[Nikynoo]

Thanks Nikynoo for your clear thinking..
I merely got bits of the trial, snatches here and there...

Was the bag analysed?
I thought the pushchair was just to carry their bags, you cannot put an infant in one or in a car seat either, can you?

Nothing has been reported about the bag being analysed, but V was found in the same bag I believe. I believe the pushchair was suitabe for the age range. In respect to the car seat - are you thinking positional asphyxia ?

 

[Alyce]

Central Criminal Court​	5​	T20237104​	constance marten mark alton gordon​
Details: Trial (Part Heard) - Prosecution Closing Speech - 10:48

www.thelawpages.com

 

[kittythehare]

Nothing has been reported about the bag being analysed, but V was found in the same bag I believe. I believe the pushchair was suitabe for the age range. In respect to the car seat - are you thinking positional asphyxia ?

yes re positional asphyxia..
a bag analysis should be able to produce evidence of a living baby having been contained within it too..

Nothing has been reported much at all, has it?

The baby's body would have been scanned because Prof Fleming was able to tell by the size of her bones that she had not lived for very long.

‘Exceedingly unlikely’ baby Victoria died from cold, fugitive aristocrat's trial told | BreakingNews.ie

Victoria’s badly decomposed body was found inside a Lidl bag on an allotment shed

www.breakingnews.ie

That info must have been presented in court..
It's relevant, especially if there had been any suspicion of abuse..

 

[Alyce]

38 minutes ago

What we expect to happen today​

Lead prosecutor Tom Little KC will continue his closing speech for the crown, started yesterday, before lawyers representing Constance Marten and Mark Gordon will begin to provide their own closing remarks on the defence evidence provided to the jury.


2 minutes ago

Proceedings today have just started​

We’ll bring you updates as we get them from our crime correspondent Amy-Clare Martin at the Old Bailey

Constance Marten trial: Aristocrat and Gordon carried baby in bag ‘while still alive’

Jurors are hearing the final pieces of evidence before they retire to consider their verdict in manslaughter trial

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Nikynoo]

link to Argus

Live: Closing arguments continue in Constance Marten baby death trial

Closing arguments are set to continue in the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon today

www.theargus.co.uk

 

[Alyce]

3 minutes ago

Prosecution suggests Marten has an ‘upstairs downstairs’ mentality​

Resuming his closing speech, lead prosecutor Tom Little KC tells the jury that questions remain about when baby Victoria was born.

Marten insists she delivered the child unaided in a holiday cottage on Christmas Eve in 2022.
But Mr Little said the infant was not seen by a single witness until 5 January, when van driver Ken Hudson stopped to help after the couple’s car caught fire on the M61, near Bolton.
Mr Hudson told police he had briefly touched Victoria’s head after Marten escaped the burning car, saying words to the effect of “God bless, stay safe”.
Marten denied this in evidence, saying she would never let a “random workman” touch her child.

Mr Little told the jury on Tuesday that this language suggests to him an “upstairs, downstairs mentality” from Marten.

Marten is in the dock wearing a pink blouse alongside Gordon, wearing a blue shirt and tie.

Constance Marten trial: Aristocrat and Gordon carried baby in bag ‘while still alive’

Jurors are hearing the final pieces of evidence before they retire to consider their verdict in manslaughter trial

www.independent.co.uk

 

[bobbymkii]

These have to be the strongest adverse inferences I've ever seen in a trial in E&W in terms of MG not giving evidence.

While I get that the law permits it (linked below), is it really right that the prosecutor can go in this hard on MG's decision not to testify?

Adverse Inferences | The Crown Prosecution Service

www.cps.gov.uk

 

[kittythehare]

These have to be the strongest adverse inferences I've ever seen in a trial in E&W in terms of MG not giving evidence.

While I get that the law permits it (linked below), is it really right that the prosecutor can go in this hard on MG's decision not to testify?

Adverse Inferences | The Crown Prosecution Service

www.cps.gov.uk

I don't think so.
He appears to be struggling..
Like his upstairs downstairs reference to her..

 

[Nikynoo]

These have to be the strongest adverse inferences I've ever seen in a trial in E&W in terms of MG not giving evidence.

While I get that the law permits it (linked below), is it really right that the prosecutor can go in this hard on MG's decision not to testify?

