VERDICT WATCH UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #8

[Alyce]

Central Criminal Court​	5​	T20237104​	constance marten mark alton gordon​
Details: Trial (Part Heard) - Resume - 09:37 Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 00:00 - 09:46 Trial (Part Heard) - Resume - 14:11 Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 14:40 - 14:35 Trial (Part Heard) - Resume - 14:54 Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 15:30 - 15:19

www.thelawpages.com

 

[bobbymkii]

God damn it!
7 minutes ago

Jury sent home to return on Wednesday​

The jury in the Old Bailey trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon, who are accused over the death of their baby, has been sent home.
Judge Mark Lucraft KC told them to return to resume deliberations at 9.30am on Wednesday.
Holly Evans21 May 2024 16:15

Constance Marten trial: Jury retires to consider verdict in baby manslaughter case

Aristocrat and partner Mark Gordon denied killing their newborn Victoria while on the run from authorities

www.independent.co.uk

 

[bbsaz]

Law Pages had legal submissions just after 4pm... What's that about!

 

[Maryanna]

Trying to keep track. Tomorrow will be the jury's 8th day. Their first day was very short.

Various things are said on websites regarding the record, but I found this from 2007:

BBC NEWS | UK | Terrorism case jury sets record

news.bbc.co.uk

^ They received a majority direction on the 21st day of deliberations and were still out on the 24th day. I am not sure how long they took in the end, but they convicted.

 

[BreadnLumpit]

​

Central Criminal Court​	5​	T20237104​	constance marten mark alton gordon​
Details: Trial (Part Heard) - Resume - 09:37 Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 00:00 - 09:46 Trial (Part Heard) - Resume - 14:11 Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 14:40 - 14:35 Trial (Part Heard) - Resume - 14:54 Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 15:30 - 15:19

www.thelawpages.com

It's like the Hokey Cokey!

Still, I suppose we should be grateful that they're in again tomorrow - 3 full days in a row must be some kind of record for this trial.

 

[Yellowbelly]

​

Central Criminal Court​	5​	T20237104​	constance marten mark alton gordon​
Details: Trial (Part Heard) - Resume - 09:37 Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 00:00 - 09:46 Trial (Part Heard) - Resume - 14:11 Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 14:40 - 14:35 Trial (Part Heard) - Resume - 14:54 Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 15:30 - 15:19

www.thelawpages.com

The jury being in and out, in and out of court certainly suggests that "something" is happening. The most obvious "something" being verdicts, like in the Letby trial.

 

[bbsaz]

The jury being in and out, in and out of court certainly suggests that "something" is happening. The most obvious "something" being verdicts, like in the Letby trial.

100% agree

 

[Anastasia101]

Maybe they’re struggling on Marks involvement for GNM?

Playing devils advocate. There are people, especially older males, who still hold the belief that it’s the maternal instinct and responsibility to care for and nurture a newborn baby. (Not saying I personally believe this) Marks background indicates that he may lack the attributes to care for and recognize a newborn’s basic needs. So if Connie said Victoria would be snug, warm and safe in her coat, would he have known to push back against the mother of his child. Or would he have just accepted that she knows best, that it would be safe, no questions asked? So could there be at least one juror who doubts Mark lack the insight to believe V would die while on the run?

The decision not to take the stand left him as an enigma. Perhaps Daddy Bear didn’t want to incriminate his beloved Connie?
No robust defense may turn out to be a great
strategical move.

 

[OrangeCash]

Maybe they’re struggling on Marks involvement for GNM?

Playing devils advocate. There are people, especially older males, who still hold the belief that it’s the maternal instinct and responsibility to care for and nurture a newborn baby. (Not saying I personally believe this) Marks background indicates that he may lack the attributes to care for and recognize a newborn’s basic needs. So if Connie said Victoria would be snug, warm and safe in her coat, would he have known to push back against the mother of his child. Or would he have just accepted that she knows best, that it would be safe, no questions asked? So could there be at least one juror who doubts Mark lack the insight to believe V would die while on the run?

The decision not to take the stand left him as an enigma. Perhaps Daddy Bear didn’t want to incriminate his beloved Connie?
No robust defense may turn out to be a great
strategical move.

