GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #12

[Colombo]

Did anyone notice that the original article, regarding JY body being transported over the bridge on the way to be dumped, in the Daily Mail was altered slightly?. The only reason that I picked it up was because I remembered that the word stalker was in the article so I went back and checked and it had been removed.

there has been a large number of amendments, deleting and alterations of various pages concerning this case

like many cases the authorities will amend the facts to fit in with their own version of the story that they wish the public to digest

in a similar way the press will publish articles that attempt to get around any censorship or editorial policies that they may encounter

 

[enzeder]

I found the original article which I had saved at the time I noticed the alteration. Probably doesn't meant much but it did make me wonder why it was altered. The top quoted article is what was originally in the Daily Mail.

Jan 23rd, 2011

Police have been holding dramatic CCTV evidence that they believe shows Miss Yeates’s killer taking her body to be disposed of just hours after she was murdered.

The evidence captures what detectives believe to be the murderer driving over Clifton Suspension Bridge in Bristol the morning after killing landscape architect Miss Yeates, on his way to dumping her body three miles away in a lane in nearby Failand.

The images were caught by cameras on the bridge on December 18, the day after Miss Yeates, 25, vanished. It is understood that Avon and Somerset Police have had the footage for three weeks.

Detectives interviewed the owner of the car earlier this month but eliminated him at that stage.

A source close to the investigation told The Mail on Sunday: ‘The investigation changed dramatically three weeks ago after this new CCTV footage came to light.

‘The discovery of this car driving over the bridge shifted the case’s dynamics. From then on officers were convinced they had found the killer and they believed that Miss Yeates was the victim of a stalker.

‘Before this breakthrough the investigation was close to hitting a brick wall. They had interviewed Miss Yeates’s landlord but nothing materialised from it and there was no concrete evidence linking him in any way to the murder.

‘It appears he had brought himself under suspicion by making a series of comments which now appear to be irrelevant and innocuous. There was no case against him.’

From The Daily Mail, January 23, 2011.

http://morrisonworldnews.com/?p=39152

Last updated at 11:08 PM on 23rd January 2011

Police have been holding dramatic CCTV evidence that they believe shows the car in which they believe Miss Yeates’s body was being taken to be disposed of just hours after she was murdered.

The evidence captures what detectives believe to be the car containing her body being driven over Clifton Suspension Bridge in Bristol the morning after the killing of landscape architect Miss Yeates, on its way to dumping her body three miles away in a lane in nearby Failand.

The images were caught by cameras on the bridge on December 18, the day after Miss Yeates, 25, vanished. It is understood that Avon and Somerset Police have had the footage for three weeks.

Detectives interviewed the owner of the car earlier this month but eliminated him at that stage.

A source close to the investigation told The Mail on Sunday: ‘The investigation changed dramatically three weeks ago after this new CCTV footage came to light.

‘The discovery of this car driving over the bridge shifted the case’s dynamics.

'Before this breakthrough the investigation was close to hitting a brick wall. They had interviewed Miss Yeates’s landlord but nothing materialised from it and there was no concrete evidence linking him in any way to the murder.

‘It appears he had brought himself under suspicion by making a series of comments which now appear to be irrelevant and innocuous. There was no case against him.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...harged-murder-court-Monday.html#ixzz1DK7NHEkx

 

[enzeder]

there has been a large number of amendments, deleting and alterations of various pages concerning this case

like many cases the authorities will amend the facts to fit in with their own version of the story that they wish the public to digest

in a similar way the press will publish articles that attempt to get around any censorship or editorial policies that they may encounter

I also noticed that the original article has the words "murderer" and "killer" in it as well as "stalker".

