GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #4

[Inge Jones]

I thought it meant becuase he was in prison.

 

[Skigh]

Saturn,

You have made some thoughtful insights.

I agree with you about Tia's streetwise nous ,I did wonder if perhaps for some reason Tia was using some information she knew to get money from SH.

I would not be surprised if most of the males mentioned in this case had some previous convictions.

If CS is involved in any way then I think DS would also know what happened.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I dont know if this makes it clearer Alyce.... this is what the police said

Police said a third visit took place on Wednesday. "This was not a search, but the attendance of a body recovery dog to assist the investigation team in their inquiries," he said. "It is not appropriate to comment further on aspects of the criminal investigation currently being conducted, but our investigation was such that it was decided that a further intrusive search needed to be undertaken – it was that search, yesterday, which resulted in the discovery.

so the dogs on wednesday reacted in such a way that they decided on 'a further intrusive search' - I dont think the dogs on Wednesday were 'cadaver'

BBM.

Do you mean to say that the dog(s) were cadaver dog(s) Luna?

I have to say it reads pretty clear to me. Dog went in Wed and that prompted the police to do a second intrusive search.

If I edit the irrelevant parts out we are left with this:

This was not a search, but the attendance of a body recovery dog to assist the investigation team in their inquiries," he said. Our investigation was such that it was decided that a further intrusive search needed to be undertaken

To me that means the dog going in Wed indicated, prompting the second intrusive search.

 

[Skigh]

I don't recall this ever making it into print. It was tweeted from ITV's Jon Clements on 15th Aug

Jon Clements‏@JonClementsITV

But Yard refusing to say if officers involved still carrying out searches on other cases or have been withdrawn those duties #tiasharp

Jon Clements‏@JonClementsITV

Clarity from Scotland Yard - search officers who missed #TiaSharp's body in grandmother's loft have NOT been placed on restricted duties

The officers involved in this case will all be badly affected by what they have seen.
I do hope none of them do lose their jobs-in the future they will be probably be the most diligent team .

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

BIB I'm with you on the body being in the loft all along.
The fact is the police did apologise. Publically and quickly. That's rare.

And since the body was found in the loft, I have to believe it was there all along. They simply wouldn't apologise in the way they did otherwise IMO.



http://www.itv.com/news/2012-08-12/stuart-hazell-charged-with-murder-of-12-year-old-tia-sharp/

Just a thought...

could,the,police be making the apology as a way to make the person who moved the body talk and act more freely... To slip up and give away some info?

this is just if the body had been,moved.. And the police actually knew,it had been.

JMO

 

[Skigh]

BBM.

Do you mean to say that the dog(s) were cadaver dog(s) Luna?

I have to say it reads pretty clear to me. Dog went in Wed and that prompted the police to do a second intrusive search.

If I edit the irrelevant parts out we are left with this:



To me that means the dog going in Wed indicated, prompting the second intrusive search.

The dog on wednesday did come out with a toy in its mouth so I think it did indicate something-could be it was trained as more of a tracker dog.
Could be that it could not track the scent from the house.Police then come to the conclusion there is a body in the house and call in for a more highly trained dog.

The police would have to justify the cost of this as I think it is very expensive to bring them in.

 

[Luna15]

BBM.

Do you mean to say that the dog(s) were cadaver dog(s) Luna?

I have to say it reads pretty clear to me. Dog went in Wed and that prompted the police to do a second intrusive search.

If I edit the irrelevant parts out we are left with this:



To me that means the dog going in Wed indicated, prompting the second intrusive search.

I am probably confusing things...... it is my understanding that PRD and 'Cadavar' dogs are trained for different 'findings'..... ie Police Recovery Dogs are trained to recover 'live' people who are say, trapped under rubble..... maybe at that stage they thought they had a 'Shannon Matthews' case on their hands and took in a dog to look for a 'live' Tia...

My understanding is that 'Cadaver' dogs are trained for find 'human remains'...

If Wednesdays dogs were trained in the same way as Fridays dogs, surely they would have been indicating to the ceiling as well..... if that was the case, surely someone would have gone straight up to the loft?

I do hope this makes sense.

Long live Eddie & Keela

 

[Skigh]

Just a thought...

could,the,police be making the apology as a way to make the person who moved the body talk and act more freely... To slip up and give away some info?

this is just if the body had been,moved.. And the police actually knew,it had been.

JMO

I think feelings were probably running high on the estate.Having their garages searched and having a constant police presence would have not pleased many residents.The police knew they still needed co-operation from the locals and would not want name calling and agro being given to the police still on the scene,so this was done to try and keep goodwill with the locals.

