UK - Two arrested, 34 bodies removed during investigation into funeral directors, Hull, 10 March 2024

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BreadnLumpit said:
Coffins are rarely bought in bulk except by the huge chains, because of the space needed to store them. The price I quoted is a wholesale price that requires a minimum number of coffins to be ordered at once, and is the cheapest available to my knowledge (full disclosure - I'm an FD from elsewhere in the UK).

The £970 quoted is on the Legacy website as being their price for an unattended funeral - also known as a direct cremation. This set price package doesn't allow for a service or for any extras to be added, so they wont have gained income from chapel hire or catering.

Driver/Bearers are often employed on a casual basis or, as you suggest, self employed but they will still need to be paid and self employed bearers often charge more per hour than paying casuals an hourly rate, which would offset any savings on employers NI.

It is illegal for any funeral director in the UK to take payment for pre-paid plans. That part of the sector is heavily regulated and policed by the Financial Conduct Authority. The rules around a funeral director even discussing details of pre-paid plans are beyond draconian and I won't bore you to death with the ins and outs, but if Legacy were taking actual monetary payments for pre-paid plans in any way, shape or form then that will almost certainly form part of their criminal charges.


All excellent suggestions and I would welcome all of them with the exception of Gov't regulation going above and beyond a requirement to belong to either of the two main trade bodies. Both of these inspect without prior warning and expect their members to uphold rigorous standards. Many small firms belong to both.

My only opposition to Gov't regulation beyond insisting on trade association memberships is that they have a tendency to throw out the baby with the bathwater based on previous Gov't interventions but I'd still prefer a full and clumsily implemented licencing scheme to the status quo of anyone being able to set up as an FD with no checks whatsoever.
Click to expand...

Thanks for feedback. Re the pre-payments for funeral plans, this was what was happening on the same site when it was run by Heavenly Services. Local people lost a lot of money:

www.hulldailymail.co.uk

Police update in Heavenly Services investigation

Officers had investigated whether any fraud had been committed but the only suspect was the business owner who had died
www.hulldailymail.co.uk www.hulldailymail.co.uk

www.hulldailymail.co.uk

Heavenly Services customers 'unlikely' to get their money back

Insolvency firm Auker Rhodes says assets recovered would go to creditors
www.hulldailymail.co.uk www.hulldailymail.co.uk

Then, the Bradford Heavenly Services site went under too. People also lost their plan money. Looks like it had a different director.

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

Bradford pensioners left devastated after funeral firm collapses

DEVASTATED pensioners have spoken of their distress after a funeral company they paid out thousands of pounds to went bust.
www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

It also seems like Heavenly Services had a credit account with a coffin manufacturer although not sure how much they were owed . See "order of court to wind up" HEAVENLY SERVICES LTD filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

See these article where Simon Woolston stated how he made money with low-cost funerals. Obviously Legacy had a slightly different model and prices.

Yorkshire Post: "Yorkshire funeral director 'aimed to cause controversy with billboard next to hospital"
pph-commercial.co.uk

HULL BUSINESSMAN TO OFFER CUT PRICE FUNERALS - PPH Commercial

Simon Woolston has leased 171 to 177 Hessle Road through PPH Commercial and has launched Funeral Support Services, which will provide a full funeral service for just £1700. “The cost of a funeral is normally £4,500, which I think is a rip off. From our £1700 charge we will still make £600...
pph-commercial.co.uk pph-commercial.co.uk
 
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BreadnLumpit said:
I'm wondering if there was coroner involvement in his death. Sometimes when someone dies suddenly and unexpectedly, the post mortem doesn't immediately reveal a cause of death (there may be a considerable wait for toxicology results for example). The 5 days to register rule applies only to 5 days after a doctor or coroner issues a Medical Cause of Death (MCD) form.

When that happens the death can't be registered (because there is no definitive cause of death for the doctor to put on the MCD, so no paperwork allowing the registrar to create a record of death in the GRO). So that the family can arrange a funeral and move on with things like probate etc, an interim death certificate is issued by the Coroner but the actual GRO record might not be entered until some months after death.

I'm just musing, but it seems a possible explanation?
Click to expand...