 

[Colombo]

Is it a fact that the police do not know whose car it was? Only it seems odd to me that someone would report a car to the police without giving the registration number. It is likely to be the first question asked. As the car was stationary there was every opportunity to note the number.

the car was probably reported to either the local council and / or the police as instructed by the CHIS neighbourhood watch

http://www.cliftonhotwells.org.uk/chis_parking.html

it is strange that the car number appeared not have been given

or is the case that it was and the press were told to report that the police were attempting to locate and eliminate the driver because the police and the person who reported it already knew the car and the owners identity?

the report of this was on 11th Jan , when the police had by all accounts ran into a brick wall regarding the investigation......pardon the pun

 

[Cherwell]

I doubt the press were "told to" report it at all. They would as always have been scratching around for a story of some sort, and got whatever they could out of the neighbours, which wasn't much.

Every case has 'leads' like this, most of which, when investigated, turn out to have nothing whatever to do with the crime. We hear no more about them and there's no reason why we should. Other vehicles have been mentioned in this case, and it remains to be seen whether any of them are relevant.

I must say the people who reported a car to the police merely for driving several times up & down a lane make me feel very uneasy! just seems a bit of an over reaction.

 

[Colombo]

I doubt the press were "told to" report it at all. They would as always have been scratching around for a story of some sort, and got whatever they could out of the neighbours, which wasn't much.

Every case has 'leads' like this, most of which, when investigated, turn out to have nothing whatever to do with the crime. We hear no more about them and there's no reason why we should. Other vehicles have been mentioned in this case, and it remains to be seen whether any of them are relevant.

I must say the people who reported a car to the police merely for driving several times up & down a lane make me feel very uneasy! just seems a bit of an over reaction.

its a sad fact of life that the police feed the press and vice versa and as the phone hacking allegations and key players statements show that money often changes hands

the police will tell the press what to print if they need to and will enforce it by refusing to co operate if they don't

to say that a report of a silver car blocking the road outside 44 Canyge Road in the early hours of the 18th is not significant is surely not a statement that matches with the police's vow to leave no stone unturned?


it is surely more significant than

the sighting of the light coloured 4x4 outside the golf club at 11.20pm on 17th

especially as it is now being surmised by many that there is cctv of a car going over the bridge on the morning of the 18th ... a car that had been identified and its driver spoken to and initially eliminated from the enquiry

 

[whitedove]

I remember reading about the Police studying private CCTV footage which shows the area around J/Y Canynge Road home, so they may have found a car on cctv, and then found the same car on Clifton Bridge, it would be very strong evidence.

 

[Myserty64]

Why didn't VT's defence team apply for bail?
If they shared the same doubt as there appears to be in the public domain about their client being the perpetrator surely a bail application would be a given.

 

[angel10510]

what I suspect is that there are too many coincidences in this case for them all to be coincidences!!

I'm sure if you ran it all through a computer or an actuary the chances of all these factors being related must be slim

As I have posted before in the absence of a confession or a plea of diminished responsibilty then as a rational person I have to question the evidence against the man charged

What is clear from reading the numerous boards that exist on this topic is that there are few people who seem to want to accept that the framing of suspects, cover ups and conspiracies have occurred in the British legal system and continue to do so

What is clear is that if the present prime suspect is found guilty rather than the previous one then a large number of people, organisations and vested interests and their respective reputations will breathe a huge sigh of relief!

I'm trying to follow the train of thought here but I seem to be missing some links. Many who are convicted of crimes do not confess, and evidence is often circumstantial. Is the argument here that convictions are necessarily suspect in the absence of confessions or if based upon circumstantial evidence? If confessions are taken as concrete proof, where do those who confess and are convicted but who did not in fact commit the crimes fit in?

I'm also unclear on which people or groups would want to frame, or conspire to frame, suspects in this case. Those with vested interests seem to be the Yeates family and LE. If LE is assumed to want to protect its reputation, wouldn't it be far riskier for LE (especially in light of all the recent controversy over police procedures and tactics) to stage a grand conspiracy to frame someone? If the theory is that someone other than VT committed the murder and therefore would have a vested interest in framing him, whose interests would this be protecting other than the murderer's? Who would breathe a sigh of relief if CJ was not convicted besides CJ?

