GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #2

[scottybail]

did any of them look like this ?

http://www.exposay.com/celebrity-ph...onference-for-the-portuguese-media-OGKM4v.jpg


:floorlaugh:

Luna you naughty sausage!

 

[Luna15]

Luna you naughty sausage!

You're right; I mustn't abuse our host's hospitality.

:ashamed:

 

[Sgt Jones]

Luna you naughty sausage!

I know it's off topic but I don't like the look in Mrs McCann's eyes...

Quite frightening.

 

[Sgt Jones]

The comments section here throws up some interesting points:

http://blogs.news.sky.com/lifeofcrime/Post:23920168-3a62-483c-a8bd-fa05742a0856

 

[Snoopster]

Police said the landscape architect was killed with a ligature.

I don't recall seeing this previously, either. (Admittedly I haven't had the time to stay right on top of this case.) I do recall reading in one article that. paraphrasing, "she died of compression on her neck, not by a ligature".

Does this recent article base the ligature comment on the report that she may have been strangled with her sock?

 

[Sgt Jones]

I don't recall seeing this previously, either. (Admittedly I haven't had the time to stay right on top of this case.) I do recall reading in one article that. paraphrasing, "she died of compression on her neck, not by a ligature".

Does this recent article base the ligature comment on the report that she may have been strangled with her sock?

Not sure Snoop, might be an error by the paper but I also saw the bit where it said no ligature was used.

Other thing I read was Jo's body was removed using a winch belonging to the fire brigade.

Why?

She was small and petite - why use a winch?

Was her body so heavy from being frozen?

 

[naturally suspicious]

Yes you are right about the snow sports and evidence bag referring to the skis.

Anyone else find it odd for two grown men - at the time of the pics being taken, one aged 40 and the other 55, toboganning?

I do - teenagers, kids, parents with kids doesn't seem odd but this does.

This might well be the connection - would depend if there was enough snow to do this on Dec 17th but if there was, I can see a tipsy Jo doing it for a bit of fun. She like snow boarding as there are pics of her.

I have always thought it's the LL but I also found Laurence Penney a bit odd when he said he thought she had "absconded."

Absconded means to "run away." Why would he think Jo would run away? If she was a teenage girl still living with parents then yes I can see why you would think she would run away but she was a grown woman with a b/f, a job and a home.

Strange thing to say.

agree wholeheartedly...seems like a bunch of batchelor weirdos.
a woman wd never think jo had "absconded"...very strange word.

 

[slug]

Not sure Snoop, might be an error by the paper but I also saw the bit where it said no ligature was used.

Other thing I read was Jo's body was removed using a winch belonging to the fire brigade.

Why?

She was small and petite - why use a winch?

Was her body so heavy from being frozen?

I'm thinking that maybe they used a winch to try and not disturb the ground
Under her to look for evidence and that being so frozen might have made it
Harder for them to lift safely

 

[Nausicaa]

A few quick remarks :

1. I think that "ligature" is technically used to mean any flexible tool used for strangulation - anything other than hands or rigid articles. In this sense if someone is strangled with a sock, the sock is termed a ligature. But personally I don't buy the sock as the murder weapon as it would make the task harder than need be.

2. I have been taking certain points as factual though they have not been directly stated : she was wearing the same clothes, her mobile did not indicate any outgoing activity after 9 pm on Friday. My reasoning is simply that if she had been wearing different clothes, or had made a call or sent a text later than that, this would completely exclude certain possibilities which the police seem not to have excluded.

3. I am now becoming more hesitant to assume anything at all. For instance, we know that Joanna bought two smallish bottles of cider, and we were told that they found one of these bottles half empty inside the flat. I have been taking it for granted that the other bottle had therefore disappeared along with the pizza. But I now see in the press the more guarded statement that at least one half-empty bottle was found in the flat. Perhaps they also found the other bottle, still full, or empty, and have not mentioned this.

4. In any event, the cider is good proof that Joanna reached home (unless it was a different bottle that she had bought previously). But I am surprised that little attention has been paid to her decision to buy two smallish bottles rather than one full size one. Does this not suggest that she was expecting to meet someone ?

 

[laurauk1]

Quite often i have worn the same top/bottoms twice before putting them in the wash, especially a nice warm jumper - whats wrong with that ??

My point exactly! The events could have happened on the Saturday or Sunday. Until we really know how long she had been dead for before she was found then the chance to rule out the endless scenarios will not occur.

By clothing do the police also mean underwear though? It wouldn't be that odd for a woman to wear the same jumper 2 or 3 days running - especially if it was a nice warm one and the weather was cold. However if she was wearing the same underwear, this would be unlikely.

Yes you are right about the snow sports and evidence bag referring to the skis.

Anyone else find it odd for two grown men - at the time of the pics being taken, one aged 40 and the other 55, toboganning?

I do - teenagers, kids, parents with kids doesn't seem odd but this does.

