VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #11

[NYSofMindHunter]

I have mainly been following this case in the mainstream media as I haven't had the time to keep up with the lightning speed that these threads seem to move at, so I'm not sure what all has been put forth so forgive me if this has already been suggested, however...it occurred to me today when I thought about where this POI guy worked at that a really effective method of disposing of evidence could have been inside the hospital incinerator, which I am fairly certain they must have on the premises. It seems well within reason that an orderly would be aware of it's existence and quite possibly have access to it without creating to much suspicion. I wonder if the authorities have looked into this, with regards to checking video, as any actual evidence would surely be lost if it did go into the incinerator. Just a thought, sad though these things are, they must be looked into and eliminated -- and I would be very happy to be wrong, but I just had a strange feeling about this today. Keep up the good sleuthing everyone and I will be hoping against all hope -- or so it seems -- that this has a happy ending.

 

[msteach]

Yep. Agreed. They will know more as soon as the forensic info is back, but I suspect that this is just more of their attempts to get him to do something stupid. It worked the other day with the speeding thing, so they are hopeful that it will work again. His full date of birth and his social plus most recent address have all been released by LE. Longo made it very clear again yesterday at the PC that they weren't the ones who released his name -- that the public ferreted him out. He made that abundantly clear -- more than once.

Also...I don't want to sound disrespectful to HG at all with this next comment, but I cannot wrap my head around a 15 year old Nissan Sentra outrunning the cops.

Enough with the theatrics, already. If you have something on him...charge him or get a warrant for his arrest on the charges. If not, please, please, please don't let tunnel vision and pride get in the way of considering other suspects before those trails go cold.

But if they have got a lot on him, why bother to provoke him? Issue a warrant for kidnapping and put an end to the nonsense!

 

[raeann]

I wish we knew if LE had a warrant for his DNA and if so, how they obtained it. Usually if they have a warrant, they can force the person to submit, but since they've lost him...are there other sources that would be sure to be from him? Toothbrush, etc.? And what would they be matching it with, regarding Hannah? I am sure they want to run it through CODIS.

:thinking: hmmmm perhaps from the rim of some drinks that they offered to him and his family members while they held the cordial conversation and waited for an attorney to be located?????

 

[goldenbear]

Appear to be Kleenex boxes maybe.

They are boxes of LE gloves left from their last search

 

[hambirg]

Hi there, I don't mean to be controversial or to offend anyone. Hopefully my thoughts are not taken as a personal attack but rather as a legitimate issue that I am starting to struggle with.

While I realize it can be important to stay informed about issues in our greater communities, and in our world, I worry that the rather grim and morbid speculation of whether anyone is in a dumpster, etc is truly helpful. Will our posts about that sort of stuff really help? Do we not think that LE is obviously thinking of the worst case scenario already?

Is the painful reality of the people truly facing this, no, enduring this, walking this, living this, suffocating under this, in any way made better by internet strangers talking about their loved one in such terms (no matter how many sad emoticons!)?

This is just something I started thinking of today, that if I were in this situation I would horrified and sickened further. At worst, it is like water cooler gossip. Like it's a hobby or entertainment that we have the privilege of being removed from through our screens.

I don't know, I've been following so many devastating cases and it's just so hard to feel so powerless and angry at those who dare take away people's children, parents, brothers, sisters, etc.

They don't have to read it. Sorry if that sounds crass. My heart breaks for the loved ones of victims and I hope I never find myself in their shoes. That being said, their own imaginations must be filled with thoughts much worse than they would read here. I know mine would.

Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk 2

 

[s3cr3tag3nt]

I think the reason the PD is going over the top in press conferences, wanted posters, etc... is that they suspect he is responsible for the other murder/disappearances in addition to HG.

Risky... if wrong it's a major blow to credibility.