Apologies for so many questions -- I've been following the threads but I seem to be missing pieces.

 

[whiterum]

I also noticed that the original article has the words "murderer" and "killer" in it as well as "stalker".

Well spotted enzeder! Most likely the reason it was changed is that the legally the actual driver of the car may not be too happy about being accused, as 'the murderer, the mornng after killing, killer, stalker' before it is proven in court. It is interesting that all these references have been removed.

 

[angel10510]

Well spotted enzeder! Most likely the reason it was changed is that the legally the actual driver of the car may not be too happy about being accused, as 'the murderer, the mornng after killing, killer, stalker' before it is proven in court. It is interesting that all these references have been removed.

This sort of updating, correcting, and altering of online sources drives me bananas, including when original errors are subsequently corrected without acknowledgement. Only hardcopies survive intact. If I ruled the internet there always would be links to previous versions of articles or posts, and all corrections/updates/alterations would be acknowledged in the text. Sigh.

 

[naturally suspicious]

I doubt the press were "told to" report it at all. They would as always have been scratching around for a story of some sort, and got whatever they could out of the neighbours, which wasn't much.

Every case has 'leads' like this, most of which, when investigated, turn out to have nothing whatever to do with the crime. We hear no more about them and there's no reason why we should. Other vehicles have been mentioned in this case, and it remains to be seen whether any of them are relevant.

I must say the people who reported a car to the police merely for driving several times up & down a lane make me feel very uneasy! just seems a bit of an over reaction.

interesting you shd say that about scratching around for titbits.

son's girlfriend, who owns her flat 2 doors' away, was telephoned by reporters, wanting her take on the events.

it worried her that they had found her name and telephone number..presumably not directory-listed...

son is, incidentally, an actuary...used to dealing inprobabilities etc...
he has not be scared by the events...

 

[whiterum]

I remember reading about the Police studying private CCTV footage which shows the area around J/Y Canynge Road home, so they may have found a car on cctv, and then found the same car on Clifton Bridge, it would be very strong evidence.

This car must have been found to be connected to VT since he has been charged. They must be confident they have got their man, by cancelling the Crimewatch appeal and do not seem to be appealing for any more information. I would say they have strong evidence against him.

 

[whiterum]

I must say the people who reported a car to the police merely for driving several times up & down a lane make me feel very uneasy! just seems a bit of an over reaction.

I wouldn't have thought that suspicious at the time either, since there were christmas events going on in the area and someone out to pick someone up wasn't sure where the building was. If it was suspicious enough to phone the police why didn't they get the registration number since they saw the same vehicle a number of times.

 

[whiterum]

I'm also unclear on which people or groups would want to frame, or conspire to frame, suspects in this case. Those with vested interests seem to be the Yeates family and LE. If LE is assumed to want to protect its reputation, wouldn't it be far riskier for LE (especially in light of all the recent controversy over police procedures and tactics) to stage a grand conspiracy to frame someone? If the theory is that someone other than VT committed the murder and therefore would have a vested interest in framing him, whose interests would this be protecting other than the murderer's? Who would breathe a sigh of relief if CJ was not convicted besides CJ?

Apologies for so many questions -- I've been following the threads but I seem to be missing pieces.

I do not believe VT was framed at all, because if this came to light the relief for all concerned would be very short lived indeed. I believe the police have significant evidence against VT before the charge and they have got their man. Any relief that some others may feel as regards friends of CJ, is that it is likely they will not have to get up in court and answer any questions regarding his actions, his possible motive, his guilt or innocence.

 

[aneurin]

Quite. If the police were going to pick a fall guy for the murder they'd pick, well, someone like Barry George wouldn't they?

I would agree that A&SC have obtained sufficient evidence to justify a charge of murder against VT, although whether or not they've 'got their man' is a matter for the jury, and the jury alone, to decide in due course. In the circumstances it would seem to be rather a pointless exercise to speculate as to what that evidence might or might not be.

