VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #7

[PAXIMUS]

PAXIMUS - One thing is certain, your friend must have a very strong heart. Is he in danger today?

Jay is a very good guy and a wonderful dedicated family man, he and I played college football together and he is to this day one of the best and most loyal friends I ever had, I worried myself sick when he told me he was leaving to go live with the Hells Angels for 3 years in an under cover operation and would have to transform his entire being to make it work, he actually became a biker mentally, physically and literally and lived and rode with them fo 3 years, leaving his family and friends behind and couldnt have contact with us. I actually seen him at a bar when he was in the middle of the operation and he was with his HA biker gang there and I approached him STUPIDLY on my part and he had to ac as if he didnt know me and actually threw me up against a wall and slapped me around a bit just to make it look as if I was some *advertiser censored* sticking my nose were it didnt belong and his biker buddies were impressed at the time. We still joke about tha but I dont like the scar I was left with from it LOL.

He wanted to put these people away as they gang rape women and run guns and drugs and he did what he had to do to make that happen.

 

[tapu]

Hey, just what it sounds like. But then, a skip tracer isn't after me. Just the creditors....

Meanwhile, anyone can find me. Just come on up here to 257 Parley Ave in Brunswick, Maine, and ring the bell, or come around to the back and just walk right in, and then come through the house and see me sitting here in the third bedroom, on the bed, with my laptop right here. I'm wearing jammies.



(Just kidding. False info. hee hee Oh, except for the bed and laptop and jammies. And Maine.)

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Skip tracers are professionally trained to track people down, much like a private investigator, they learn the many ways and tricks that can be used to find someone who is hiding from them, mostly they work for LE and bill collection and bail bondsmen agencies.

A good WIKI about them here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skiptrace


I worked for both a bail bonds agency and a debt collection agency as a skip tracer for many years tracking down people who take measures to hide their existence, we have ways of finding them but because of non disclosure agreements I signed I cant really speak openly about what tactics we employ for that. In my capacity now working for the newspress I do a lot of skip tracing to track down people for stories the reporters write, that is my main responisbility in the position I hold now.

Being a skip tracer is a very fun and interesting job and I guess they could be referred to as the ultimate sleuths.

Skip tracing is also an important tool for attornies who need to track down witnesses etc who want to avoid being forced to testify, this is something that has been very valuable to me in my law practice.

Now this is scaring me. In other words, just having a good anti-virus and spy program is hardly enough? I swear whenever you find something that's fun to do, not hurting anybody, there's always something new to worry about.

I want dangrsmind's avatar and I was only kidding - I am a man. Not to mention, I'm a good friend of a group of Outlaws.

 

[tapu]

Oh, great, now I will never fully believe one way or the other, that you are a man, or a woman.

(I had this weird, strangely strongly upsetting experience a few years ago where I was buddy-buddy with someone on the internet, in a similar forum to this, and we were closer than all of us are here because we "knew" each other for more than a year, with daily communication via not only posts, but in private email, and all along he represented himself as a man, but then revealed that he was a woman. I could not get over it. I told a few people I knew, but no one seemed to understand how unsettling it was.)

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Oh, great, now I will never fully believe one way or the other, that you are a man, or a woman.

(I had this weird, strangely strongly upsetting experience a few years ago where I was buddy-buddy with someone on the internet, in a similar forum to this, and we were closer than all of us are here because we "knew" each other for more than a year, with daily communication via not only posts, but in private email, and all along he represented himself as a man, but then revealed that he was a woman. I could not get over it. I told a few people I knew, but no one seemed to understand how unsettling it was.)

That is weird. It's unusual, after all that time that the tone of the message, a story, something would not have given the gender identity away.

When my son was four he had a playmate at this child center he attended two times a week for a half day - to play, do crafts, etc. He gravitated toward a blond kid with longish hair, slim build. She was a girl who, come to think of it, always wore tomboy clothing and usually a cap. I would describe her as a pretty child but not frilly or girlie. One day, many years later, I asked him if he remembers that girl you loved playing with at _____ center when you were little. He shouted out, HE WAS A SHE? I said, yes, that was a girl you played with. He said, no it wasn't. I said, yes she was. The look of disconnect on his face was something else. I said, you two had a lot of fun together - when you're four that's all that matters. I always assumed he knew his playmate was a girl. :crazy:

 

[tapu]

That is weird. It's unusual, after all that time that the tone of the message, a story, something would not have given the gender identity away.