 

[random989898]

I am pretty sure that if they get forensic evidence of his guilt, they will find him pretty quick. Maybe they want a big show of bringing in the fugitive and their heroic work in searching the 4 corners of the earth and beyond and coming up with JM. Given how much this guy loves the spotlight, he is going to want the capture to happen in a spectacular way too. I wish he could put more focus on finding Hannah and less on doing the rounds of the talk show circuit waving wanted posters for trumped up reckless driver charges.

 

[sunflowerchick]

Hi there, I don't mean to be controversial or to offend anyone. Hopefully my thoughts are not taken as a personal attack but rather as a legitimate issue that I am starting to struggle with.

While I realize it can be important to stay informed about issues in our greater communities, and in our world, I worry that the rather grim and morbid speculation of whether anyone is in a dumpster, etc is truly helpful. Will our posts about that sort of stuff really help? Do we not think that LE is obviously thinking of the worst case scenario already?

Is the painful reality of the people truly facing this, no, enduring this, walking this, living this, suffocating under this, in any way made better by internet strangers talking about their loved one in such terms (no matter how many sad emoticons!)?

This is just something I started thinking of today, that if I were in this situation I would horrified and sickened further. At worst, it is like water cooler gossip. Like it's a hobby or entertainment that we have the privilege of being removed from through our screens.

I don't know, I've been following so many devastating cases and it's just so hard to feel so powerless and angry at those who dare take away people's children, parents, brothers, sisters, etc.

I completely agree and you worded it so well, it bears repeating. Perhaps that it why I don't post much here. I also cannot engage in conversation about someone who may or may not be innocent but has most certainly NOT been proven guilty.

I do think there is value in discussing the possibilities of what occurred but not in such gory detail as to travel beyond that of true "sleuthing".

 

[carbuff]

For the related cases -- would a thread in the "Serial Killers" forum (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?468-Serial-Killers) be appropriate?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I am pretty sure that if they get forensic evidence of his guilt, they will find him pretty quick. Maybe they want a big show of bringing in the fugitive and their heroic work in searching the 4 corners of the earth and beyond and coming up with JM. Given how much this guy loves the spotlight, he is going to want the capture to happen in a spectacular way too. I wish he could put more focus on finding Hannah and less on doing the rounds of the talk show circuit waving wanted posters for trumped up reckless driver charges.

You think the reckless driver charges are false? If so why?

 

[snarkymalarkey]

2nd search of LM apartment. Can anyone tell...are those computer hard drives the last guy is holding?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=valmfB8ws8U

They are boxes of latex gloves. The officers wore when they removed items from the apartment.

 

[Le Singe]

I agree there is a relevance and that LE thinks there is too, given the info released on JM. However, on this board the references and discussion on some of these cases made thing very confusing about developments with Hannah Graham, and this is board is about her. So the moderator who is the one who makes these decision requested that the information about those cases to go their repective boards. Discussing this with Bessie, who is the moderator here might be the best way to go since she is the one who makes these decisions.

what if you're comparing and contrasting you are talking about both so how does it belong in the other tread more so than this thread and vice versa?

 

[iCantRead]

All day my mind keeps going back to the "accidental" release of POI's social security number.

IMO either they've got a lot on him and are trying to provoke him, or some of the LE involved are epically incompetent.

When was the SSN released? Source?

 

[random989898]

You think the reckless driver charges are false? If so why?

I don't think they are false in that he likely sped away but I think the tailed him and 'harassed' him enough that he just wanted to get away. I think he took off quickly (but maybe not dangerously), they gave a half-hearted attempt to follow him for a very short distance then quickly charged him. I think they wanted to push him to the brink of doing something so they could get some kind of charge on him and they were successful.

 

[klily444]

It looks like boxes that hold gloves -- like the glove he's also holding in his hand. Probably just gloves they use when seizing materials from the aptmt.

Amen! Thank goodness for the evening WS posters. It took about 200 of us about two hours and a few threads to get to the bottom of the latex glove fiasco.

