GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #4

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David Niles, Didn't he say he'd been with NS for 8 years, and now they have two toddlers together? That would mean he was there between 2008-2011, when they were reported to social services.


I cant find the reference for this, but I am fairly sure that DN has only been with NS for 5 years. It stuck in my mind because of his comment about having been with TS since day dot and I thought, surely being with a child from when they are aged 7 is hardly day dot.

2000 TS was born, presumably SC was around at some point during this time,
By 2002 SC has moved north

NS is then with SH for some period of time between 2000 and 2003
2003 SH goes to prison for four years

2007 - presumably this is when SH gets out, if he didnt get out earlier for good behaviour ? but NS has now got together with DN
so SH moves in with CS/CB ?

2009 and 2011 NS has two children with DN and in 2010 there is a social services report of DV

also in 2010 SH goes to prison again, machete incident

I find my head spinning just trying to keep up with all the connections !
 
Some of you lovely people are much better human beings than I. I am struggling to find compassion for Gran.

I am certain she probably did love Tia but I cannot reconcile that with my belief she essentially served Tia up to her murderer on a silver platter. SH was allowed unrestricted, unchecked access to a 12 year old girl. :(

I too am finding it difficult to feel any compassion for Gran...

You're right about dogs having much better sense of smell. I think I have read on the order of 10000 times better than humans sense of smell.

I think when people hear 4 searches it sounds really bad, but when you break it down.......

1st search: Police only search Tia's room (Sat)

2nd search: Specialist search team search whole house including loft, for 2 hours. Miss body and no mention of using dogs. (Sun)

3rd "search": Wasn't a search. A body recovery dog was deployed to the house.(Wed)

4th search: Described by police as a "pre-planned search". Police find body. (Fri)

IMO, a officer conducting the search on Sunday missed the body when checking the loft. When the body recovery dog went in on Wednesday it indicated which then prompted the now confused police to plan a pre-planned search on Friday.

I really do think it that simple. *IF* it turns out that the body was moved at some point, I think that would make the police looking even more incompetent with them issuing a immediate apology.

100% agree with you..... they have jeopardised the whole case with their "human error".

Is the one responsible for the domestic violence incident David Niles, rather than some other bloke we don't know of? Didn't he say he'd been with NS for 8 years, and now they have two toddlers together? That would mean he was there between 2008-2011, when they were reported to social services.

I was wondering if SC was the one who was responsible for the DV.... perhaps he took exception to NS's new relationship? - I wondered if that's why CS/CB wouldn't let him in the house when the searches were going on.... does anyone remember it being reported that SC was contacting Tia via Facebook?? I got the impression he was being denied access to her...

'dysfunctional' is a gross understatement with this lot.
 
I am in the same spot you are...

I don't necessarily question Gran's HEART but her DECISIONS. I think one of these decisions cost Tia her life.

Gran's decisions:

Shacked up w/ her daughter's ex flame (SH)
Allowed SH into her home
Seemigly allowed SH alone w/ Tia

Don't forget that Tia chose to go there because of problems in her own home-which according to one statement CS made were worsening.There has been evidence of drug use and DV.
NS had lived with SH so knew exactly what he was like.
NS was primarily responsible for Tia's welfare.
It does seem highly likely Tia was being or had been abused,but the cause of her death might not be sexually motivated.
 
to be honest i really don't think it matters if somebody or nobody was fiddling the dole, so what, who cares if they were, it doesn't change the fact that the same thing would have happened .

It's not that I particularly care about that either, it's more that it points to perhaps why CS was hiding her face and the original details of who was at home with Tia were wrongly given. Some have used those details of CS to assign whether she was in on it rather than it maybe pointing to her trying to hide a benefits scam.


Hi to Alyce, blefuscu and Saturn.
 
It's not that I particularly care about that either, it's more that it points to perhaps why CS was hiding her face and the original details of who was at home with Tia were wrongly given. Some have used those details of CS to assign whether she was in on it rather than it maybe pointing to her trying to hide a benefits scam.


Hi to Alyce, blefuscu and Saturn.

she didn't hide it half the time anyway

i'm sure you could link us to lots of pics of her hiding her face but then we could also show a lot where she wasn't hiding it at all
 
But........if the cadaver dog went in on the Wednesday ( search 3 ) which I understood to be the case, and if the dog indicated at that time, then why did they wait another 2 days to do a further search ?
I actually thought it was the cadaver dog on the Friday search who indicated towards the bedroom/loft and it was at that time that the senior officer said they had already searched the loft ?
 
I too am finding it difficult to feel any compassion for Gran...



100% agree with you..... they have jeopardised the whole case with their "human error".



I was wondering if SC was the one who was responsible for the DV.... perhaps he took exception to NS's new relationship? - I wondered if that's why CS/CB wouldn't let him in the house when the searches were going on.... does anyone remember it being reported that SC was contacting Tia via Facebook?? I got the impression he was being denied access to her...

'dysfunctional' is a gross understatement with this lot.

