Underground tunnels in Portland

[Haeve]

Totally, Kimster, just clarifying.

Butterfly, not currently in Portland, just an amateur historian and geographer, and longtime Wikipedia editor focusing on the history of Oregon. Check the first link in the external links section of the Wikipedia article linked in the other thread. One of the groups that runs the tour. They may have something.

But with all due respect, I think you're barking up the wrong tree.

Google map:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...755,-122.76329&spn=0.205724,0.441513&t=h&z=11

I think you're better off researching the train tunnel.

 

[butterfly1978]

Hopefully this map link will work

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&r...oregon tunnel tours&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

Is the yellow the tunnels? Or does the A just represent where the tour starts?

 

[tfrohning]

very interesting...

 

[cluciano63]

Even with all of the bizarre activity in this case, I do not think the resolution, if there is one, will be anything more or less bizarre than the usual tragic outcome when a child is gone.

 

[raeann]

Is the yellow the tunnels? Or does the A just represent where the tour starts?

No, I don't think so, the places marked appear to be different starting points for different tours. All of these tunnels seem to be located in the older downtown part of the city, not extending out to the rural areas. I have found a large number of references to other tunnel systems in Portland, including ones at the university and also to the railroad ones near Skyline.

 

[butterfly1978]

Here is a cite with maps of Portland, The best I can come up with is the sewer maps.
http://www.portlandmaps.com/detail.cfm?action=Explorer&ZoomLevel=1&x=7655000&y=680000

 

[Michael25]

I grew up in Portland, from elementary to high school, and not once in that time did I ever hear of these tunnels. I only first learned of them when I was watching a local news bit a little over year ago about city folklore. From what I remember they were used by those engaged in criminal activity...early in the 20th century. Something tells me it's unlikely that TH (from Roseburg, no less) would have thought to use the tunnels, but I guess nothing would surprise me too much about this case at this point in time. It just seems kind of crazy from a local perspective.

 

[butterfly1978]

Okay so there is a possability the tunnels are not related but could be, the railroad tunnels more likely... So what does anyone know about the railroads.

 

[scandi]

Okay so there is a possability the tunnels are not related but could be, the railroad tunnels more likely... So what does anyone know about the railroads.

What I know is that the railroads were fundamental in the development of Portland, bringing $$$'s to the area for development. And a couple of our 'founding fathers' were railroad owners who ended up giving allot of their wealth to plan and do further development of the city.


FASCINATING THREAD BTW.

 

[funknut]

I answered a question about this on the Questions for Our Locals thread. In a nutshell: red herring. :cow:

I'm glad someone else mentioned it already. It seems like this thread has gone on without anyone acknowledging that this is a big red herring. There is no recorded history of any actual "shanghai", or kidnapping ever happening in those tunnels; it is entirely an urban legend. With the way this thread has carried on, I get the impression that Kyron's case has led you all to believe that Portland is some creepy city with an underground child trafficking ring. The tour guide that markets the underground tour of the shanghai tunnels is generally regarded around Portland as a profiteering hustler because of his questionable account of the supposed dark history of the tunnels.

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_tunnels[/ame] - Not a very reliable article, considering it lacks citations.

 

[Jaxson]

I have always heard that the railroads were built with Chinese laborers because they were cheap. They lived in the underground tunnels because they were not allowed above ground after a curfew (dark, I think). They had everything down in those tunnels including there own jails. I have toured Seattle's underground tunnels which ar esaid to be the original city before the great fire. Pendleton underground tunnels are very interesting also. I don't know anything about shanghaiing but believe the tunnels have probably served quite a few purposes since they were originally dug. Maybe those Chinese railroad workers were getting even by kidnapping soldiers and transporting them to the orient....lol

 

[ThoughtFox]

This sounds like an urban legend and red herring to me, although it is a fascinating idea. Unless you can prove that TH drove into downtown Portland that day. But she said she was out on rural roads, so I guess not.

