Identified! VA - Giles Co., skeletal remains in Mountain Lake, Sep'08 - Samuel Felder

[marion]

Has anyone seen a good photo of the other side of the ring? The N/M C side. A video at one of the links showed a quick glimpse of it but not enough to study it in detail. Does anyone else see the Comedy/Tragedy masks in the CA side of the ring? Maybe this person was into drama/acting. Of course, that may not really mean much because I remember when I got my class ring we could pick whatever we wanted to be on it, ie. the masks, even if we weren't really in the drama club or theater, just if we liked to watch theater (rather lame, imo). Of course, in 1904 the stipulations may have been more strict.

My first thought with the N/M C was North Carolina as well. However, it could also be MC for Mechanical College. The A could be "Agriculture" so you'd have C--- Agricultural and Mechanicl College. "North Carolina" seems more likely though.

I know they are saying 1930s but I'm thinking more like mid-1920s. I'll have to look over this more when I get home tonight. I'm pretty good at dating things, just wish they'd show us some better pics of everything including the wallet and belt.

Btw, I'm almost positive the initials inside the ring are for the company who made it.

 

[raeann]

I can read those letters on the buckle and case several different ways...

The NC College of Agriculture's yearbook was called The Agromeck. I've found parts of the student catalog for 1904 online, but not the entire thing.

Even knowing what they said the letters on the silver items were, I couldn't really tell for sure. I would not be able to say they were actual monograms rather than a design, although I would assume that they are initials. I have been searching for old missing persons cases, no luck at all so far.

 

[tinytown]

My husband and I had our honeymoon at Mountain Lake Resort in December of 1987. It was a beautiful resort!

 

[raeann]

Has anyone seen a good photo of the other side of the ring? The N/M C side. A video at one of the links showed a quick glimpse of it but not enough to study it in detail. Does anyone else see the Comedy/Tragedy masks in the CA side of the ring? Maybe this person was into drama/acting. Of course, that may not really mean much because I remember when I got my class ring we could pick whatever we wanted to be on it, ie. the masks, even if we weren't really in the drama club or theater, just if we liked to watch theater (rather lame, imo). Of course, in 1904 the stipulations may have been more strict.

My first thought with the N/M C was North Carolina as well. However, it could also be MC for Mechanical College. The A could be "Agriculture" so you'd have C--- Agricultural and Mechanicl College. "North Carolina" seems more likely though.

I know they are saying 1930s but I'm thinking more like mid-1920s. I'll have to look over this more when I get home tonight. I'm pretty good at dating things, just wish they'd show us some better pics of everything including the wallet and belt.

Btw, I'm almost positive the initials inside the ring are for the company who made it.

The last link from my above post is the only one I found with pictures of the silver items and coins plus the ring. It shows the NC/MC side, but it is worn and really hard to see.

BTW where in Mississippi? My son is in school down there.

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

New clues in the Mountain Lake mystery

Posted Sep23, 2008 at 02:55 PM

Since news broke Sunday that human skeletal remains were found in the dried-up Mountain Lake, people everywhere have been trying to figure out who they belonged to.

A Vinton woman thinks she may know.

The woman, who is in her 70s and asked that her name not be used by The Roanoke Times, remembers her mother telling her that she had two beaus in the 1920s.

She married one of them, who later became the caller's father.

When the other found out, her mother told her and her sister, he jumped into Mountain Lake. His body was never recovered.

The woman couldn't remember the man's name, but her sister told her she remembered that his last name was Foutz and that he worked at Mountain Lake.

More here: http://blogs.roanoke.com/newrivernotebook/2008/09/new_clues_in_the_mountain_lake.html

 

[shadowangel]

I've only been able to find one report of a death on the lake between 1920 and 1935, and that was an 18 year-old girl in '33. I did find a report that pianist John Powell nearly died on the lake in '25 while rescuing a girl from drowning.

 

[marion]

New clues in the Mountain Lake mystery

Posted Sep23, 2008 at 02:55 PM

Since news broke Sunday that human skeletal remains were found in the dried-up Mountain Lake, people everywhere have been trying to figure out who they belonged to.

A Vinton woman thinks she may know.

The woman, who is in her 70s and asked that her name not be used by The Roanoke Times, remembers her mother telling her that she had two beaus in the 1920s.

She married one of them, who later became the caller's father.

When the other found out, her mother told her and her sister, he jumped into Mountain Lake. His body was never recovered.