When my son was four he had a playmate at this child center he attended two times a week for a half day - to play, do crafts, etc. He gravitated toward a blond kid with longish hair, slim build. She was a girl who, come to think of it, always wore tomboy clothing and usually a cap. I would describe her as a pretty child but not frilly or girlie. One day, many years later, I asked him if he remembers that girl you loved playing with at _____ center when you were little. He shouted out, HE WAS A SHE? I said, yes, that was a girl you played with. He said, no it wasn't. I said, yes she was. The look of disconnect on his face was something else. I said, you two had a lot of fun together - when you're four that's all that matters. I always assumed he knew his playmate was a girl. :crazy:

Can I have your son's phone number? He'd understand....

 

[RockDawg]

Hey , does anyone know what they mean by a thread being "pulled for review" ? VA- Morgan Dana Harrington, 20, Charlottesville #11 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[dangrsmind]

Hey , does anyone know what they mean by a thread being "pulled for review" ? VA- Morgan Dana Harrington, 20, Charlottesville #11 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Interesting. If I was interested in that thread, I'd look in Google's cache...

 

[dangrsmind]

Now this is scaring me. In other words, just having a good anti-virus and spy program is hardly enough? I swear whenever you find something that's fun to do, not hurting anybody, there's always something new to worry about.

I want dangrsmind's avatar and I was only kidding - I am a man. Not to mention, I'm a good friend of a group of Outlaws.

For now you only have to worry about this sort of thing if you are a criminal, computer virus author, or terrorist. But some worry that in the future this sort of technique might find more widespread use on average citizens with unpopular points of view. YMMV.

 

[dangrsmind]

Is there background on Sam and his sister's upbringing anywhere? I've read that he was 20 back in Sept. of '09 when the crimes were committed, came to VA from CA to meet his girlfriend of a couple months and considered himself a rapper of horrorcore music. His sister claims he is nonviolent with no previous police record. The sister claims she last spoke to him on Sept 5, the day before he took off on "a hugely anticipated trip".

With very little knowledge about the case, going with the simplist theory idea, he was rejected by Emma. He reportedly told the cab driver that he had looked and found a text from another guy professing his love to her - like that's her fault. Since the relationship did not pan out the way he wanted it too, he killed her, her family and friend.

How did the SKR person know to call LE on September 18?
What is the circumstance surrounding his call to LE about the noise in the basement?
Were the girls already dead when he told LE that they were at the movies at 11:58 PM on the 17th?

It is interesting when you ponder Jay Dobyn's story, someone who is a risk taker. He wanted to put to good use that trait and to uncover the criminal doings of the HA. After time passed, he found himself being swept into it to the point he no longer recognized himself. He was already a grown man but by being so immeshed with that deviant subculture he became affected negatively. Just imagine then, the dangerous influence that any deviant subculture would inflict upon a child.

When I looked at the pictures of those young people, I was surprised at how attractive (ornaments removed) most of them are and puzzeled as to why they would want to walk down that road. The young victims of Sam claim to have felt secure regarding their parent's love for them. The reason for their leanings are not clear to me. Clearly too much choice was extended to them in making their own unwise decisions imo. Power reversals - child telling the parent what to do versus parent putting their foot down regarding their child's requests. Take my hand mom and let's walk into hell together, kay? Kay. :crazy:

Is it fair to say that we become what we do/think about the most.
The reasons for our choices are not always clear.

Lot of questions here....

As far as the parents and upbringing, Sam and his sister were raised in Hayward and Castro Valley California. Not the ghetto by any stretch, but very arguably these are less desirable suburban areas. The father is in a metal band called S&M, the mother was reported to be very over protective of Sam who had difficulty in school and was home schooled (as was one of the victims Emma BTW). Sarah has stated online that her mother was sitting around the house getting wasted and there were some rumors that she cheated on the father leading to a split shortly before the murders. A lot of this is unconfirmed of course...

SickTanick (owner of SKR) stated that he received a call from someone else that had talked to Sam directly about the murders. Everyone seems to believe this was someone calling himself Sinnyster associated with another record label called Wicked Intent Records (WIR). Law enforcement does not seem to question this story, and I have to assume that LE knows more than we do here because they have access to the phone records, computers, MySpace accounts etc. outlined in the search warrants.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Is there background on Sam and his sister's upbringing anywhere? I've read that he was 20 back in Sept. of '09 when the crimes were committed, came to VA from CA to meet his girlfriend of a couple months and considered himself a rapper of horrorcore music. His sister claims he is nonviolent with no previous police record. The sister claims she last spoke to him on Sept 5, the day before he took off on "a hugely anticipated trip".

With very little knowledge about the case, going with the simplist theory idea, he was rejected by Emma. He reportedly told the cab driver that he had looked and found a text from another guy professing his love to her - like that's her fault. Since the relationship did not pan out the way he wanted it too, he killed her, her family and friend.