This might well be the connection - would depend if there was enough snow to do this on Dec 17th but if there was, I can see a tipsy Jo doing it for a bit of fun. She like snow boarding as there are pics of her.

I have always thought it's the LL but I also found Laurence Penney a bit odd when he said he thought she had "absconded."

Absconded means to "run away." Why would he think Jo would run away? If she was a teenage girl still living with parents then yes I can see why you would think she would run away but she was a grown woman with a b/f, a job and a home.

Strange thing to say.

It does at first glance seem odd, especially given their age. However, remember decent snow in the UK is still something of a novelty here. I know plenty of people in their 20 or 30s who have photographs up on Facebook of them sledging or building snowmen over the past two years snow.

 

[Cadfael]

4. In any event, the cider is good proof that Joanna reached home (unless it was a different bottle that she had bought previously). But I am surprised that little attention has been paid to her decision to buy two smallish bottles rather than one full size one. Does this not suggest that she was expecting to meet someone ?

I have thought about this and at first i thought it definitely suggested that she was meeting someone, however as my boyfriend pointed out, I very rarely buy one bottle, just for myself. I will often buy 2 or even 3 and depending in which shop i am in some have a policy when paying on credit debit card that you have to spend a minimum amount in which to purchase the goods. Many shops such as bargain booze also do deals, for instance, '2 bottles for £10', she may have bought two in a deal or to drink at another night. Something does tell me however that she was expecting company at some point in the evening, but so many press reports conflict i am dubious as to what is fact and what is hearsay, as i am myself getting confused!!

 

[MMENJBRIT]

I had posted a few days ago that there was a link to Mr. Hardyman (top floor flat Canynge Rd) and Glenis Caruthers... (the 20 yr old who was strangled in Clifton in 1974) My sister had read it in the Sunday Papers... then we both spent hours trying to find it and it had vanished. Here it is in today's Daily Telegraph.

Joanna Yeates murder: relatives of 1974 victim say killer could be same
The family of a student who was murdered close to where Joanna Yeates was strangled said they believe both women could have been victims of the same killer.



“Glenis was killed more than 30 years ago but the two cases do seem very similar.”
Miss Carruthers’ sister Deidre Newley, 69, said: “We’re aware that the police are looking into the two cases together but it’s just too early to say anything yet. We can only wait and see what they find.
“It’s impossible for us to speculate on whether the two cases are linked but clearly there are some similarities.”

Miss Carruthers, who was studying to be a teacher, was found dead just outside Bristol zoo on Jan 19, 1974, after a zookeeper disturbed her killer, who was described as 5ft 10 ins tall, aged in his 20s and with “a great deal of hair” down to his collar.

She had been a guest at the 21st birthday party of her friend Sandra Hardyman, and had been due to spend the night at her home when she left the party unnoticed, possibly to make a call from a nearby phone box.

In a bizarre twist of fate, Geoffrey Hardyman, who is Sandra Hardyman’s first cousin once removed, now lives above Joanna Yeates’s flat, which is around 350 yards from where the party was taking place.

He has been a vocal supporter of his friend and former colleague Christopher Jefferies, Miss Yeates’s landlord, who also lives in the same building and is currently the only person to be arrested on suspicion of murdering the architect.
Earlier this week Mr Hardyman, 78, a retired classics master at Clifton College, suggested that Mr Jefferies had been “pounced on” by the police because they were under pressure to make an arrest in the “high profile” case.
More than 16,000 people were interviewed by police as part of the Glenis Carruthers investigation. Avon and Somerset Police said Mr Jefferies, who had just started his job as an English master at Clifton College at the time, was not among them.

 

[ruined detroit]

I would have thought with a stanger killing or if the police are truly unsure they would have posed a reconstruction tonight. 3 weeks since she disappeared. Or maybe they are waiting until next week when it is pretty much gusranteed most folk are back from their Christmas/New Year holidays.

Either that or they suspect all too well the killer is close to home.

It is sad thinking she is still in the morgue and the family cannot bury her as yet. It's a lonely scene.

 

[Niff]

A
4. In any event, the cider is good proof that Joanna reached home (unless it was a different bottle that she had bought previously). But I am surprised that little attention has been paid to her decision to buy two smallish bottles rather than one full size one. Does this not suggest that she was expecting to meet someone ?

Not at all. Good cider ONLY comes in small 500ml bottles. You can only get the rubbish strongbow etc in large bottles, and she doesn't strike me as the type who would buy that. I only ever buy small bottles, and will buy a couple at a time.

 

[Patticake]

A few quick remarks :

3. I am now becoming more hesitant to assume anything at all. For instance, we know that Joanna bought two smallish bottles of cider, and we were told that they found one of these bottles half empty inside the flat. I have been taking it for granted that the other bottle had therefore disappeared along with the pizza. But I now see in the press the more guarded statement that at least one half-empty bottle was found in the flat. Perhaps they also found the other bottle, still full, or empty, and have not mentioned this.