The woman couldn't remember the man's name, but her sister told her she remembered that his last name was Foutz and that he worked at Mountain Lake.

More here: http://blogs.roanoke.com/newrivernotebook/2008/09/new_clues_in_the_mountain_lake.html

Hmmm.... so if that is the guy, then it's probably not his ring, given that he'd probably be about 40 years old give or take a few years in the 1920s. He would've been awfully old to be fighting over a girl, but then again, stranger things have happened. Makes more sense that it isn't him.

I did find a Samuel L. Foutz, 38 yo, in the area in 1920 which would be about right but he has a wife and a bunch of kids, so I doubt it's him.

ETA: The article says investigators think the initials on the buckle and case are SCF. I disagree. There's no way the second letter could be a C because there's a break in it, if that makes sense. A C should be one whole line, much like the first letter, the S, is. While I'm not 100% sure, I'm seeing STF. If you look at Fig. 174 in this book from 1903 it might make more sense: http://books.google.com/books?id=IvcrL1b05z0C&pg=PA163&dq=engraving+Initials&as_brr=1&ei=sgDbSPDFLoGCywSpi-HrDg#PPA171,M1 The only problem with that T is that the top left squiggly goes to the left instead of the right. May not be a T, but no way its a C.

Haven't been able to track down the exact font yet.

 

[marion]

Looks like the shoe heels are actually "O'Sullivan's Safety Cushion" heels. Here's a history of the company which began in Lowell, Massachusetts and moved to Virginia in 1932: http://www.osul.com/Default.asp?page=529

From what I can tell, the heels were made on up into the 1930s. The people at that link might be able to help LE further date the shoes. Of course, they may have already narrowed down the date, in which case contacting the O'Sullivan people would be a waste of time.

ETA: While I'm not 100% sure, the shoes are probably from McCreery's & Co. department store which closed in 1953 (according to this website: http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2007/sep/02/prices_run_high_collectible_american_art_pottery/ )

Really need to see the shoes up close to tell anything else....

 

[shadowangel]

The belt buckle and the case seem to me to be a set...Seemingly the same metal, same style of lettering (the middle letter looks like an "F" to me).
Strange that the shoes are practically intact (except for the shoestrings) while the belt is almost entirely decomposed.

 

[KivaSupporter]

I believe it is J rather than T.

What do you think?

Hmmm.... so if that is the guy, then it's probably not his ring, given that he'd probably be about 40 years old give or take a few years in the 1920s. He would've been awfully old to be fighting over a girl, but then again, stranger things have happened. Makes more sense that it isn't him.

I did find a Samuel L. Foutz, 38 yo, in the area in 1920 which would be about right but he has a wife and a bunch of kids, so I doubt it's him.

ETA: The article says investigators think the initials on the buckle and case are SCF. I disagree. There's no way the second letter could be a C because there's a break in it, if that makes sense. A C should be one whole line, much like the first letter, the S, is. While I'm not 100% sure, I'm seeing STF. If you look at Fig. 174 in this book from 1903 it might make more sense: http://books.google.com/books?id=IvcrL1b05z0C&pg=PA163&dq=engraving+Initials&as_brr=1&ei=sgDbSPDFLoGCywSpi-HrDg#PPA171,M1 The only problem with that T is that the top left squiggly goes to the left instead of the right. May not be a T, but no way its a C.

Haven't been able to track down the exact font yet.

 

[carrie]

The belt buckle and the case seem to me to be a set...Seemingly the same metal, same style of lettering (the middle letter looks like an "F" to me).
Strange that the shoes are practically intact (except for the shoestrings) while the belt is almost entirely decomposed.

It seems strange to me that anything is left of the shoes or belt buckle. I don't know that much about the subject, but I'd have thought if bones were mostly gone, then the wallet, belt, shoes, everything but the metal items, the coins, ring buckle and cigarette case would be long gone too.

 

[carrie]

Occasionally, monograms on items were done in such a fashion that the middle letter was slightly larger than the rest, indicating this was in fact the last intial, not the middle. For example, "James Alan Williams" might appear as JWA.

My adoptive Mother, who was born in 1927, had some various pieces of jewelry with initials on them, or made of initials. They were all like you describe. Her last name was the middle initial. I think it was bigger than the intials to the left and right, though, whereas in the photos these are the same size. Besides that though, the font was very similar to the ones on the buckle and cigarette case, those swirly fancy letters, it's hard to tell what they were without having something with which to compare the letters.

It looks like this man must have been pretty well off financially to me, it would be surprising if they can't ID him or don't have records of a disappearance.