How did the SKR person know to call LE on September 18?
What is the circumstance surrounding his call to LE about the noise in the basement?
Were the girls already dead when he told LE that they were at the movies at 11:58 PM on the 17th?

It is interesting when you ponder Jay Dobyn's story, someone who is a risk taker. He wanted to put to good use that trait and to uncover the criminal doings of the HA. After time passed, he found himself being swept into it to the point he no longer recognized himself. He was already a grown man but by being so immeshed with that deviant subculture he became affected negatively. Just imagine then, the dangerous influence that any deviant subculture would inflict upon a child.

When I looked at the pictures of those young people, I was surprised at how attractive (ornaments removed) most of them are and puzzeled as to why they would want to walk down that road. The young victims of Sam claim to have felt secure regarding their parent's love for them. The reason for their leanings are not clear to me. Clearly too much choice was extended to them in making their own unwise decisions imo. Power reversals - child telling the parent what to do versus parent putting their foot down regarding their child's requests. Take my hand mom and let's walk into hell together, kay? Kay. :crazy:

Is it fair to say that we become what we do/think about the most.
The reasons for our choices are not always clear.

I will answer this in more detail after dinner but we do know both parents seemingly used drugs and his father told him not to come back if he went to VA. OBVIOUSLY you are now very well caught up with the case and now as you join in ourr discussions you will find some of the more interesting aspects of it that we normally talk about among other things as we wait for the trial, you have done very well in catching up though!

Also re JAY, he was an all american wide reciever football player at the university of arizona, I played in the team with him he was a senior my freshman year and he loved those games with 60,000 fans screaming when we played and he said that he needed that after he got out of college and after a short career in the NFL he said he needed a career with the same kind of excitement that his college football days afforded him and deep undercover LE was what he thought would provide that excitement, his first month on the job he infiltrated a major cocaine smuggling ring on the AZ Mexico border and quickly got in to a gun fight with one of the perps and ended up shot in the chest and came within minutes of dying. While recovering he became hooked on opiate pain killers and had horrible withdrawls but made it through it and continued his carrer working several more years doing undercover drug buys until he was finally assigned to the operation of infiltrating the Hells Angels. He has had a wild life and I know him very well and I know for certain everything he writes in his book is true, he isnt a bull****ter nor did he write the book for sensationalism, its a very true and detailed account of what his life was like riding with the Hells Angels when at any time his cover could have been blown and they would have killed him. He finally got patched in to the Hells Angels which is not easy to do, when he and another agent told the Hells Angels leader that they were going to Mexico to kill a rival gang member from the Mongol Bike Gang so that he could earn his stripes. So he and the other agent took off for a week and staged a murder out in the desert using cows blood and took pictures and retured to the Hells Angels clubhouse with pictures and a Mongols Biker leather vest as proof and he then earned his Hells Angels patch, the first time an undercover has ever been patched in to the HA, Jay had them so convinced that he was the real deal that Sonny Barger, who is now like 80 years old, the founder of the HA, handpicked Jay do pull guard duty outside of Sonny's house lol.

Its really a great story, if I knew you guys I would give you my free copy so you wouldnt have to spend the money on it but its well worth it and maybe you can find it at a library. Its one of the best true account stories I have ever read, a lot of inside information and detail about how bikers live which always sort of fascinated me. Its a very ugly life but even Jay said those guys are some of the most loyal and freedom loving people he has ever met and even though a lot of them are criminals he had a real hard time betraying them in the end, in fact his bosses at the ATF several times had real concern that Jay had actually turned to the other side and actually become a real biker himself and abandoned the operation, but he didnt, he was just simply THAT CONVINCING. I saw him a few weeks ago for lunch and he is doing well but he has to watch his back constantly because the HA is always hunting him and his family down and they wont ever forget it. His life will be in danger for the rest of his time.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Now this is scaring me. In other words, just having a good anti-virus and spy program is hardly enough? I swear whenever you find something that's fun to do, not hurting anybody, there's always something new to worry about.

I want dangrsmind's avatar and I was only kidding - I am a man. Not to mention, I'm a good friend of a group of Outlaws.

I dont think you have much to worry about, as a matter of ethics I would never skip trace anyone unless it was employment related in my capacity as an employee and if you are generally careful about what sites you visit you probably will never have any problems with anyone bothering you on the net.