 

[Sjm_qc]

Very far behind but it seems that people have been very touchy about a few topics and it is taking up 100s of 'pages of space. If someone makes a mistake, if a member has an issue with another members posts, or if a topic isn't of interest, we have four choices:
1. Notify a mod
2. PM the other Member
3. Scroll passed the topics/comments/members that annoy us
4. Or hit the ignore button.

But just because some members are interested in discussing:
the WG's intentions
Why JLM Jr got a new license
Why chief Longo said "we found him a lawyer'
The last text and whether HG was really lost
What exact path HG took to go 2.5 miles in approx 2.0 hours
and anything else that has taken up 100s of pages that all of us have to read to get to any new development:

Please remember that this case may actually be related to some other very high profile cases and that it may end up being that this POI or whoever else may be responsible for HG's disapperance is connected to many of the missing or murdered people in Central Virginia.

Please know that there are many people, including CPD in the 1st PC, the media and area LE who have referenced the possibility that this case may be connected to at least two other cases. One of those cases was definitely mentioned by CPD as having not been ruled out, because of the undeniable similarities, as it relates to HG's disappearance. So with that in mind, please understand that there are MANY members and viewers who are very interested in looking at the similarities and possible connections of either a single killer or a tag team, working with the abductor or killer of HG, to either kill or keep captive the half dozen young women missing from the Shenandoah Valley.

Some of those missing or murdered include:
Cassandra Morton
Morgan Harrington
Samantha Clarke
Dashad Sage Smith
Alexis Murphy (Some people hold open the possibility that RAT was not the only person involved in AM's Case.)
Ann Marie Smith
Hannah Graham

All of the above are either missing and/or murdered from/in or very near Central Virginia/Shenandoah Valley, along the Rt 29/I-64 corridor, since 2009. That is a very significant aspect to this case and IMO should be explored. IMVPO, I believe this is why you see such passionate interest on the part of Chief Longo, CPD, Albemarle County Sheriffs Office, the Virginia State Police, Virginia's Search and Rescue as well as the FBI.
If they have been willing to leave in the possibility that some or all of these cases are connected then maybe we here might want to as well. The post that have mentioned these other cases have numbered less than probably 50 but there is such rudeness about members giving even a two or three sentence example of similarities between HG's disappearance and any of the above. It is really curious as to why a few members who choose to dismiss this aspect of HG's case and make those who wish to discuss it feel as if they are breaking some TOS.

Do you have references / sources to LE citing these connections ?

 

[Just K]

For the related cases -- would a thread in the "Serial Killers" forum (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?468-Serial-Killers) be appropriate?

Well, not if it does have to do with abductions versus murders. Whether people want to consider this possibility, it may be sex trafficking with some victims dying because either their case becomes so high profile that to keep the victim would be too risky or the victim succumbs to some deadly event or circumstances.

 

[makista]

It seems well within reason that an orderly would be aware of it's existence and quite possibly have access to it without creating to much suspicion. I wonder if the authorities have looked into this, with regards to checking video, as any actual evidence would surely be lost if it did go into the incinerator.

I have thought about this as well. It would make him pathological in that sense.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I don't think they are false in that he likely sped away but I think the tailed him and 'harassed' him enough that he just wanted to get away. I think he took off quickly (but maybe not dangerously), they gave a half-hearted attempt to follow him for a very short distance then quickly charged him. I think they wanted to push him to the brink of doing something so they could get some kind of charge on him and they were successful.

OK, thanks for the clarification. To me trumped up means falsified.

 

[Lava]

what if you're comparing and contrasting you are talking about both so how does it belong in the other tread more so than this thread and vice versa?

I think probably because in the other cases, those there talking about it are way more knowledgeable about what facts are what, and what may be new. Here, we are all new to the case, and it is evolving. So people were posting about the other cases, without saying which case they were talking about, and those only following Hannah's case were very confused. It is better to leave this thread for Hannah for now.