Last week Hull Daily Mail stated he died "from covid".

www.hulldailymail.co.uk

Legacy Funerals investigation 'unrelated to fraud probe at second firm'

Heavenly Services was investigated by Humberside Police in 2021 but the owner died from Covid
www.hulldailymail.co.uk www.hulldailymail.co.uk

However, in 2021 the newspaper stated he died from a "sudden and acute illness on 11 October"

www.hulldailymail.co.uk

Tributes paid to Heavenly Services funeral boss after sudden death

'A man with a huge heart and massive amounts of fun and laughter'
www.hulldailymail.co.uk www.hulldailymail.co.uk

I think him dying of Covid would be odd as he was taking part in a webinar and tweeting on the 6-7 October 2021. The average time from symptoms to death is far longer according to WHO. More like a couple of weeks.

www.twitter.com/simonewoolston

He was also largely scrubbed from the internet, interesting for someone who liked publicity. I don't want to get *too* conspiracy theorist about it, but would definitely like to see a death certificate to be sure this isn't a John Darwin "canoe" case. But, yes, you could be right about the coroner.

My other thought is that the death may not have been covid/illness at all, he did genuinely die but, hypothetically, his family wanted another reason not to be made public. That would make sense.
 
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JustTryingToHelp said:
Thanks for feedback. Re the pre-payments for funeral plans, this was what was happening on the same site when it was run by Heavenly Services. Local people lost a lot of money:

www.hulldailymail.co.uk

Police update in Heavenly Services investigation

Officers had investigated whether any fraud had been committed but the only suspect was the business owner who had died
www.hulldailymail.co.uk www.hulldailymail.co.uk

www.hulldailymail.co.uk

Heavenly Services customers 'unlikely' to get their money back

Insolvency firm Auker Rhodes says assets recovered would go to creditors
www.hulldailymail.co.uk www.hulldailymail.co.uk

Then, the Bradford Heavenly Services site went under too. People also lost their plan money. Looks like it had a different director.

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

Bradford pensioners left devastated after funeral firm collapses

DEVASTATED pensioners have spoken of their distress after a funeral company they paid out thousands of pounds to went bust.
www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

It also seems like Heavenly Services had a credit account with a coffin manufacturer although not sure how much they were owed . See "order of court to wind up" HEAVENLY SERVICES LTD filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

See these article where Simon Woolston stated how he made money with low-cost funerals. Obviously Legacy had a slightly different model and prices.


pph-commercial.co.uk

HULL BUSINESSMAN TO OFFER CUT PRICE FUNERALS - PPH Commercial

Simon Woolston has leased 171 to 177 Hessle Road through PPH Commercial and has launched Funeral Support Services, which will provide a full funeral service for just £1700. “The cost of a funeral is normally £4,500, which I think is a rip off. From our £1700 charge we will still make £600...
pph-commercial.co.uk pph-commercial.co.uk
Click to expand...
I know - It was appalling cases like these that you've quoted that led to the FCA taking over regulation and control of the pre-paid plan market back in July 2022.

Several large cowboy pre-paid plan companies had gone under, as well as these smaller bad operator FDs - all leaving often elderly and vulnerable people out of pocket, betrayed and scared. There was no oversight of these companies at all - much like the SERPS gold rush of the early 90s, there were con merchants aplenty.

The run up to FCA regulation sorted the wheat from the chaff thankfully and I for one am profoundly glad that the Gov't finally stepped in and sorted the market out - it was an absolute disgrace that a financial product like funeral plans had never been regulated in the first place!
 
JustTryingToHelp said:
Last week Hull Daily Mail stated he died "from covid".

www.hulldailymail.co.uk

Legacy Funerals investigation 'unrelated to fraud probe at second firm'

Heavenly Services was investigated by Humberside Police in 2021 but the owner died from Covid
www.hulldailymail.co.uk www.hulldailymail.co.uk

However, in 2021 the newspaper stated he died from a "sudden and acute illness on 11 October"

www.hulldailymail.co.uk

Tributes paid to Heavenly Services funeral boss after sudden death

'A man with a huge heart and massive amounts of fun and laughter'
www.hulldailymail.co.uk www.hulldailymail.co.uk

I think him dying of Covid would be odd as he was taking part in a webinar and tweeting on the 6-7 October 2021. The average time from symptoms to death is far longer according to WHO. More like a couple of weeks.

www.twitter.com/simonewoolston

He was also largely scrubbed from the internet, interesting for someone who liked publicity. I don't want to get *too* conspiracy theorist about it, but would definitely like to see a death certificate. But, yes, you could be right about the coroner.
Click to expand...
I can't help but wonder if the HDM was being given their information by a family member being incredibly and deliberately vague - or just made an assumption about Covid, given that it was 2021.

I'd be interested to know if there was an inquest - the records of past inquests aren't usually available online though, it would necessitate a trip to the Coroner's office in Hull to look at the paper records and that is a massive distance from me unfortunately.
 