Me and Dangersmind on the other hand, with all the crazy **** we know and talk about, likely have FBI files though and I largely blame blouAngel for that for turning us in to his lackeys at Langley.:crazy:

 

[PAXIMUS]

Hey , does anyone know what they mean by a thread being "pulled for review" ? VA- Morgan Dana Harrington, 20, Charlottesville #11 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

WOW thats pretty heavy, I wonder whats going on. I know you need to watch what you say on here because I dont think they would have any problem turing your info over to the authorities without much fight as this is very much a pro LE and pro victims site which is why I get put in time outs because while I certainly have no intention of protecting GUILTY perps I am a tireless advocate for the rights of those accused of crimes and that doesnt sit well with 99.99999999999% of the members and admin of this site. AND THAT IS OK its their site and they can run it as they please I do appreciate this forum and very much enjoy it I just wish people would understand that I am not a bad guy because I want to keep innocent people from being locked up like animals and taken away from their children and loved ones for something they didnt do and YES THAT HAPPENS MORE THAN YOU KNOW!

IMO protecting the rights of the accused and things like habeas corpus and due process ARE THE VERY BEDROCK of a FREE SOCIETY, sadly I often find myself alone and attacked by the mobs and hoards of emotional unthinking people when I express such a sentiment but when one of those people are ever accused of a crime the first people they thank are criminal defense attornies and rights of he accused watchdogs like myself and people like Alan Dershowitz.

I have no sympathy and much anger towards those who commit AND ARE FOUND GUILTY of crimes against humanity but we MUST ensure that those accused of crimes are protected from the over zealous among us because the number of people in prison who are innocent is waaaaaaaaaay to high and it is a blemish on our society that will never go away until more people show the courage to stand up and fight for the rights of those accused of crimes and force the state to a higher burden of proof in criminal proceedings.

A lot of people like to go on and on the minute a suspect is arrested expressing such distasteful comments like fry em or lock them up and let them rot in a cold dark cell but when those very people get accused themselves they run to the very people they hate so much, criminal defense attornies and the ACLU.

I am one of the least popular members of this forum outside of this thread because of my willingness to defend the rights of the accused and a zero tolerance for those who convict the accused not in a court of law but in the court of public opinion. Thats a very dangerous mind set and mob mentality at work and it is more frightening to me than even the most henious of criminals and thugs walking the streets today, look no further than Germany under Hitler to understand my reasons for why I feel as I do.


DM can you cache that case for me I cant seem to find it. Please.

 

[dangrsmind]

WOW thats pretty heavy, I wonder whats going on. I know you need to watch what you say on here because I dont think they would have any problem turing your info over to the authorities without much fight as this is very much a pro LE and pro victims site which is why I get put in time outs because while I certainly have no intention of protecting GUILTY perps I am a tireless advocate for the rights of those accused of crimes and that doesnt sit well with 99.99999999999% of the members and admin of this site. AND THAT IS OK its their site and they can run it as they please I do appreciate this forum and very much enjoy it I just wish people would understand that I am not a bad guy because I want to keep innocent people from being locked up like animals and taken away from their children and loved ones for something they didnt do and YES THAT HAPPENS MORE THAN YOU KNOW!

IMO protecting the rights of the accused and things like habeas corpus and due process ARE THE VERY BEDROCK of a FREE SOCIETY, sadly I often find myself alone and attacked by the mobs and hoards of emotional unthinking people when I express such a sentiment but when one of those people are ever accused of a crime the first people they thank are criminal defense attornies and rights of he accused watchdogs like myself and people like Alan Dershowitz.

I have no sympathy and much anger towards those who commit AND ARE FOUND GUILTY of crimes against humanity but we MUST ensure that those accused of crimes are protected from the over zealous among us because the number of people in prison who are innocent is waaaaaaaaaay to high and it is a blemish on our society that will never go away until more people show the courage to stand up and fight for the rights of those accused of crimes and force the state to a higher burden of proof in criminal proceedings.

A lot of people like to go on and on the minute a suspect is arrested expressing such distasteful comments like fry em or lock them up and let them rot in a cold dark cell but when those very people get accused themselves they run to the very people they hate so much, criminal defense attornies and the ACLU.

I am one of the least popular members of this forum outside of this thread because of my willingness to defend the rights of the accused and a zero tolerance for those who convict the accused not in a court of law but in the court of public opinion. Thats a very dangerous mind set and mob mentality at work and it is more frightening to me than even the most henious of criminals and thugs walking the streets today, look no further than Germany under Hitler to understand my reasons for why I feel as I do.


DM can you cache that case for me I cant seem to find it. Please.

I've captured part of the Google cache, but not all of it. It seems like just the first and last pages of the thread are cached by Google. While I might be able to excavate more from some other places, that would entail way too much work to do on a lark on a Sunday night...

However based on reading just the very end of the thread it seems maybe some evidence about the murder that LE wanted kept quiet was posted to the thread. I can't say for sure.

 

[Salem]

Please continue here: Four People Murdered in VA College Town #8 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

TIA,

Salem