 

[Sooner Fan#1]

http://www.squidoo.com/jessiefosterapsychicinvestigation#module109827811

 

[funknut]

http://www.squidoo.com/jessiefosterapsychicinvestigation#module109827811

Looks like this person is "remote viewing" Kyron and underground wells, or tunnels using Google searches and reporting on this blog. Why the sudden interest in tunnels and wells, guys?

 

[Calliope]

http://www.history.ca/ontv/titledetails.aspx?titleid=114606

I admit it. I'm a History Channel Geek.

 

[CN2Souls]

Ok I know I am not supposed to be out of the basement posting this but I was not sure you would

see my thank you Kimster and Butterfly,

Not these tunnels, but another.....

Ok I will go back down in the basement, at Dreams and Visions thread.

:blowkiss:

 

[Haeve]

I'm glad someone else mentioned it already. It seems like this thread has gone on without anyone acknowledging that this is a big red herring. There is no recorded history of any actual "shanghai", or kidnapping ever happening in those tunnels; it is entirely an urban legend. With the way this thread has carried on, I get the impression that Kyron's case has led you all to believe that Portland is some creepy city with an underground child trafficking ring. The tour guide that markets the underground tour of the shanghai tunnels is generally regarded around Portland as a profiteering hustler because of his questionable account of the supposed dark history of the tunnels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_tunnels - Not a very reliable article, considering it lacks citations.

Thank you, thank you. :blowkiss: And yes, the Wikipedia article is not very good. It keeps getting embellished with both pro- and anti- "shanghai-ing" info, both without sources, so the offending opinion/original research keeps getting trimmed out again. If the Oregonian article debunking the myth still works, I think that's actually the best source. It's at the bottom of the external links section.

ETA: I still agree the Wikipedia article sucks, but it does have two citations. I'm the one who added the "needs more citations" tag back in 2007. I should just bite the bullet and rewrite the darn thing.

That said, I think what little is there is true, it's just that us Oregon editors are sticklers for citing everything in articles, hence the tag. And yes the link to the Oregonian article works, but it's from the Wayback Machine. The Oregonian unfortunately puts everything into a paid archive, a phenomenon we call "O-Vanish". </Wikipedia geekery>

 

[freefallzzzz]

I had posted this the night or day after Kyron went missing..

I don't believe he is in here as this is an active railroad but it is interesting about the people arrested..

map of tunnel is posted on first page of this thread

<snip from Washington County Sheriff Website>
dated Jan '09

What Does "No Trespassing" Mean to You?
Groups of People Just Don't Understand

There's a railroad tunnel that begins a little west of where NW Rock Creek Road joins NW Old Cornelius Pass Road; it's east end is in Multnomah County. The railroad and tunnel are the property of the Portland and Western Railroad Company. The tunnel is clearly marked with several "No Trespassing" signs — the signs also advise that there is video surveillance in the tunnel. About a year ago, a fire caused about a quarter million dollars damage in the tunnel.

Deputies recently responded to a call that there were six people in the tunnel. They found two adults and four juveniles — the adults were lodged in the jail and the juveniles were arrested and processed for Trespass I.

Soon after this incident, another call came in that there were six people in the tunnel. These people were all adults and lodged in jail for Trespass I. The very next day, there was yet another arrest.

http://www.co.washington.or.us/cgi/sonews/letter.pl?searchstring=jan09

 

[Skully]

Here's the map: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Locals post your pictures here

You know what is weird? My map I did for the dream thread has that exact area run though the triangle. I was asked if any part of it felt like an area of interest to me and my reply was "there is a river of water that runs though it."

 

[palladore]

Some days back another local person posted on another thread - I don't remember which one - a news link recounting an horrific accident that befell a Portland area man in January. He walked into his backyard - the ground opened up under his feet - and he fell into a forgotten, underground, water-filled cistern 35 feet deep, where he drowned. (Truly the stuff of nightmares.)

It happened about five miles SW of downtown Portland - an area that has been buiit up for a long time. It is easy to forget that the suburbs west of downtown Portland were all once farmland.

That said - LE has done numerous ground searches in the area of the Skyline School, and if Kyron had wandered off and met a similar fate, he would have been found.

[P.S. Can someone direct me to instructions on how to upload links?}