BreadnLumpit said:
I know - It was appalling cases like these that you've quoted that led to the FCA taking over regulation and control of the pre-paid plan market back in July 2022.

Several large cowboy pre-paid plan companies had gone under, as well as these smaller bad operator FDs - all leaving often elderly and vulnerable people out of pocket, betrayed and scared. There was no oversight of these companies at all - much like the SERPS gold rush of the early 90s, there were con merchants aplenty.

The run up to FCA regulation sorted the wheat from the chaff thankfully and I for one am profoundly glad that the Gov't finally stepped in and sorted the market out - it was an absolute disgrace that a financial product like funeral plans had never been regulated in the first place!
Click to expand...
We had a similar scandal here in Australia recently involving a scheme preying on indigenous people up in the northern parts of the country. Our most vulnerable and poorest citizens, with the lowest life expectancy, and they were just trying to put what little they could down to relieve the burden of their own eventual death from their surviving family. Those who stole from them are truly despicable.

I think it's an industry that has such a deep responsibility. We're never more vulnerable that when we're deceased. We truly are helpless and need to rely on others to carry out those last rites for us. We have no choice. And it's a vulnerability that some people in the industry don't care about, they just see dollar signs and cut corners, and we end up here, seeing families who've already grieved have to grieve all over again at the violation of that trust. And with the extremely low chance of DNA from cremains, there's probably never going to be certainty about whose ashes they were given. It's heartbreaking.

MOO
 
BreadnLumpit said:
I can't help but wonder if the HDM was being given their information by a family member being incredibly and deliberately vague - or just made an assumption about Covid, given that it was 2021.

I'd be interested to know if there was an inquest - the records of past inquests aren't usually available online though, it would necessitate a trip to the Coroner's office in Hull to look at the paper records and that is a massive distance from me unfortunately.
Click to expand...

A death certificate will be available (if one was ever issued) but it'll need applying for via telephoning the GRO. The info needed is Simon Eric Woolston and DOD 11/10/21. It costs £11 though and I'm not paying that, but maybe a journalist looking into the funerals scandal would. If there was an inquest I'd be satisfied he died as reported.
 
This is horrific if this man's grandmother's body had been in the funeral home for 3-4 months. Family still awaiting DNA results.

www.hulldailymail.co.uk

Legacy probe: Grandson 'feels helpless' after police call 'error'

'No closure' for man as he awaits formal identification of body suspected to be his grandmother
www.hulldailymail.co.uk www.hulldailymail.co.uk

news.sky.com

Relative of alleged Hull funeral home victim says his 'world turned upside down'

A man who was told that his grandmother was one of the 35 bodies found has revealed how he feels "helpless" as police continue to investigate.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
 
Numerous Legacy customers reporting today that they've been told their funeral plans don't exist

www.bbc.co.uk

Hull funeral home inquiry: 'I spent £2,700 on a fake funeral policy'

Three families are devastated that plans supposedly bought from Legacy funerals do not exist.
www.bbc.co.uk

Back in autumn 2021, Legacy was also touting for trade on their Facebook business pages, following the collapse of Heavenly Services due to those customers being told they'd lost their plan money. Wondering if anyone has been hit twice.

2/11/2021: "Due to the closure of Heavenly Funeral Services, there are many families that have been left with great uncertainty. We wish to offer our support to those that have paid for funeral plans that are experiencing difficulty making arrangements. Please call us on 01482 562762 for any enquiry."

https://www.facebook.com/legacyfuneraldirectors/posts/pfbid02X28nQp1acrouMYoUQG1oiHkQkmHn8wdZVe4pZXTgLTQkGCdLdQ7tBEeW9QDCavFkl

Also 2/11/2021: "Due to the closure of Heavenly Funeral Services, there are many families that have been left with great uncertainty. We wish to offer our support to those that have paid for funeral plans that are experiencing difficulty making arrangements. Please call us on 01482 562762 for any enquiry. #legacyfuneraldirectors #hullfuneraldirector #hullfunerals #funeraldirectors #funeralplanning #heavenlyfunerals"

https://www.facebook.com/legacyfuneraldirectors/posts/pfbid0rPueNimkpDKpK3bBpcQtWksVUfjEQ7MwEX3K8yhrZyrKGJCNN8geM96jLeLuR3LPl
 
Last edited:
JustTryingToHelp said:
Numerous Legacy customers reporting today that they've been told their funeral plans don't exist

www.bbc.co.uk

Hull funeral home inquiry: 'I spent £2,700 on a fake funeral policy'

Three families are devastated that plans supposedly bought from Legacy funerals do not exist.
www.bbc.co.uk

Back in autumn 2021, Legacy was also touting for trade on their Facebook business pages, following the collapse of Heavenly Services due to those customers being told they'd lost their plan money. Wondering if anyone has been hit twice.