I wonder how long people back then wore class rings, I mean to what age usually.

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

Snipped from a most recent article dated 9/25/2008:

<snip>

With every little piece of new evidence comes answers.

The latest: an antique pocket watch made in 1876.

“We have been able to determine by speaking to an antique dealer that this person was probably well off,” said Skidmore.

Based on all the evidence collected at the scene investigators believe the person was a man. “I feel confident we are going to find out who this person was,” said Skidmore.

Two of the biggest leads so far: the initials S.G.F engraved on the person’s belongings and a class ring.

On the front it reads 04. On the sides: M.C. and C.A.

</snip>

Full article at link: http://www.wsls.com/sls/news/local/...continues_investigators_find_new_leads/18151/

 

[shadowangel]

From the August 29th, 1922 Danville (Va) Bee:

Crockett Lasueur, one of the "most prominent and wealthy farmers in southwest Virginia" disappeared from his home near Bristol Va (Bristol is some 125 miles southwest of Mountain Lake). He was reported as having "appeared to be suffering under a nervous strain". Its stated that Lasueur had business interests in different parts of Virginia.

I have yet to find any other mention of him at this point.

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

There is a Homer Crockett LeSueur born in 1896 in Bristol, VA. I don't know if he is the same Crockett LeSueur you mention above though. If it is, he died in 1986. There is also a Homer Crockett LeSueur listed in the 1917-1918 WWI draft registration cards.

5 Homer Crockett LeSueur b: Dec 10, 1896 in Bristol, Montgomery Co. Virginia d: Jun 1986 in Silver Spring, Montgomery Co. Virginia

Source: http://www.baberfamilytree.org/usa/non2.htm

 

[shadowangel]

I'd think Homer was too young, from the article. To be that wealthy, I'd assume he was older, around 40 to 50. Of course, that's just my opinion, of course. A son, maybe?

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

Ahh, yes, a son perhaps. His (Homer's) father was Harvey Crockett LaSueur.

ETA: According to this website http://phillip.l.sublett.com/family/tree-Chastain.htm Harvey Crockett LaSueur died August 28, 1922.

Harvey (Henry) Crocket LeSueur (born November 10, 1865; died August 28, 1922) married Arabella (Mae) Hall.

Children: Marvin Edward LeSueur (born October 12, 1894, Montgomery County, Virginia) married Katherine DeGroat.
Homer Crockett LeSueur (born December 10, 1896, Montgomery County, Virginia; died June 1986, Montgomery County, Virginia) married Jennie Phillipps on December 1, 1931.
Frank Baker LeSueur (born April 17, 1899, Montgomery County, Virginia; died March 1982, Bristol County, Virginia) married Grace Virginia Gray on June 10, 1929.

I'd think Homer was too young, from the article. To be that wealthy, I'd assume he was older, around 40 to 50. Of course, that's just my opinion, of course. A son, maybe?

 

[shadowangel]

Harvey sounds like the guy...I guess they found him, and not at the bottom of a lake.

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

Well, I'm not so sure about that. I'd still like to run this through to the end. I haven't found any place of burial for Harvey and it could be that he left that day (28 or 29 of August 1922) and he never returned home and they never found his body, but, they assumed he had died that day? BTW, August 29th was Harvey's & his wife's anniversary..not that you asked, lol!

Harvey sounds like the guy...I guess they found him, and not at the bottom of a lake.

 

[shadowangel]

Well, I'm not so sure about that. I'd still like to run this through to the end. I haven't found any place of burial for Harvey and it could be that he left that day (28 or 29 of August 1922) and he never returned home and they never found his body, but, they assumed he had died that day? BTW, August 29th was Harvey's & his wife's anniversary..not that you asked, lol!

That's a great point...I'm not sure how they went about having someone declared legally dead in this time frame. It's possible he was declared dead on the last day he was seen alive.
If he were already depressed, I suppose the anniversary could have added to it, maybe pushed him over the edge. Regardless, its the best lead I've found so far.
Problem is, with the hotel being there our UID could have been from anywhere. Would it also be possible that he died elsewhere, and was washed downstream into the lake?

The condition of the shoes (and the wallet, as Carrie pointed out) still puzzle me. I guess the wallet could have been protected for years inside clothing...The shoes, though? Buried in mud?
Maybe he was a gangster, and went into the water wearing cement overshoes, which later disintergrated in the lake water. (Ya can't fault me for a lack of imagination :crazy: )