GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #15

[otto]

We need a new thread

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7272986#post7272986"]Found Deceased UK Joanna Yeates Clifton, Bristol, 17 December 2010 - #16 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[FiestyFairy]

Personally I'd do that in the bedroom or bathroom if I didn't have a tumble dryer, but yes, a plausible option. Still wouldn't invite anyone unknown to me in the property with knickers lying around though :blushing:

I just checked the video of her flat and can't see any radiators in the hall.

 

[goldielox]

Admin for the Jo Yeates Facebook page was contacted by police a few weeks ago and asked to remove posts which included inside information.

Does anyone here know what that inside information was?

 

[veggiefan]

I just checked the video of her flat and can't see any radiators in the hall.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3868274/Jurors-visit-tragic-Jo-Yeates-flat.html

The radiator is on the wall to the right of the front door.

 

[notsure]

Attempted rape gone wrong. I think he rang the door bell and attacked her around 9pm as per witness testimony of a woman's screams.

I want to know his internet history.
I want to know if anything interesting happened in California.
Have there been unreported or reported incidents of sexual assaults involving him.
Did he stage the flat.
I want to know why he took the pizza. Was the oven really on? Was the pizza in the oven? Only 7-9 mins to heat the pizza. Did it even make it to the oven.
I want to know how he had the means to get in and out of JY's flat to remove her body and later the pizza and sock. Did he have the foresight to unlock the door before he left the first time.
What in heavens name was he doing with a dead body in his flat for 30-45 mins, if we go by NL's timeline.
So many more questions.

I hope we don't have to endure character witnesses tomorrow.

I have been thinking that some of these issues will come out after the trial. I can imagine women coming forward with accounts of "encounters" with him. Would the average person in the USA even be aware of this case though? It is reported on the UK news, but it is by no means the top story of the day.

He was in the USA for several weeks, wasn't he? Considering the fact that he had no qualms about being unfaithful to TM, I think it unlikely that he didn't attempt to get some female company whilst over there. I mean, he was bored and "at a loose end" at the very beginning of just one evening apart from his girlfriend on the night of the attack.

This whole inept approach to making a pass at a woman: I can well believe that he deluded himself that he was God's gift to women. I've seen it happen before - a fairly unattractive, charmless guy who has no success with women, who suddenly manages to get a girlfriend. The boost in confidence is amazing to behold. He suddenly has this feeling that if one woman fancies him, all others will too; in fact they're all longing to be kissed by him. It's very weird, but I've seen it happen.

In VT's case it's that massive ego that caused this to happen and that massive ego that cannot bear people to think badly of him. He will never tell the truth.

 

[KMP09]

Hi all

I'm new to WS

Now i've been interested in this case since Jo had first gone missing, it then turned into a mystery profiled case when Jo was believed to be abducted.

When CJ the Landlord was then falsely accused of Jo's murder, Tabak was in his flat preparing a course of action to get him off as the next suspect.

Since VT was then rightfully accused and then taken into custody we are now looking at his defence in court, a bored young man on the night of Jo's murder he had made it clear to his then girlfriend TM that he hoped she was having a better time at her Christmas staff party, while he brooded at home all alone with his pizza and beer.

After hearing all the courts evidence so far i'm still confused with a few thing about VT story on that night, he said in his statement that when Jo asked him into her flat she offered him some pizza and a cider, then he goes on too say in his statement he refused the drink because he was driving later to pick up his girlfriend even though he had said he was drinking beer earlier on? Abit of a contadiction there from VT.

Also his time scale of events don't match the time of screams witnessed earlier about 8.40pm, i would imagine that if he had been in his flat around 7pm then how would he of known Jo was home at 8.40pm as her entrance too her flat is on the other side of the building, i would suspect he was hanging around outside maybe waiting for her return then he might of grabbed her from behind as she was entering her front door.

I believe that he attacked her straight away after seeing her return, as Mr Lickley as stated on the pretext of using her cat as a way of introducing himself, but i think it was more of him being angry and he wanted a confrontation with Jo about her cat wandering into his flat again.

I say this because i have seen major domestic arguments among neighbors just over silly petty stuff, sometimes even escalating into a serious injury, i think there was some contention between the two neighbors but not yet been brought up as evidence.

