VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #5

[claudicici]

what's the rumor? ...I've missed the rumor !

 

[smartie74]

Alright, I'm doing some research on a motion to change venue in Virginia. Here's what I have so far:

My information is culled from Virginia Practice Criminal Procedure Series 2008 by Ronald J. Bacigal (Va. Prac. Criminal Procedure § 14:21 (2008 ed.))

Venue in a criminal proceeding in Virginia is located in the county or city where the offense was committed.

A motion for a change of venue must be made at least seven days before the day fixed for trial. Either the Commonwealth or the accused may move for a change of venue. The burden of proof is on the party making the motion.

A need for change of venue can be established in two ways: based on pre trial climate and during selecting of the jury pool.

In regards to pretrial climate, “Sheer volume” of media coverage does not establish that the accused cannot receive a fair and impartial trial. However, Affidavits from a diverse group of residents which disclose the polarization of public opinion may justify a change of venue.

During selection of a jury pool, the need for change of venue can be established as well. The difficulty or ease with which an impartial jury is selected may be evidence of community prejudice.

The court should grant a change of venue when the voir dire (jury selection) indicates that (1) there has been extensive publicity or widespread knowledge of the crime or the accused, (2) this publicity has generated a widespread feeling of prejudice within the community, and (3) this feeling of prejudice is reasonably certain to prevent a fair and impartial trial.

In considering a change of venue motion, the court must look to the conditions at the time of the trial, not to the conditions at the time of the crime.

Regarding the change of venue motion...I was out to dinner not long after this happened back in my hometown, which is not far from Farmville. I overheard some people talking about this crime and distinctly remember hearing "I hope he fries." Now, if one of Sam's attorneys were to hear this at a gas station, restaurant, wal-mart, etc.... Could they use that in their motion?

 

[claudicici]

Isn't the operative word here "may?" I'd say it's far more likely that Brown works to fill his own bank account. Umberto Eco had made conspiracy cool long before Brown anyway.

You've written earlier that you were of Jewish parentage on both sides. I've had Jewish friends remark re: the notion that Jews are secretly in control of the world that they never get invited to those secret meeting where they're supposed to learn how they can participate in that. I'm speculating here of course, but I'm guessing you probably don't correspond with or take marching orders from some secretive world-dominating Jewish cabal either. Are we really to believe that theories about Masonic control of the world are any more credible? Interesting then that they've decided that China ought to take it's turn dominating the world stage in the not so distant future. To throw us off the scent no doubt.

If all of this speculation regarding the occult, secret societies et al. has some point other than pure entertainment, would it be too much to ask to have it spelled out in some actual detail? If someone has something in the way of a theory or even multiple competing theories of how actual occult forces comes into play in any way in this case, I'm not saying I'm going to buy it, but I'd certainly like to read about it.

If you do share, then I hope you would at least offer something in the way of references from whatever take on reality you base your theory. What I mean to say is that if you think Sam is a murderer driven to murder by a demon who possessed him in some form that you elaborate on how that is believed to occur by people who believe that it is possible. Also, would you show as much as possible that the facts as known are consistent with that or what details are lacking that would be consistent.

Maybe I'm missing something, but so far despite miles of text devoted to all of that, I've seen little of more substance than things like a correspondence between the number 505 in the Kelley home's address and the Albuquerque area code. That's only significant if we ignore the literally billions of other things that don't correspond in some way. Should we be looking in Delaware, the "First State" for some important clue? After all, the murders happened on First Street. Maybe SKR has an account in the First National Bank of Albuquerque. If so, would that be significant?

I hope I'm not too out of line with that, but I am both genuinely interested and thoroughly skeptical.

i'm confused now i'm trying to understand this...are you saying that pax is saying that dan brown is part of the nwo or i thought pax was saying that dan brown made a cheesy action romance copying others peoples' research into history ....as far as the occult,secret societies or anything like that having to do with the case i don't think so either but dangrs brought up really interesting historic facts and symbols about farmville so i think that's more than entertainment that's history,that's research but if pax. was to write fiction he could use that

 

[dangrsmind]

Isn't the operative word here "may?" I'd say it's far more likely that Brown works to fill his own bank account. Umberto Eco had made conspiracy cool long before Brown anyway.