 

[Cherwell]

I wouldn't have thought that suspicious at the time either, since there were christmas events going on in the area and someone out to pick someone up wasn't sure where the building was. If it was suspicious enough to phone the police why didn't they get the registration number since they saw the same vehicle a number of times.

Again - they probably did. Not much point reporting it if they didn't. We have never been given a description of this car, so that suggests it was traced without difficulty.

I doubt if it was connected with the parties, as this was in the daytime, wasn't it? But I do think it is a very odd reaction to call the police over something like that, given that no one knew of the murder at the time. Unless there is something else we haven't been told.

 

[whitedove]

Originally Posted by whitedove
I remember reading about the Police studying private CCTV footage which shows the area around J/Y Canynge Road home, so they may have found a car on cctv, and then found the same car on Clifton Bridge, it would be very strong evidence.


This car must have been found to be connected to VT since he has been charged. They must be confident they have got their man, by cancelling the Crimewatch appeal and do not seem to be appealing for any more information. I would say they have strong evidence against him.

It would be very easy Whiterum, they tested everyone in the pub for D.N.A., so they must also have tested people living in the flats, they find the same car in Canynge road and later on Clifton Bridge, they find the car reg, test the car for D.N.A., test it against all the people they have had tested, and Bingo, they have their man.

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

Hi everyone! Long time, eh? Joined back in the Peterson case in 2003, experienced the big W/S crash, re-signed up ... and years later so many great old hats are still here. I've actually been reading and entering comment at a small wordpress blog. Glued to this case since Sky News first reported Joanna as a MP.

Waving a huge white flag: I've not read the entire thread. Apologies if I repeat anything.

My theory - which is complete speculation, was posted on that same blog a few days ago. Perhaps Jo found a spy-camera in either her bathroom or bedroom. Perhaps when she arrived home that evening, she took off her coat and shoes - opened the cider for a few sips, considered the pizza for dinner and either went to change or went to the loo.

Something caught her eye or her attention, she looked up and spotted the camera; she rushes to her door and VT is knocking and is there already. She opens is (clearly wouldn't know who has the camera at that stage) and his only option is to silence Jo. The pizza somehow became caught up in all of this and it had to be removed for possible DNA evidence. He had an immense reputation at stake; he's a Phd Professional at a huge global company; is from an affluent and highly respected family ... the stakes of what he was up to was way too high a gamble for him.

The attack was, perhaps and IMHO, a rush to her flat by VT, based on extreme panic and fear of discovery. I could think of absolutely NO other reason that a confident, happy, relaxed and cheerful lass we saw on cctv ... was cut down within minutes of arriving home! What on Earth could have been so dramatic or shocking or shameful that caused this lovely young woman's life to stolen from her in virtually nano-seconds after arriving home??

Whatever the reason, it had to have been huge. Mega. A simple pass would not necessarily lead to murder. Who had the most to lose, if such spying was indeed going on? I also believe the cops have the right man - and a great deal more evidence than is out there.

With her door open and VT grabbing her immediately - it indeed may have been Jo's cries of "help me!" that were heard before he muffled her (with the pizza? Was it the nearest object to the door?).

He's s people flow monitor. He watches and studies people for a living. He'd have access to understanding how to set something like this up. With no bail even requested - perhaps his QC could tell from the outset this was too serious an offense to even apply for bail. The shock and shame of realizing these detail would become public may be the reason behind his being placed on suicide watch.

Above is indeed sheer speculation, hypothesis - my opinion - and VT is innocent unless and until proven guilty in a court of law.

Just dropped in for my lil ole :twocents:

Take care, y'all.

Polk :seeya:

 

[naturally suspicious]

This car must have been found to be connected to VT since he has been charged. They must be confident they have got their man, by cancelling the Crimewatch appeal and do not seem to be appealing for any more information. I would say they have strong evidence against him.

that is an intelligent guess at what might have happened...

also whitedove's earlier remarks...great theories both...