I think VT is using the flirtation and kiss between Jo and him as an excuse to hide his inner angry feelings towards her in court, as evidence have now shown there wasn't a direct sexual assault on Jo's body although it wasn't ruled out, just the brutal violence of strangulation, bruising on her wrists, body and fractured nose.

 

[notsure]

:greetings: KMP09 and :welcome5:

 

[Sammyme]

Attempted rape gone wrong. I think he rang the door bell and attacked her around 9pm as per witness testimony of a woman's screams.

I want to know his internet history.
I want to know if anything interesting happened in California.
Have there been unreported or reported incidents of sexual assaults involving him.
Did he stage the flat.
I want to know why he took the pizza. Was the oven really on? Was the pizza in the oven? Only 7-9 mins to heat the pizza. Did it even make it to the oven.
I want to know how he had the means to get in and out of JY's flat to remove her body and later the pizza and sock. Did he have the foresight to unlock the door before he left the first time.
What in heavens name was he doing with a dead body in his flat for 30-45 mins, if we go by NL's timeline.
So many more questions.

I hope we don't have to endure character witnesses tomorrow.

Yes, I agree with you in thinking that the woman heard the screams shortly after Joanna got home and that is when she was killed. The oven was probably on. Joanna hadn't eaten so far as we know since lunch with Greg - around 1 pm? - but had had some cider in the pub so I would think she would be hungry and would start dinner as soon as she got home. He was asked how he got back into the flat and whether he had left it open, to which he answered Yes.

I had been thinking about his trip to California too. Not so much about whether something specific happened there but whether having been to California had wrought some change in him which he discovered after he came home. Maybe it made him feel more expansive, outgoing and daring, with a sense of restlessness and a yen for excitement, newness and something different from the familiar.

 

[Fluttershy]

Welcome KMP09!

Skynewsgatherer on Twitter is reporting that the trial has been delayed this morning. Not saying why.

 

[notsure]

Yes, I agree with you in thinking that the woman heard the screams shortly after Joanna got home and that is when she was killed. The oven was probably on. Joanna hadn't eaten so far as we know since lunch with Greg - around 1 pm? - but had had some cider in the pub so I would think she would be hungry and would start dinner as soon as she got home. He was asked how he got back into the flat and whether he had left it open, to which he answered Yes.

I had been thinking about his trip to California too. Not so much about whether something specific happened there but whether having been to California had wrought some change in him which he discovered after he came home. Maybe it made him feel more expansive, outgoing and daring, with a sense of restlessness and a yen for excitement, newness and something different from the familiar.

That's a very good point, Sammyme. I can relate to that: it reminds me of when, after spending a year in Paris as a student of French, it seemed really boring when I got back to the UK. In Paris, it had been a whirl of social activity, and it made me more outgoing for a while. Yes, I can certainly see that a taste of California life would change someone's behaviour, at least temporarily.

 

[Fluttershy]

Evansma on twitter:

Resumption of #JoYeates murder trial has been delayed while a point of law is discussed.

Does not know which point of law.

 

[Fluttershy]

@jonkay01 via twitter

Legal discussion in Tabak trial. Jury won't be hearing any evidence until 1230.

 

[Sammyme]

That's a very good point, Sammyme. I can relate to that: it reminds me of when, after spending a year in Paris as a student of French, it seemed really boring when I got back to the UK. In Paris, it had been a whirl of social activity, and it made me more outgoing for a while. Yes, I can certainly see that a taste of California life would change someone's behaviour, at least temporarily.

It's interesting how travel changes you isn't it? A year in Paris when young would be unforgettable. I too travelled in Europe when I was a student and post-student but then I went to America for several months. I found American life and way of doing things and seeing the world very different and that showed me myself and my own life in a way I had not seen before. Coming back can make everything seem small and confining at first.

Anyway, I was wondering if it might have made VT more likely to approach neighbours in an easy social manner that he wouldn't have done before.

 

[Sammyme]

I have been thinking that some of these issues will come out after the trial. I can imagine women coming forward with accounts of "encounters" with him. Would the average person in the USA even be aware of this case though? It is reported on the UK news, but it is by no means the top story of the day.

He was in the USA for several weeks, wasn't he? Considering the fact that he had no qualms about being unfaithful to TM, I think it unlikely that he didn't attempt to get some female company whilst over there. I mean, he was bored and "at a loose end" at the very beginning of just one evening apart from his girlfriend on the night of the attack.