You've written earlier that you were of Jewish parentage on both sides. I've had Jewish friends remark re: the notion that Jews are secretly in control of the world that they never get invited to those secret meeting where they're supposed to learn how they can participate in that. I'm speculating here of course, but I'm guessing you probably don't correspond with or take marching orders from some secretive world-dominating Jewish cabal either. Are we really to believe that theories about Masonic control of the world are any more credible? Interesting then that they've decided that China ought to take it's turn dominating the world stage in the not so distant future. To throw us off the scent no doubt.

If all of this speculation regarding the occult, secret societies et al. has some point other than pure entertainment, would it be too much to ask to have it spelled out in some actual detail? If someone has something in the way of a theory or even multiple competing theories of how actual occult forces comes into play in any way in this case, I'm not saying I'm going to buy it, but I'd certainly like to read about it.

If you do share, then I hope you would at least offer something in the way of references from whatever take on reality you base your theory. What I mean to say is that if you think Sam is a murderer driven to murder by a demon who possessed him in some form that you elaborate on how that is believed to occur by people who believe that it is possible. Also, would you show as much as possible that the facts as known are consistent with that or what details are lacking that would be consistent.

Maybe I'm missing something, but so far despite miles of text devoted to all of that, I've seen little of more substance than things like a correspondence between the number 505 in the Kelley home's address and the Albuquerque area code. That's only significant if we ignore the literally billions of other things that don't correspond in some way. Should we be looking in Delaware, the "First State" for some important clue? After all, the murders happened on First Street. Maybe SKR has an account in the First National Bank of Albuquerque. If so, would that be significant?

I hope I'm not too out of line with that, but I am both genuinely interested and thoroughly skeptical.

But it is not just the 505 address.

How about the fact that Sam McCroskey called himself "LilDemonDog" a clear reference to the star Procyon and therefore the Sumerian demon Humbaba and then walked around town smelling like death? Humbaba also according to legend has breath that smells like death.

But sure write it off, don't pay attention to strange coincidences, because there is absolutely nothing to see here. It is fine with me if many members of this board are not interested in this stuff. I'd like to see a separate topic or conference area where the discussion will continue. However, if that doesn't work I can post this stuff elsewhere.

I've known about Chi and Preceps for about two weeks and I have done extensive research on these groups (as much as possible given they are secret) and the hidden symbolism of their "droppings". In case it is not obvious to those who are interested, I post only a small fraction of the things along these lines I have found here on this board. And I've left out some key elements on purpose.

 

[Angels_Not_Forgotten]

so OT i know, ( I apologize in advance ) but did we ever hear back about getting a forum to have multiple threads for things?

 

[gxm]

so OT i know, ( I apologize in advance ) but did we ever hear back about getting a forum to have multiple threads for things?

I'm not really sure what the protocol is but emailed yesterday asking how we go about getting the Farmville Murders moved to a forum. I haven't heard back yet but will let everyone know as soon as I do.

 

[gxm]

My honey is an engineer, and gets picked EVERY time he has a jury summons. They seem to like the cool-headed, logical approach in some cases, instead of all riled up and righteous personality!

I was always told that since I'm an artist I'd never be picked because they don't like "free thinkers." I've only been picked once. It was a horrible experience.

 

[coastal]

Wait, ya'll. Virginia is still America, where Sam is presumed to be innocent until he's been proven guilty of the crimes for which he stands accused. We can't just go trampling over his best interests in order to satisfy our curiosity about him, even if the law provides for that. It's one thing for Pax to try to establish a dialog with Sam that he can tap after the trial; a pretty face dropping by the jail for a friendly chat is another thing altogether.

I think. In my opinion. Just saying.

 

[AndresEscobar]

Regarding the change of venue motion...I was out to dinner not long after this happened back in my hometown, which is not far from Farmville. I overheard some people talking about this crime and distinctly remember hearing "I hope he fries." Now, if one of Sam's attorneys were to hear this at a gas station, restaurant, wal-mart, etc.... Could they use that in their motion?

I would say that could be used in support of their motion. The operative words in the legal standard are "Affidavits from a diverse group of residents which disclose the polarization of public opinion may justify a change of venue."

So, you wouldn't necessarily find Billy McFry, the world's biggest fan of the death penalty, saying he hop Sam fries. But, you'd approach a "diverse group of residents", which would be defined by Virginia case law, and have then make affidavits expressing either their specific opinions in relation to this case or their belief that public opinion has been extremely polarized on the case.