2/11/2021: "Due to the closure of Heavenly Funeral Services, there are many families that have been left with great uncertainty. We wish to offer our support to those that have paid for funeral plans that are experiencing difficulty making arrangements. Please call us on 01482 562762 for any enquiry."

https://www.facebook.com/legacyfuneraldirectors/posts/pfbid02X28nQp1acrouMYoUQG1oiHkQkmHn8wdZVe4pZXTgLTQkGCdLdQ7tBEeW9QDCavFkl

Also 2/11/2021: "Due to the closure of Heavenly Funeral Services, there are many families that have been left with great uncertainty. We wish to offer our support to those that have paid for funeral plans that are experiencing difficulty making arrangements. Please call us on 01482 562762 for any enquiry. #legacyfuneraldirectors #hullfuneraldirector #hullfunerals #funeraldirectors #funeralplanning #heavenlyfunerals"

https://www.facebook.com/legacyfuneraldirectors/posts/pfbid0rPueNimkpDKpK3bBpcQtWksVUfjEQ7MwEX3K8yhrZyrKGJCNN8geM96jLeLuR3LPl
Click to expand...
From the BBC article - "He said when he bought the third-party policy in 2012, he had received written confirmation and a receipt from Legacy."

If that's true, then it seems that they were engaging to fraudulent activities almost as soon as they started up.
 
Yellowbelly said:
From the BBC article - "He said when he bought the third-party policy in 2012, he had received written confirmation and a receipt from Legacy."

If that's true, then it seems that they were engaging to fraudulent activities almost as soon as they started up.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. Even back in 2012 all payments that I took for our third-party funeral plans were made directly to that third party provider (a reputable provider who we still partner with). Subsequent receipts and written confirmation were/are issued by the provider.
 
JustTryingToHelp said:
Why would he go to the bother of submitting the documents? The company is massively in debt, own very few assets, and it's not like they'll be getting any trade as a funeral director ever again (JMO), regardless of the outcome of the police investigation....

Personally, I find it more likely that they haven't submitted the documents post-arrest but that there have been objections from third parties. See: Why would a company strike off be suspended?.

The other alternative is that they submitted them pre-arrest but there were delays.
Click to expand...

I agree that the reason is very likely to be to keep the company active while proceedings are ongoing, this is not an ordinary case of late documents where you can write to CH and ask them to hold off a bit longer or file one thing to kick it down the road. Most likely the Registrar has determined the company must stay on the books for now.
 
Some information published on the Legacy Facebook page about their previous plan providers:

This business Facebook page from 6 July 2022 shows a leaflet on the side advertising pre-paid plans. (FCA regulations began 20 days later).

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com

This business Facebook post from 10 December 2020 shows Legacy announce a "new" partnership with the "Eternal Peace" plan provider

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com

The advert in the window from 8 February 2019 shows Legacy had a partnership with "Perfect Choice" funeral plans

www.facebook.com

Legacy Independent Funeral Directors Ltd - The Hessle Office | Facebook

The Hessle Office
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com

This business Facebook post from 24 Jan 2019 is advertising funeral plans. No third party provider mentioned on this leaflet

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com
 
Last edited:
JustTryingToHelp said:
Some information published on the Legacy Facebook page about their previous plan providers:

This business Facebook page from 6 July 2022 shows a leaflet on the side advertising pre-paid plans. (FCA regulations began 20 days later).

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com

This business Facebook post from 10 December 2020 shows Legacy announce a "new" partnership with the "Eternal Peace" plan provider

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com

The advert in the window from 8 February 2019 shows Legacy had a partnership with "Perfect Choice" funeral plans

www.facebook.com

Legacy Independent Funeral Directors Ltd - The Hessle Office | Facebook

The Hessle Office
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com

This business Facebook post from 24 Jan 2019 is advertising funeral plans. No third party provider mentioned on this leaflet

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com
Click to expand...
Eternal Peace were kicked into touch by the FCA because they weren't compliant. Perfect Choice didn't even bother applying for FCA approval as far as I can recall ... they sold out to Ecclesiastical.

As I say, the pre paid market was an absolute <advertiser censored> show prior to FCA involvement.
For the sake of the public, and to protect the good name of those FDs who care for both the deceased and living with respect, dignity and genuine care, regulation of the sector really can't come soon enough.
 
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