Found Deceased UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest* #3

[Bampot]

I totally agree piggy.

I am of the thinking now though, that the family may have helped destroy evidence and with his prepared statement.

 

[jellymummy]

It’s suggested on here in quite a few posts that the lad is being manipulated by his family or friends to protect and/or take the rap for someone else. That supposition fails for me because people on the autism spectrum tend not to be good liars either to others or themselves. His parents will certainly know this and I can’t see them being safe or secure in hiding behind his selective mutism if they were involved from the beginning.

Do we know for sure he has a definitive diagnosis of autism? Or if he is “mute”? We haven’t had sight of any medical reports nor has it been said he Specifically is mute. I think autism was referred to but not in any great detail. He may not be academically very bright but I bet he sure as hell is streetwise and quite savvy as he will have been guided and taught to look after himself and do what he needs to do in life by his community, after all their culture is very different to us non travellers and they are tough, fearless and are loyal to the death with their own. I would imagine that he’s capable of doing some of the stuff he’s been accused of and has some ability to plan, lie and generally be a bit dodgy due to the toing and froing and dry runs etc. I don’t think he’s as dim as he may be trying to appear.

 

[Nimas]

Hi jellymummy. We can't post anything on the public threads that isn't in mainstream news. Thanks for asking first!

Thanks - I’ve actually been a member of websleuths for years and have always just been a lurker but because I live in the town where this murder has taken place I’m obviously very interested and have followed the case since she disappeared last year. I won’t say what I know don’t worry. But it’s not exciting anyway.

Hi jellymummy, I'm from Accrington too, live a stones throw from LB, absolutely baffled by this whole case.

 

[Bampot]

I'm just glad, for all you local people especially, that this lad is not back out on the streets

 

[MusicalMonkey]

Re fair trial - recent trial ( followed on here ) Emile Cilliers. Made several attempts to kill his wife - worst one being the sabotaged parachute. His first trial was a complete nightmare when the Jury went out. They were struggling to reach a verdict, then people were leaving the Jury, due to holidays and there were claims of bullying within the group. In the end they had only 9 left and told Judge they could not reach agreement, so a mistrial was declared.
But, a new trial was held, same venue, and second Jury reached a guilty verdict in short time.
So it can be done at the same venue with new jurors without the worry that everyone has heard of the case.

Why don't they just use this site to get some jurors.

 

[GoldenFlower]

Hi, sorry been Ill so not been able to post lately.

I don’t think he’s has dim as he’s being made out either, he may have some learning disabilities but he knew what he was doing.

I certainly don’t believe the “hooded stranger”. For me there’s on,y 2 scenarios....he did it or someone very close who he is afraid of did it....my feelings though are he is the killer.

I think he went home after the deed and got the rucksack to stash all her belongings in it. I think the trainers were cut up to try fit them in that rucksack, when they wouldn’t fit in he put them in a plastic bag and placed them in the bin with her body.

I haven’t seen anything stating a rucksack was recovered, maybe I’ve missed that.

I have a theory with the dna only on one glove...the gloves he may have only put on to collect vegetation to cover the body, has he’s been doing that his left hand may have touched the body transferring some dna?


The saw I think was taken to the cemetery in case he needed to cut down branches to help conceal her.

would be interesting however to find out what would cause this dismissal of the jury and retrial....it’s all been a complete farce so far...

IMO...

 

[Legally Bland]

Do we know for sure he has a definitive diagnosis of autism? Or if he is “mute”? We haven’t had sight of any medical reports nor has it been said he Specifically is mute. I think autism was referred to but not in any great detail. He may not be academically very bright but I bet he sure as hell is streetwise and quite savvy as he will have been guided and taught to look after himself and do what he needs to do in life by his community, after all their culture is very different to us non travellers and they are tough, fearless and are loyal to the death with their own. I would imagine that he’s capable of doing some of the stuff he’s been accused of and has some ability to plan, lie and generally be a bit dodgy due to the toing and froing and dry runs etc. I don’t think he’s as dim as he may be trying to appear.

ADHD and ASD have been mentioned, but I think this is all we have in terms of a professional diagnosis:

Mr Fenhalls told the court that the defendant is 'very literal in his understanding of spoken language' and a psychologist report concluded that he had 'limited understanding of his own emotions and his own emotional well-being' and also 'appears to have little insight into the connections between events and emotions'.​

Headteacher who taught Lindsay Birbeck defendant gives evidence

 

[Bampot]

Sorry to be pedantic but adhd, on the autistic spectrum or learning difficulties does not = dim. Dim is the wrong word to use

 

[Mommysleuth11]

Also like to point out that all Autistic people are different to one and other. As much as being unable to lie may be a common trait for *some* autistic people, others may lie constantly and not necessarily even see it as lying. The funny thing with the autism spectrum is (in my own experience) whatever behaviour you may associate with Autism, flip it completely on its head and the opposite is generally also true.
Ie autistic people can stuggle with eye contact but that can be avoidance or overly seeking.

Im by no means a professional but i do have experience of lots of different autistic children.

 

[GoldenFlower]

Sorry...i didn’t mean to offend and apologise if I have offended you or anyone else...it was just a termination in agreement with another poster of not being academically bright.