 

[dangrsmind]

i'm confused now i'm trying to understand this...are you saying that pax is saying that dan brown is part of the nwo or i thought pax was saying that dan brown made a cheesy action romance copying others peoples' research into history ....as far as the occult,secret societies or anything like that having to do with the case i don't think so either but dangrs brought up really interesting historic facts and symbols about farmville so i think that's more than entertainment that's history,that's research but if pax. was to write fiction he could use that

I referenced Dan Brown, not because I think he is a great author or even interesting, but rather because of an apparent connection through this alchemical symbol or Masonic code that I found both on his book and in the items these Longwood secret societies use. Coincidence? Sure it is possible that this symbol just appears on the bottom of Dan Brown's book by chance and on the Chi droppings because the makers (college students) were drunk or something. And maybe it is also a coincidence that this book was very likely released the day of the murders on 9/15/09 after numerous years since his previous book was released.

And FWIW I haven't read his book past the first sentence. The first sentence is "The secret is how to die." Interesting indeed.

The story of how I happen to have copy of this book I haven't read or how I noticed that symbol on the bottom is rather interesting actually. But perhaps best left for another day or another place.

PS It might also be worth mentioning that in order to determine that the symbol represented "distilled vinegar" I had to page through a 400+ page dictionary of alchemical symbols reviewing each and every page carefully and vinegar begins with "V"....

 

[Farmvillian]

Probably not, someone was on here the other day saying their son was in the same jail Sam was and that he saw Sam and that Sam was in a cell up front right in front of the guards station and his cell had a glass front so they could see him all the time. He doesnt leave that cell at all for any reason, no gen pop contact at all I am sure.

Kind of stupid.But I guess Sam has a bathroom in the cell? Toilet only I guess. So no privacy with the clear walls? Its jail I guess.

 

[blouAngel]

But it is not just the 505 address.

How about the fact that Sam McCroskey called himself "LilDemonDog" a clear reference to the star Procyon and therefore the Sumerian demon Humbaba and then walked around town smelling like death? Humbaba also according to legend has breath that smells like death.

But sure write it off, don't pay attention to strange coincidences, because there is absolutely nothing to see here. It is fine with me if many members of this board are not interested in this stuff. I'd like to see a separate topic or conference area where the discussion will continue. However, if that doesn't work I can post this stuff elsewhere.

I've known about Chi and Preceps for about two weeks and I have done extensive research on these groups (as much as possible given they are secret) and the hidden symbolism of their "droppings". In case it is not obvious to those who are interested, I post only a small fraction of the things along these lines I have found here on this board. And I've left out some key elements on purpose.

Really, nothing? I'm a bit disappointed in you after all you've posted here. Did you miss where I write that I was genuinely interested. Your postings are what kept me looking at this thread for a long time.

 

[blouAngel]

I referenced Dan Brown, not because I think he is a great author or even interesting, but rather because of an apparent connection through this alchemical symbol or Masonic code that I found both on his book and in the items these Longwood secret societies use. Coincidence? Sure it is possible that this symbol just appears on the bottom of Dan Brown's book by chance and on the Chi droppings because the makers (college students) were drunk or something. And maybe it is also a coincidence that this book was very likely released the day of the murders on 9/15/09 after numerous years since his previous book was released.

And FWIW I haven't read his book past the first sentence. The first sentence is "The secret is how to die." Interesting indeed.

The story of how I happen to have copy of this book I haven't read or how I noticed that symbol on the bottom is rather interesting actually. But perhaps best left for another day or another place.

PS It might also be worth mentioning that in order to determine that the symbol represented "distilled vinegar" I had to page through a 400+ page dictionary of alchemical symbols reviewing each and every page carefully and vinegar begins with "V"....

A bit dated, but these are from before Mr. Brown released his latest book. Maybe we ought to see how things have changed in the last month or two.