 

[Luna15]

The dog on wednesday did come out with a toy in its mouth so I think it did indicate something-could be it was trained as more of a tracker dog.
Could be that it could not track the scent from the house.Police then come to the conclusion there is a body in the house and call in for a more highly trained dog.

The police would have to justify the cost of this as I think it is very expensive to bring them in.

No disrespect whatsoever but, no way if they thought there was a body in the house on Wednesday would they wait until Friday, and eat into their budgets by bringing in the Cadavers.... they should just have used manpower to take the place apart if they had the slightest indication on Wednesday that a body was there......

 

[Luna15]

I think feelings were probably running high on the estate.Having their garages searched and having a constant police presence would have not pleased many residents.The police knew they still needed co-operation from the locals and would not want name calling and agro being given to the police still on the scene,so this was done to try and keep goodwill with the locals.

BBM

your probably right.... they had already started getting abuse:-

One man shouted abuse at the police and asked: "Weren't you watching him?"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/aug/10/tia-sharp-body-stuart-hazell

 

[soozieqtips]

This may sound mean, but I really have little sympathy for Gran. She absolutely must have known exactly what SH was like after he went out with her daughter. To leave Tia alone with such a man was asking for trouble. No one in their right mind would leave a beloved grandchild alone all night with a drinker and ex drug addict. That's not simply a poor decision, it's neglect of the highest order.

And as far as the £4 that SH said Natalie might have given Tia the day before, how did he know the amount that she might have been given? Had he been in touch with Natalie on the Thursday? It's such a specific amount to remember. Perhaps Tia did have £4 on her and nothing else? Maybe SH wanted it to go and buy a drink and told Tia to give it to him, and Tia said she needed it herself, then an argument broke out that got out of hand because SH went mad when she wouldn't give him the money?

By the way, this thread is galloping along so fast that I can't remember who said what, but an earlier post mentioned that Tia possibly didn't have any trainers with her, and that SH made it up to explain why her UGG boots were still there. I think that's a good point. If he put her in the loft fully clothed, she should still have been wearing the trainers.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I am probably confusing things...... it is my understanding that PRD and 'Cadavar' dogs are trained for different 'findings'..... ie Police Recovery Dogs are trained to recover 'live' people who are say, trapped under rubble..... maybe at that stage they thought they had a 'Shannon Matthews' case on their hands and took in a dog to look for a 'live' Tia...

My understanding is that 'Cadaver' dogs are trained for find 'human remains'...

If Wednesdays dogs were trained in the same way as Fridays dogs, surely they would have been indicating to the ceiling as well..... if that was the case, surely someone would have gone straight up to the loft?

I do hope this makes sense.

Long live Eddie & Keela

I think the police were equally confused Luna!

If I'm right (Probably ain't!) it possibly went down something like this:

Sun: Officer misses body in loft.
Wed: Cadaver dog indicates in the house. Senior officer on scene dismisses this because search team already cleared the house.

Later on Wed: Commanding officer at the incident room reads the days report and orders the second full search.

That is what I deduce so far with what we know. A lot will no doubt change.

The term "body recovery dog" is confusing thing's for us. IMO, the word body indicates dead= Cadaver dog renamed.

Eddie and Keela. As Del Boy used to say......What can't speak can't lie.

 

[Skigh]

No disrespect whatsoever but, no way if they thought there was a body in the house on Wednesday would they wait until Friday, and eat into their budgets by bringing in the Cadavers.... they should just have used manpower to take the place apart if they had the slightest indication on Wednesday that a body was there......

You are quite right. Could be the dog indicated that a death had happened in the house and the cadaver dog was going to be used to sniff clothes etc.
Remebering Eddie and Keela and Kate's 'pants of ganga' for any one who followed that case.
The police might not have expected to actually find a body but clues to who had been in contact whith a dead body .

 

[Luna15]

You are quite right. Could be the dog indicated that a death had happened in the house and the cadaver dog was going to be used to sniff clothes etc.
Remebering Eddie and Keela and Kate's 'pants of ganga' for any one who followed that case.
The police might not have expected to actually find a body but clues to who had been in contact whith a dead body .