4. In any event, the cider is good proof that Joanna reached home (unless it was a different bottle that she had bought previously). But I am surprised that little attention has been paid to her decision to buy two smallish bottles rather than one full size one. Does this not suggest that she was expecting to meet someone ?

Actually, I asked a couple of questions about cider of those in the UK a couple of days back. No one from the UK responded.

So, for the US contingent, here are photos of cider:

http://www.google.com/images?client...&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1240&bih=634

Even though it is uncommon here, it looks like cider is somewhat like buying a bottle of beer.


..

 

[laurauk1]

Actually, I asked a couple of questions about cider of those in the UK a couple of days back. No one from the UK responded.

So, for the US contingent, here are photos of cider:

http://www.google.com/images?client...&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1240&bih=634

Even though it is uncommon here, it looks like cider is somewhat like buying a bottle of beer.


..

Sorry if UK lot missed your question. What was it exactly?

Brands to look up if you want to get an idea of the type of cider that is quite fashionable over here is:

- Brothers
- St Helier
- Jacques
- Kopparberg
- Magners (although this has had its time - it was more fashionable about 5 years ago)

I have assumed that is a bottle similar to those. I know that the Brothers brand is from the West Country and is popular with a lot of my friends who live in the Bristol.

 

[Patticake]

Sorry if UK lot missed your question. What was it exactly?

Brands to look up if you want to get an idea of the type of cider that is quite fashionable over here is:

- Brothers
- St Helier
- Jacques
- Kopparberg
- Magners (although this has had its time - it was more fashionable about 5 years ago)

I have assumed that is a bottle similar to those. I know that the Brothers brand is from the West Country and is popular with a lot of my friends who live in the Bristol.

Hi, LauraUK1,

The question only had to do with the possibility of Joanne's DNA being on the bottle at her flat. Cider is not really sold here [as far as I know].

It was said that JY bought two bottles of cider. I envisioned 2 small flasks and wondered if it would have necessitated getting glasses to drink it. But it appears to be like buying a bottle or beer, or a soft drink, which easily would be enjoyed by one.

Thanks and good morning!

..

 

[Niff]

Yep, you could pour it into a glass, or you could just drink from the bottle.

 

[mikeymot]

I would have thought with a stanger killing or if the police are truly unsure they would have posed a reconstruction tonight. 3 weeks since she disappeared. Or maybe they are waiting until next week when it is pretty much gusranteed most folk are back from their Christmas/New Year holidays.

Either that or they suspect all too well the killer is close to home.

It is sad thinking she is still in the morgue and the family cannot bury her as yet. It's a lonely scene.

I agree with you that the family must be suffering terribly, not being able to bury their child. I also agree that the police probably already have a suspect (or two) in their sights.

I'm not quite sure what to think anymore...did have numerous theories, first of which was the B/F...having witnesses to the time he should have left Bristol ...decided not to travel alone..maybe rang Jo, asked her to pick up a pizza and drinks and arranged to pick her up. For whatever reason, they argue and Jo dies. He decides to continue to Sheffield, with Jo hidden in the car...arrives a little late in Sheffield..visits and returns on Sunday. From the Motorway there is a back route which would take him near where her body was found. Jos' body is dumped but he takes her coat, bag, keys, drinks and boots to place back in the flat...whilst removing the boots, one sock stays inside the boot but in his haste and in darkness[he doesn't realise until he gets back to the flat, disposes of the sock..maybe by wearing it? The pizza has been squashed in the struggle so he just dumps it...maybe from the car window on his way back (over the second bridge crossing to Clifton). He arrives back at the flat...with his bag containing Jos' belongings..which would not attract interest as he had just returned from a trip...sets the scene in the flat...maybe has a glass of cider..composes himself and eventually reports her missing.? Only started to suspect him because of his appearance at the appeal for news of Jo. For an outdoor pursuits enthusiast he seemed to be more in mourning...than searching for a missing person.

Second theory is that the the two oddball 'snowmates' next door are part of a paedophile ring which used to meet in Jo's flat (when the previous tenant, now in prison) was still living there. Maybe Jo saw or heard something which would expose them all and was silenced because of it? her body could probably have been taken through the hedge into the neighbours garden and quietly put in their car to dispose of later?

With all the 'drip' information that the police keep giving us..I suspect they have a very good idea of what happened but proving it.....that is what is taking all the time. I really hope the B/F is innocent...if only for Jos' parents sake...they have demonstrated great fortitude and dignity and I just hope that this case is solved very soon.

Sorry all....got carried away and forgot to say HELLO....find this site and your comments fascinatingI]

 

[whitedove]

I'm thinking that maybe they used a winch to try and not disturb the ground
Under her to look for evidence and that being so frozen might have made it
Harder for them to lift safely

I expect they used a winch as the body was frozen solid to the ground, I tried to move a plant pot in my garden, it was rock hard, I tried pouring boiling water under it, but still would'nt move, gave up in the end, if a small pot can be so hard to move, it would be very hard to move a body.