I get what you're saying, and can see that being someone's train of thought, but.. Mark, as a grown man, was cold, hungry, tired, his foot rotting(?) or in need of medical care at least.. if he as a grown man is struggling, he knows full well that a newborn in just a baby grow is struggling. I can't see past it at all. A day maybe, but weeks? Nope

Not sure what the outcomes will be. I know what I would be comfortable with but I'm not on the jury

 

[Anastasia101]

I get what you're saying, and can see that being someone's train of thought, but.. Mark, as a grown man, was cold, hungry, tired, his foot rotting(?) or in need of medical care at least.. if he as a grown man is struggling, he knows full well that a newborn in just a baby grow is struggling. I can't see past it at all. A day maybe, but weeks? Nope

Not sure what the outcomes will be. I know what I would be comfortable with but I'm not on the jury

If say the verdicts for the lesser charges are already in, with the most serious outstanding, then perhaps rhe jury are deliberating the GNM charge separately for each defendant? And if that is the case, they are seeing them as separate people rather than a ‘joint-enterprise’ so to speak.

The outcome will be very interesting indeed.

 

[CaptainNancy]

It’s half term next week. Sending decision making vibes to the jury!

 

[Alyce]

Central Criminal Court​	5​	T20237104​	constance marten mark alton gordon​
Details: Trial (Part Heard) - Jury retire to consider verdict - 09:48 Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 00:00 - 09:51

www.thelawpages.com

 

[JennieM]

1 hour ago

Jury resumes deliberations​

The jury has resumed its deliberations in the Old Bailey trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon who deny manslaughter by gross negligence of their baby daughter Victoria

Constance Marten trial: Jury retires to consider verdict in baby manslaughter case

Aristocrat and partner Mark Gordon denied killing their newborn Victoria while on the run from authorities

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Obergine]

So, who wants to place a bet. Will Rishi call the election before the Jury comes back with a verdict? We might even have a new government before we get a verdict.

 

[bbsaz]

According to Law Pages they resumed at 12.10
Assume that means reconvened in the court room as the previous activity was 'jury retires to consider verdict'

 

[crespo29]

Evidence in the case is sparse at best, so if by chance there is a guilty verdict, I would expect an appeal to be quickly posted.

 

[Maltesepuppy]

So, who wants to place a bet. Will Rishi call the election before the Jury comes back with a verdict? We might even have a new government before we get a verdict.

Nah at this rate the government and court system will have been replaced by AI and deliberations will continue in asteroid SF 474936X34

 

[Maryanna]

It’s half term next week. Sending decision making vibes to the jury!

But does the Big Question Asker [*][+] on the jury have children who attend school, and if so will this cause him or her to give up the ghost?

* This is assuming the jurors didn't ask e.g. 15 questions each.
+ It is also assuming the BQA hasn't abstained in all juryroom votes so far, feeling that further discussion is required before they make up their mind.

 

[JennieM]

But does the Big Question Asker [*][+] on the jury have children who attend school, and if so will this cause him or her to give up the ghost?

* This is assuming the jurors didn't ask e.g. 15 questions each.
+ It is also assuming the BQA hasn't abstained in all juryroom votes so far, feeling that further discussion is required before they make up their mind.

I’d rather they ask questions and show that they care than not.

For Victoria’s sake, I am happy they are taking the time they need and asking the questions they need to ask to give her the justice she deserves for her life having been so recklessly taken away.

 

[Maryanna]

I’d rather they ask questions and show that they care than not.

For Victoria’s sake, I am happy they are taking the time they need and asking the questions they need to ask to give her the justice she deserves for her life having been so recklessly taken away.

No jury is monolithic. My guess (only a guess) is that the large majority of the questions were asked by a single person, at a rate of one question every 20 or 30 minutes, which AFAIAA has never happened before in England's entire legal history in such a lengthy trial. That suggests a highly unusual personality. Of course the person has a right to do this, but all rights come with responsibilities, and a person's actions will give an impression of that person to other people with whom they are cooped up in a room tasked with engaging in a cooperative endeavour. That impression may differ from the impression the person has of themself.