BBM - that's what I think... and I agree with TheTruthWillOut on their 'timeline' in previous post...

pity the New Addington massive weren't familiar with the referred to case.... if they'd have been smarter they could have put the dogs indications down to 'rotten meat' and 'nappies' ... anyway I think that subject is a no go on this site and I dont want to upset our hosts so :silenced::silenced::silenced:

still a desperately bitter pill to swallow that one though :maddening:

 

[Skigh]

This may sound mean, but I really have little sympathy for Gran. She absolutely must have known exactly what SH was like after he went out with her daughter. To leave Tia alone with such a man was asking for trouble. No one in their right mind would leave a beloved grandchild alone all night with a drinker and ex drug addict. That's not simply a poor decision, it's neglect of the highest order.

And as far as the £4 that SH said Natalie might have given Tia the day before, how did he know the amount that she might have been given? Had he been in touch with Natalie on the Thursday? It's such a specific amount to remember. Perhaps Tia did have £4 on her and nothing else? Maybe SH wanted it to go and buy a drink and told Tia to give it to him, and Tia said she needed it herself, then an argument broke out that got out of hand because SH went mad when she wouldn't give him the money?

By the way, this thread is galloping along so fast that I can't remember who said what, but an earlier post mentioned that Tia possibly didn't have any trainers with her, and that SH made it up to explain why her UGG boots were still there. I think that's a good point. If he put her in the loft fully clothed, she should still have been wearing the trainers.

I think it is highly likely Tia's mother is a drug user and possibly DN. It is also probably they drink too
.At least at gran's house she had a bedroom to sleep in.
Tia had spent half her life in the company of SH-it was not as if gran had suddenly found a new boyfriend about whom no one knew anything about.


I have a feeling that NS negleted Tia and any money she had was not given by her.
I wonder who gave Tia her blackberry(it was reported that David niles mother said she had a blackberry) and who payed for the calls-contract or Pay as you go .

What Tia was wearing will give more information to the police.
I do not think the trainers existed they were an excuse for the boots to still be in the house.

 

[Skigh]

BBM - that's what I think... and I agree with TheTruthWillOut on their 'timeline' in previous post...

pity the New Addington massive weren't familiar with the referred to case.... if they'd have been smarter they could have put the dogs indications down to 'rotten meat' and 'nappies' ... anyway I think that subject is a no go on this site and I dont want to upset our hosts so :silenced::silenced::silenced:

still a desperately bitter pill to swallow that one though :maddening:

If SH had said he was down the pub going to check her every half an hour and then found she'd gone and the neighbour described an egg shaped individual carrying her away he would not be behind bars now.

They did learn to get the leaflets and T shirts printed pretty quickly.

I wonder if they had plans for a fund so they could pay off their mortgage-sorry got that wrong- buy their council house.

 

[opalsqueak63]

SKIGH:

I think it is highly likely Tia's mother is a drug user and possibly NS it is also probably they drink too
.At least at gran's house she had a bedroom to sleep in.
Tia had spent half her life in the company of SH-it was not as if gran had suddenly found a new boyfriend about whom no one knew about.


I have a feeling that NS negleted Tia and any money she had was not given by her.
I wonder who gave Tia her blackberry(it was reported that David niles mother said she had a blackberry) and who payed for the calls-contract or Pay .

What Tia was wearing will give more information to the police.
I do not think the trainers existed they were an excuse for the boots to still be in the house.

Skigh - I think you are spot on with this.

 

[BritsKate]

Just FWIW:
My daughter has a Blackberry too as it's one of very few phones this side of the pond that can be GPS enabled. I didn't pay anything up front for the phone but I do have a £20/mo contract with Tesco Mobile for 2 years. PAYG deals were about £100-220 up front for the phone at the time.

 

[Skigh]

Just FWIW:
My daughter has a Blackberry too as it's one of very few phones this side of the pond that can be GPS enabled. I didn't pay anything up front for the phone but I do have a £20/mo contract with Tesco Mobile for 2 years. PAYG deals were about £100-220 up front for the phone at the time.

Do you know how long a blackberry takes to charge -how long does a charged battery last.
Are phones automatically GPS enabled or is it an extra charge.

I am wondering what happened to Tia's own mobile to prevent her taking it when she left Merton.
If it was PAYG she would have taken it and hoped Granny or SH would give her top up money.
If it was not charged she would have taken her charger.
If it was not working for another reason and she planned to go to town she would have taken it to a mobile shop.

She probably had very few personal possessions and those were stored in carrier bags.Her Mulberry would be far to precious to leave behind.


I do not believe DN's story about Tia leaving her mobile at home and taking her mothers.

I think the mystery of Tia's death started that morning in her own home.

 

[opalsqueak63]

If SH had said he was down the pub going to check her every half an hour and then found she'd gone and the neighbour described an egg shaped individual carrying her away he would not be behind bars now.

:lol:
That was very amusing