Adverse Inferences | The Crown Prosecution Service

www.cps.gov.uk

In R v Cowan [1996] Q.B. 373, the Court of Appeal expressed approval of the specimen directions issued by the Judicial Studies Board where the Defendant chooses not to give evidence in his or her defence in the Crown Court. The Court highlighted the importance of these steps, prior to a Section 35 adverse inference being drawn:

1. The judge must tell the jury that the burden of proof remains upon the prosecution throughout and what the required standard is.
2. The judge must make clear to the jury that the Defendant has the right to remain silent and that it is his or her choice;
3. An inference from failure to give evidence cannot, on its own, prove guilt;
4. Therefore, the jury must be satisfied that the prosecution have established a case to answer before drawing any inferences from silence. The jury may not believe the witnesses whose evidence the judge considered sufficient to raise a prima facie case; and
5. If, having considered the defence case, the jury concludes that the silence can only sensibly be attributed to the Defendant's having no answer or none that would stand up to cross-examination; they may draw an adverse inference.

Let's see how his defence deals with this.

 

[Alyce]

Marten accused of ‘fantastical’ claims about ‘Mission Impossible style’ private investigators​

Lead prosecutor Mark Little ** says Marten’s claims that she and Gordon were being trailed by private investigators – including fears they had tampered with their car – were “fantastical”.

“The idea that in 2022 and 2023 there was some Mission Impossible style private investigators coming out of the sky from nowhere to detonate vehicles. It’s fantastical. It’s mythical. It didn’t happen,” he told the court.
“Because we know from agreed facts that there were no private investigators in 2022 or 2023.”

The court previously heard that Marten’s mother had instructed investigators for two weeks in 2016.
Meanwhile her father told police he had hired investigators to find her in 2017 and 2021.
However both deny any private investigator was instructed to find her in 2022 or in 2023 – when the couple was on the run.

Constance Marten trial: Aristocrat and Gordon carried baby in bag ‘while still alive’

Jurors are hearing the final pieces of evidence before they retire to consider their verdict in manslaughter trial

www.independent.co.uk

** aka Tom Little

 

[kittythehare]

Marten accused of ‘fantastical’ claims about ‘Mission Impossible style’ private investigators​

Lead prosecutor Mark Little ** says Marten’s claims that she and Gordon were being trailed by private investigators – including fears they had tampered with their car – were “fantastical”.

“The idea that in 2022 and 2023 there was some Mission Impossible style private investigators coming out of the sky from nowhere to detonate vehicles. It’s fantastical. It’s mythical. It didn’t happen,” he told the court.
“Because we know from agreed facts that there were no private investigators in 2022 or 2023.”

The court previously heard that Marten’s mother had instructed investigators for two weeks in 2016.
Meanwhile her father told police he had hired investigators to find her in 2017 and 2021.
However both deny any private investigator was instructed to find her in 2022 or in 2023 – when the couple was on the run.

Constance Marten trial: Aristocrat and Gordon carried baby in bag ‘while still alive’

Jurors are hearing the final pieces of evidence before they retire to consider their verdict in manslaughter trial

www.independent.co.uk

** aka Tom Little

It's quite possible, if not wholly likely that CM actually believed it.
In which case she is more to be pitied than blamed...

 

[jackal67]

I thought the same, but the latest post on the Independent shows the CCTV, and I don't think that there is. I've tried to screenshot but it's clearer on the video itself.View attachment 497319

Constance Marten trial: Baby died at centre of ‘toxic relationship’ jury told - live

Jurors are hearing the final pieces of evidence before they are expected to retire to consider their verdict this week

www.independent.co.uk

Just look at the amount of clothing they are wearing including hats and gloves !! Look at Victoria just a babygro no blanket or liner in buggy either!!!! Unbelievable !!!

 

[Kye Zeeb]

It's quite possible, if not wholly likely that CM actually believed it.
In which case she is more to be pitied than blamed...

It could be reasonable for someone to assume, given that private investigators have been used previously, that the persons who hired them could use them again at any time, whether they were subsequently hired or not. JMO.

 

[Nikynoo]

Prosecution has finished. MG's Barrister is now up.

 

[BackseatDriver]

I'm pretty shocked at the sensationalist language Tom Little is using in his closing speech!
I haven't followed a case this closely before - is it usual for this sort of language to be used?

 

[kittythehare]

I'm pretty shocked at the sensationalist language Tom Little is using in his closing speech!
I haven't followed a case this closely before - is it usual for this sort of language to be used?

No.
Not in my experience.

 

[kittythehare]

John Femi-Ola KC, defending Gordon, will now deliver his closing remarks.
Mr Femi-Ola has criticised the cross examination of Dr Peter Fleming as "brutal, nasty and downright rude".
Mr Femi-Ola is now speaking about Constance Marten and her "deep, deep love for her children".

He added: "She is a strong woman. She is not a person to be pushed around by any man - she has a strong mind of her own."

Source Argus