This is the link for that statement

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...terviewed-by-police-as-a-witness-8021673.html

Natalie Sharp claimed Tia had recently clashed with Mr Carter after he tried to contact her on Facebook.

Mr Carter’s brother Aaron, 27, denied claims of harassment last night.
 
You have to fill out a new form - changes to your circumstances or something. Just go into your job centre and tell them you need a form to change form contribution based to income based and they'll give you the one you need. Once you've sent it off it will change over automatically (after a few letters of confirmation).

found that on google

obviously you would have to fill in a new form but it doesn't just stop, it just carries on as normal, same visits to the job centre etc.

India, have you ever been on means-tested benefits? You don't "just get them". The switch-over from non-meanstested jobseekers to meanstested is not automatic unless your means are such that you are entitled. Now, I know this first hand. I don't work, and my husband lost his job last year. We have savings of over £16,000 because we were sensible with money while he was employed. He was entitled to 6 months jobseekers allowance regardless of other income, then it stopped because when our means were tested we were found to not be in need of the benefit - instead we are expected to live off our savings.
 
India, have you ever been on means-tested benefits? You don't "just get them". The switch-over from non-meanstested jobseekers to meanstested is not automatic unless your means are such that you are entitled. Now, I know this first hand. I don't work, and my husband lost his job last year. We have savings of over £16,000 because we were sensible with money while he was employed. He was entitled to 6 months jobseekers allowance regardless of other income, then it stopped because when our means were tested we were found to not be in need of the benefit - instead we are expected to live off our savings.

fair enough but he wasn't married to her and i doubt he had savings
 
it's more that it points to perhaps why CS was hiding her face and the original details of who was at home with Tia were wrongly given. Some have used those details of CS to assign whether she was in on it rather than it maybe pointing to her trying to hide a benefits scam.


Hi to Alyce, blefuscu and Saturn.



I also think CB hiding her face was more to do with whatever she was doing that was not strictly kosher .
I have had quite a lot of contact with care homes and have never known a care worker ( I realise it was autistic children not elderly ) to do a 22 hour shift.
Although no doubt the police have checked her whereabouts and verified where she was.

Thanks for the welcome Kaos
 
she didn't hide it half the time anyway

i'm sure you could link us to lots of pics of her hiding her face but then we could also show a lot where she wasn't hiding it at all

The candle light procession was the one where it stuck out but it could also have been when it hit home that Tia really was missing and not just ran away as she'd probably assumed.
 

Thank You so much..... so relieved I didn't imagine it!

But........if the cadaver dog went in on the Wednesday ( search 3 ) which I understood to be the case, and if the dog indicated at that time, then why did they wait another 2 days to do a further search ?
I actually thought it was the cadaver dog on the Friday search who indicated towards the bedroom/loft and it was at that time that the senior officer said they had already searched the loft ?

It was a 'body recovery dog' on the Wednesday (I might be wrong, but aren't they trained to find a 'live' body??) whatever it was trained for, it was indicating something, and that's why they called in the cadavers.... I guess it takes time to get hold of the cadavers, they might have suspected that a 'body' had been in the property, but as they had already carried out a full search {{cough cough}} they probably was looking for 'evidence' (not body) during the forensic search on the Friday.....

I would loved to have seen this 'senior officer's face

A further search of Sharp’s house began on Friday morning when a junior officer insisted a sniffer dog was‘indicating’ towards a bedroom ceiling. The officers themselves could also smell decomposition.

Initially a senior officer co-ordinating the search said the loft had already been checked but was persuaded to change his mind.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...breaks-house-body-lay-week.html#ixzz247FVopHN

wonder if he's still a 'senior officer' ...
 
fair enough but he wasn't married to her and i doubt he had savings

You don't have to be married. If you are living together you are counted as a couple for the purposes of means tested benefits. If he pretended to be a lodger (and he would have had to have a fake rent book as evidence) would be the only way he could be assessed without taking her income into account.
 
Thank You so much..... so relieved I didn't imagine it!



It was a 'body recovery dog' on the Wednesday (I might be wrong, but aren't they trained to find a 'live' body??) whatever it was trained for, it was indicating something, and that's why they called in the cadavers.... I guess it takes time to get hold of the cadavers, they might have suspected that a 'body' had been in the property, but as they had already carried out a full search {{cough cough}} they probably was looking for 'evidence' (not body) during the forensic search on the Friday.....

I would loved to have seen this 'senior officer's face

A further search of Sharp’s house began on Friday morning when a junior officer insisted a sniffer dog was‘indicating’ towards a bedroom ceiling. The officers themselves could also smell decomposition.

Initially a senior officer co-ordinating the search said the loft had already been checked but was persuaded to change his mind.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...breaks-house-body-lay-week.html#ixzz247FVopHN

wonder if he's still a 'senior officer' ...

Thanks Luna, yes I guess resources would be the reason for the 4th search not taking place until the Friday. Plus, as you say, they thought that possibly a body **had** been in the property, but was no longer there, because of course they had done a thorough search.

I would also very much like to know what that Senior officer is up to now.
 