 

[jellymummy]

Sorry to be pedantic but adhd, on the autistic spectrum or learning difficulties does not = dim. Dim is the wrong word to use

You are totally correct - what I was meaning was that he may be using these disabilities / difficulties to APPEAR "dim", or his family or appropriate adult may be attempting to use it to the defendant's advantage, but in retrospect that was the wrong word to use and it wasn't meant to sound like people with those difficulties are stupid or unintelligent. I was attempting to demonstrate that he or the family may be able to use it as a tool to make it easier for him to say very little so he wasn't interrogated too harshly etc.

 

[J4k]

Hi, sorry been Ill so not been able to post lately.

I don’t think he’s has dim as he’s being made out either, he may have some learning disabilities but he knew what he was doing.

I certainly don’t believe the “hooded stranger”. For me there’s on,y 2 scenarios....he did it or someone very close who he is afraid of did it....my feelings though are he is the killer.

I think he went home after the deed and got the rucksack to stash all her belongings in it. I think the trainers were cut up to try fit them in that rucksack, when they wouldn’t fit in he put them in a plastic bag and placed them in the bin with her body.

I haven’t seen anything stating a rucksack was recovered, maybe I’ve missed that.

I have a theory with the dna only on one glove...the gloves he may have only put on to collect vegetation to cover the body, has he’s been doing that his left hand may have touched the body transferring some dna?


The saw I think was taken to the cemetery in case he needed to cut down branches to help conceal her.

would be interesting however to find out what would cause this dismissal of the jury and retrial....it’s all been a complete farce so far...

IMO...

I am with you throughout this,
when I first saw his pics on cctv i thought "no way !!, he definately had help with this", but all the sightings of him popping in & out of the coppice between the 12th and the 17th and how it all fits in with the witness statements & the lack of anyone else appearing in any of this .... changed my mind, he may have had help afterwards, but I think he was looking to commit this crime on this day ZB was lucky and if it hadn't been poor LB it would've been someone else.

my theory on the left handed glove is more gruesome
(I think she may have been bigger than the place he was trying to hide her)
so used the saw in his right hand and steadied her leg in his left hand, there is no blood been found anywhere else & the bin was clean, so this must've happened at this scene. When he wasn't able to do this, he then hide her with vegetation (grass cuttings etc) which could be why they were trying to find the person with the lawn mower, to find when they last cut the grass.

 

[Bampot]

Is the defendant the only kid without a mobile phone? Could his parents have simply said he doesn't have a mobile and therefore....they didn't look for phone forensics?

 

[PiggyStardust]

This seems to marry up with the evidence his headmistress gave.

Selective Mutism - Anxiety UK
Extract:

As well as finding it hard to talk, you may also find it hard to make eye contact or feel frozen and unable to move when people are talking to you or when you are expected to talk to others. This could be something that you have always had trouble with or it could have started to happen recently. Either way, it is your body’s way of saying “I am not happy and I feel uncomfortable”. You may have begun to notice that your behaviour is different to that of the other people in your class. Don’t worry. Many young people feel this way and you may find that things get better with time.

• Are you unable to speak in certain places such as at school but find it easy to talk at home?
• Are you able to talk to people you are comfortable with such as parents?
• Do you find it hard to make eye contact with people that you don’t feel comfortable with such as teachers?
• Can you understand what they are saying but you are unable to respond?

If you can answer “yes” to any of the above questions, you may be experiencing selective mutism.

 

[Legally Bland]

Is the defendant the only kid without a mobile phone? Could his parents have simply said he doesn't have a mobile and therefore....they didn't look for phone forensics?

He had a phone, no idea if it was a smart phone or not:

12:44
Defendant's home searched
Mr McLachlan told the jury that the defendant’s phone was searched.​

Lindsay Birbeck murder trial at Preston Crown Court - updates

(Need to keep scrolling to get to that bit, there's no more info on the phone though.)

 

[JosieJo]

He had a phone, no idea if it was a smart phone or not:

12:44
Defendant's home searched
Mr McLachlan told the jury that the defendant’s phone was searched.​

Lindsay Birbeck murder trial at Preston Crown Court - updates

(Need to keep scrolling to get to that bit, there's no more info on the phone though.)

Wow hadn't seen that ..I had "presumed" it had been disposed of ... it surprises me there was nothing on his phone

 

[Whitehall 1212]

He had a phone, no idea if it was a smart phone or not:

12:44
Defendant's home searched
Mr McLachlan told the jury that the defendant’s phone was searched.​

Lindsay Birbeck murder trial at Preston Crown Court - updates

(Need to keep scrolling to get to that bit, there's no more info on the phone though.)

Having followed the link to the Court reports, I think it is a typo and should read 'defendant's home was searched'. This would tie in with the heading 'defendant's home searched'.

A phone would be sent to an appropriately trained officer with the correct computer software to download the data, not done in situ.

 

[Kaykedi]

Wow hadn't seen that ..I had "presumed" it had been disposed of ... it surprises me there was nothing on his phone

Wow hadn't seen that ..I had "presumed" it had been disposed of ... it surprises me there was nothing on his phone

Probably a new phone, or, a burner phone JJ

 

[Mumrahh]

Love the suggestion for the glove being that they were used when covering up the body...

Wonder if he is left or right handed...

Glad my brain is gonna have room for more stuff (till it starts again haha) and my fella an mates are gonna be happy to not hear me declaring random facts an evidence I can't get my head round haha..

 

[Kaykedi]

Love the suggestion for the glove being that they were used when covering up the body...

Wonder if he is left or right handed...

Glad my brain is gonna have room for more stuff (till it starts again haha) and my fella an mates are gonna be happy to not hear me declaring random facts an evidence I can't get my head round haha..

Right-handed would you say?