Average Daily Mortality in the U.S.
for Victims of All Ages, 2001
Cause Number of Deaths Per Day

Major Cardiovascular Disease 2527
Malignancies 1517
Motor Vehicle Accidents 120
All Other Accidents 158
Respiratory Diseases 338
Influenza, Pneumonia
& Tuberculosis 172
Septicemia 88
HIV Disease 39
Diabetes mellitus 196
Liver Diseases 74
Kidney Diseases 110
Parkinson's Disease 45
Alzheimer's Disease 148
All Other Diseases 565
Assault (homicide) 56
Suicide 84
Surgery/Medical Care 8
Firearm Injury 79
Alcohol-induced Death 53
Other Drug-induced Death 52
Injury at Work 15
Total all causes 6620

 

[PAXIMUS]

But it is not just the 505 address.

How about the fact that Sam McCroskey called himself "LilDemonDog" a clear reference to the star Procyon and therefore the Sumerian demon Humbaba and then walked around town smelling like death? Humbaba also according to legend has breath that smells like death.

But sure write it off, don't pay attention to strange coincidences, because there is absolutely nothing to see here. It is fine with me if many members of this board are not interested in this stuff. I'd like to see a separate topic or conference area where the discussion will continue. However, if that doesn't work I can post this stuff elsewhere.

I've known about Chi and Preceps for about two weeks and I have done extensive research on these groups (as much as possible given they are secret) and the hidden symbolism of their "droppings". In case it is not obvious to those who are interested, I post only a small fraction of the things along these lines I have found here on this board. And I've left out some key elements on purpose.

Youre not going anywhere, stay right here and keep doing your thing. I love all your posts and I also love what everyone else contributes, everyone has played their own role and its worked out well, this is a great group.

 

[Angels_Not_Forgotten]

ha, just try to get away from us...we'll follow you!!

 

[CharlieChan]

Pax-- Good luck trying to attend that trial. It could last a year. The easiest and prolly #1 tactic of defense lawyers is to just extend the trial with endless motions. Let all the witnesses forget the facts. I read that Truman Capote even brought his own whiskey with him during the "In Cold Blood" trials cause he was afraid that Kansas was dry--LOL.----Virginian--There is no privacy in jail. You poop in public. There is no toilet seat (it's stainless steel). The most annoying thing for me--er I mean a friend of mine--was the fact that the lights are always on. Their's also no ice.

 

[blouAngel]

Pax-- Good luck trying to attend that trial. It could last a year. The easiest and prolly #1 tactic of defense lawyers is to just extend the trial with endless motions. Let all the witnesses forget the facts. I read that Truman Capote even brought his own whiskey with him during the "In Cold Blood" trials cause he was afraid that Kansas was dry--LOL.----Virginian--There is no privacy in jail. You poop in public. There is no toilet seat (it's stainless steel). The most annoying thing for me--er I mean a friend of mine--was the fact that the lights are always on. Their's also no ice.

If there's no ice, how did your friend keep his beer cold?

 

[PAXIMUS]

Didn't Holy Blood, Holy Grail rely on forged evidence? Perhaps the authors were sincere, but they drew upon manufactured documents.

Its never been proven that they were forged or manufactured, those who wish to supress the information in the book have made those claims and even if they are right it doesnt matter because there are plenty of other things that prove the claims made in the book. The fact is Jesus was very likely married and had children, I know that is offensive to many Christians but there is plenty of evidence to support the theory.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Pax-- Good luck trying to attend that trial. It could last a year. The easiest and prolly #1 tactic of defense lawyers is to just extend the trial with endless motions. Let all the witnesses forget the facts. I read that Truman Capote even brought his own whiskey with him during the "In Cold Blood" trials cause he was afraid that Kansas was dry--LOL.----Virginian--There is no privacy in jail. You poop in public. There is no toilet seat (it's stainless steel). The most annoying thing for me--er I mean a friend of mine--was the fact that the lights are always on. Their's also no ice.

Well that is the problem, trying to time my trip to Farmville to catch the trial. As you say there could be all kinds of stalling tactics played by the defense and I could end up staying there a long time and with my wife pregnant and supposed to deliver sometime around the first of the year that throws a wrench in to it all also in addition to the fact that I am funding this out of pocket and only have so much money I can invest in it unless I can get a publisher to give me some money up front which is possible and something I have done many times but I prefer to work freelance because then I dont have to listen to someone else tell me how something should be written.

We will just have to see how things play out between now and then.

 

[ericclimbs]

what's the rumor? ...I've missed the rumor !

No rumors I was just kidding Tapu over the "dismemberment" thing from awhile back. Sorry to be confusing!