This whole inept approach to making a pass at a woman: I can well believe that he deluded himself that he was God's gift to women. I've seen it happen before - a fairly unattractive, charmless guy who has no success with women, who suddenly manages to get a girlfriend. The boost in confidence is amazing to behold. He suddenly has this feeling that if one woman fancies him, all others will too; in fact they're all longing to be kissed by him. It's very weird, but I've seen it happen.

In VT's case it's that massive ego that caused this to happen and that massive ego that cannot bear people to think badly of him. He will never tell the truth.

That's an acute observation. It's ironic really that we will think worse of him for his lies and dissembling than if he had confessed to the crime in the first place, sent for help, told the truth, accepted the consequences and shown remorse. Truth hasn't got a chance if concealment is a longstanding habit with him that has become second nature. Maybe he cannot bear for people, including himself, to know him as he is.

 

[notsure]

It's interesting how travel changes you isn't it? A year in Paris when young would be unforgettable. I too travelled in Europe when I was a student and post-student but then I went to America for several months. I found American life and way of doing things and seeing the world very different and that showed me myself and my own life in a way I had not seen before. Coming back can make everything seem small and confining at first.

Anyway, I was wondering if it might have made VT more likely to approach neighbours in an easy social manner that he wouldn't have done before.

Yes, I think it would. Now you have reminded me of it, I remember embarrassing myself a couple of times when I tried to transfer my newly acquired Parisian ways back home. I had fewer inhibitions about approaching people, but I didn't try to kiss them.

 

[SynthSparkles]

@skynewsgatherer
Neighbour describes how the flats are very quiet.
Case for the defence in the trial of Vincent Tabak has now concluded.
Jury told they will hear closing speeches tomorrow.
Jury now hearing statement from neighbour who lives in top floor flat 6, of Canynge Road.
Jury sent home for the day - back tomorrow for closing speeches.

@rupertevelyn
Court being read a statement from Mr Hardyman who lives at Flat 6, 44 canynge rd, clifton. top floor flat.
Hardyman has lived there for 20 years. he was aware that greg and Jo were living in the building. he'd met them on about 3 occasions
Hardyman had had a conversation with Joanna about her cat while working in the garden.
on Dec 17th, Hardyman went to bed and wasn't disturbed at all. 'i was unaware of anything out of the ordinary outside my flat'
Bill Clegg says 'my lord that concludes the case for the defence'. Jury being sent home for the day and asked to come back 1030 tomorrow

 

[edgedweller]

new thread here:
Found Deceased UK Joanna Yeates Clifton, Bristol, 17 December 2010 - #16 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[konformation]

EXACTLY! This is my point, he must have come into contact with both the box and the pizza IMO otherwise he would have turned the oven off and left! Not like he tidied up the whole flat before he left ( from what we have read). He left her phone there too which suggests to me that the entire thing happened VERY quickly and he got out of there sharpish.

I mentioned previously that as JY's keys etc., were found in her rucksack, VT must have tidied and 'staged' the flat scene before he left. For me the amount of time spent in JY's flat was probably quite a long time, considering we don't know for sure that timeline.

 

[bos]

OK I've worked out how it was done.

What you do is this. You take one female victim, you take hold of her wrists, and force them above her head as you push her back against a wall. You can then use your arms to pin her arms against the wall, leaving both your hands free; one of which you can place on her mouth, and the other against her throat. If at the same time, you place your body at right angles to hers and thrust one knee between her legs, you can pin her lower body against the wall. She can then kick as much as she likes, but she can't make contact, and she can't move her arms, because you're using your entire body weight to pin them to the wall. And of course, all you need is 20 seconds worth of pressure to finish her off.

Now you're going to leave grip marks on her wrists, and it's possible, during the intitial struggle as you grapple with her wrists, that you might give her face a bash and give her a nose bleed, whilst she might well end up with other bruises and marks on her body, but most importantly she can't scratch or kick you, so she can't really injure or mark you. Which is a very good thing if you intend being seen in public soon afterwards. After you've popped home and changed naturally - you don't want to be seen with any blood on your shirt after all.

Now I've tried this and it works. OK, I left out the bloody nose bit. And the actual throttling to death bit as well, now that you come to mention it. There are limits to experimentation. But it does work, and it would appear to me to be a very effective method of homicide. However, I'm not sure how you'd come across it by accident.

This one?