But........if the cadaver dog went in on the Wednesday ( search 3 ) which I understood to be the case, and if the dog indicated at that time, then why did they wait another 2 days to do a further search ?
I actually thought it was the cadaver dog on the Friday search who indicated towards the bedroom/loft and it was at that time that the senior officer said they had already searched the loft ?

I dont know if this makes it clearer Alyce.... this is what the police said

Police said a third visit took place on Wednesday. "This was not a search, but the attendance of a body recovery dog to assist the investigation team in their inquiries," he said. "It is not appropriate to comment further on aspects of the criminal investigation currently being conducted, but our investigation was such that it was decided that a further intrusive search needed to be undertaken – it was that search, yesterday, which resulted in the discovery.

so the dogs on wednesday reacted in such a way that they decided on 'a further intrusive search' - I dont think the dogs on Wednesday were 'cadaver'
 
Thanks Luna, yes I guess resources would be the reason for the 4th search not taking place until the Friday. Plus, as you say, they thought that possibly a body **had** been in the property, but was no longer there, because of course they had done a thorough search.

I would also very much like to know what that Senior officer is up to now.

sorry our posts crossed..... I expect senior officer is on 'paid leave'
 
sorry our posts crossed..... I expect senior officer is on 'paid leave'

I don't have the source to hand right now but I did read that police confirmed to journalists that the search officers in question had not been suspended from duty. Will go and see if I can find the source.
 
OK, I'm not some softie do gooder that sees the positive side in everyone. But by latching onto every word of the red top papers, gossip and rumour, it seems the bad side of the people is being picked to bits, so opinions are making them guilty and guiltier by the minute.

Let's take the whole case back to the foundations, and find some good points (if possible) on those under the spotlight, or other facts about their personalities.

SH - OK, banged up for supplying crack in 2003, and wielding a machete in 2008: he would have been watched very carefully, and if thought a danger to children, it would/SHOULD have been on the radar. I'm still feeling a bit taken in by the interview, and took his twitchiness to be years of drug misuse. He has probably been in Tia's life for, say 5+ years. Tia probably had enough streetwise nouse to know if anything was "wrong", unless pocket money was her sole measure of worth.

CS - Holds down a job (whether this has been declared along with benefit claims is another issue); drives - so can't be that stupid as she's passed her test. May have grown up from the age of 30+ which is why she saw her daughter (NS) repeating her own earlier "mistakes" regarding being a young mum, and I say mistakes, not so much as an unwanted child, just an "I don't know to cope with it child". Smokes too much (says me a smoker). May have thought she'd never find love again, so took SH in, as not her 100% perfect find, but a bit of affection is better than none.

NS - had Tia at a young age, it happens, split with the dad, and as usually happens Mum gets the kiddie, which usually suits the errant father just fine at the time. Found new bloke, 2 more children, Tia is on the heap as Tia can now look after herself and is not part of the NS/DN partnership. (still think the whole phone thing is fishy though).

SC - Tia's biological dad, seems quite normal, and kept in touch and also his mum had access, albeit infrequent, he seems unwelcome by the New Addington clan - probably nothing sinister, but I can see them using Tia as a pawn, and often if he gets too much, you just sort of keep away, but on the other hand he has a new relationship with young kids, so again Tia is a bi-product of a previous fling.

New Addington estate - the majority hate the Police, the law, living by the book, contributing to society etc. However, the majority will not see any harm come to a child, if there were any dodgy goings on, they would squeal, unless they had been threatened if they did. A sad state of affairs, as those with some moral aptitude still in place are threatened by those that don't: and are probably more upset by the fact the Police presence has prevented them going about their "normal daily tasks".

PM - even if I was asked by my very best mate to say I'd seen something I didn't, I wouldn't do it..........hypothetical....as my mates also know that I wouldn't so I'd never be asked.

DS. All mouth, no trousers. The most coherant of the bunch, but went surprisingly quiet after the SH arrest. Wonder if he just had to protect "the family", and is now feeling a bit of a twit. Not saying he didn't care, but the whole episode shows that no-one really cared until it all went pear shaped, despite the outpourings, everyone thought that someone else was looking out for Tia.

I'd love to know how looked after Tia felt, but guess we will never know, unless a close friend shares their schoolgirl secrets.

I would love to give kids like Tia a break from their lives, so they can breath and relax without having to be on edge all the time, but that would take about 6 years to pass in this country. Totally off topic, but after Chernobyl our neighbours had a Russian girl to stay for 1 month each year, part paid for by family and part by Russia, it was to get fresh air into the lungs of the Russian youngsters. If only our at risk/inner city kids could do the same without all the red tape.
 
sorry our posts crossed..... I expect senior officer is on 'paid leave'

I don't recall this ever making it into print. It was tweeted from ITV's Jon Clements on 15th Aug

Jon Clements‏@JonClementsITV

But Yard refusing to say if officers involved still carrying out searches on other cases or have been withdrawn those duties #tiasharp

Jon Clements‏@JonClementsITV

Clarity from Scotland Yard - search officers who missed #TiaSharp's body in grandmother's loft have NOT been placed on restricted duties
 
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