VA - Tammy Skinner, 22, shot self to abort baby, Suffolk, 23 Feb 2006

[curious1]

It would not be the first time a woman has put a man before her child.

 

[GlitchWizard]

I've met lots of men. None of them are worth more than a child.

 

[LButler]

OK, here's a good spot for my soap box!! This has got INSANITY written all over it for some greedy defense lawyer.

At what point do we start labeling people as they really are:

PERVERTS
MURDERERS
IDIOTS
THIEVES
DRUGGIES
....

Just like this Andrea Yates thing, she's a MURDERER x 5. Insanity has nothing to do with it. If you deserve to be locked up, you should be locked up. And, in most cases, throw away the key!!

This woman in this thread is a murderer as well. Was she INSANE? Doesn't matter. She's a murderer!!

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Just like this Andrea Yates thing, she's a MURDERER x 5. Insanity has nothing to do with it. If you deserve to be locked up, you should be locked up. And, in most cases, throw away the key!!

That's up for the jury to decide.

 

[bykerladi]

If she wanted to kill herself, she would have. We women are pretty resourceful and determined people, aren't we? And if we want to kill ourselves, we usually succeed.


My big problem is why the heck was she pregnant in the first place? If she had depression and was "insane", why did she get pregnant? AND if her "insanity" caused her to want to kill the baby, why didn't she shoot herself 9 weeks ago? To me, this clearly isn't a case of post partum depression or attempted suicide. I agree with the other posters - this is pure selfishness. She didn't want to be bogged down with the baby, and, rather than taking the time to have the baby and give it up for adoption, she chose to shoot herself to kill the baby. I hope they amend the charges to murder and put her away for good.


Which, actually, brings up another point. I don't think that women who kill their children should be allowed to have more children. (that'll open up a can of worms...)

 

[concernedperson]

The human condition is rough. Everyone has good points but where do we draw the line? I think Andrea Yates was severely mentally ill but I also think the children's deaths could have been avoided.

I believe along the lines that someone is shirking responsibilty in most cases. With that said, there are some who have this figured out and are murderers. Tough stuff, anyway you look at it.

When there is a pattern there is a need for a closer look. But, you have to educate about patterns. Some need a bang on the head and some need guidance. If we don't do this then we are going to repeat everything over and over. Think the movie "GroundHog Day".

In everything we do education is the answer. Then people can make judgement calls based on accurate info.Just trying all the time.

 

[MSM]

My big problem is why the heck was she pregnant in the first place? If she had depression and was "insane", why did she get pregnant?

Umm, are you saying that anyone who suffers from depression should not be allowed to get pregnant? What if the pregnancy was unintentional? What if she wasn't depressed when she got pregnant? What if she was depressed, but it was under control? What if it was the pregnancy itself that triggered depression?

Also...if she WAS depressed and psychotic when she got pregnant, are you saying that she was simultaneously capable of rational thought and did this on purpose? Mentally ill women can be taken advantage of by men. It happens in psychiatric facilities with some regularity.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Umm, are you saying that anyone who suffers from depression should not be allowed to get pregnant? What if the pregnancy was unintentional? What if she wasn't depressed when she got pregnant? What if she was depressed, but it was under control? What if it was the pregnancy itself that triggered depression?

Also...if she WAS depressed and psychotic when she got pregnant, are you saying that she was simultaneously capable of rational thought and did this on purpose? Mentally ill women can be taken advantage of by men. It happens in psychiatric facilities with some regularity.

After I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder I got my tubes tied.. not only because I knew I shouldn't have more children for *my* sanity but because any child I give birth to automatically has a 60% chance (I used to think it was only 50% but found out from my shrink on Fri. that it's 60%) of having Bipolar Disorder.

I didn't want to *do* that to any child. It's hard enough knowing my 12 y/o will probably end up with it.

I think there should come a time in a mentally ill persons life, ANY persons life for that matter, that we accept responsibility for our past, present and our future and the future of any children we bring into this world!

*Stepping down from my irrational soap box*

 

[luckyevan93]

OneLostGrl - it's a good thing that you were able to know this about your bipolar disorder and make the rational choice about having more children.
I've seen a few persons diagnosed who were not of a rational mind whether it was through their having 'felt fine' and just quit taking their meds or because their doctor(s) could not get their condition in balance through their medications. Either way, they were in no condition to be responsible for much of anything, much less deciding whether to become pg or not.

I thought this interesting of the article, "Larry Skinner said earlier this week that his daughter’s mental health problems are as much of a concern as her physical condition. Tammy Skinner had surgery to remove the baby and for the bullet wound soon after she was taken to Sentara Norfolk General Hospital.

Prenatal depression and depression throughout pregnancy can be as dangerous as postpartum depression, according to the “Expectant Mother’s Guide,” a printed and online resource for women.

In the United States, Sanford said, women are often criminally prosecuted rather than offered mental health treatment. It’s different in other countries.

“In England, if a mother kills her child within the first two years of the child’s life, she is not prosecuted; she’s given mental health treatment,” Sanford said."

Interesting to note how in other countries the pre and post depression is treated with so much more compassion than in the U.S. Makes me rather sad somehow that we have such a 'Hang em high' mentality.

 

[lynie]

I wonder why the arrest is "illegally inducing an abortion" instead of "murder" ??

Rest in peace, little one.

Don't they sometimes arrest on one charge until the investigation is complete, or the grand jury meets?

I think they will change the charges in the next couple of weeks, but they could hold her with this arrest...

Could be waaaaay wrong though!

Lynie

 

[bykerladi]

Umm, are you saying that anyone who suffers from depression should not be allowed to get pregnant? What if the pregnancy was unintentional? What if she wasn't depressed when she got pregnant? What if she was depressed, but it was under control? What if it was the pregnancy itself that triggered depression?

Also...if she WAS depressed and psychotic when she got pregnant, are you saying that she was simultaneously capable of rational thought and did this on purpose? Mentally ill women can be taken advantage of by men. It happens in psychiatric facilities with some regularity.

I'm saying that if a woman is depressed and suicidal, then she should not engage in consensual unprotected sex. Rape is a whole different issue, and noone has claimed the pregnancy in this case was a result of rape. What my understanding was from the article was that she was depressed and suicidal for at least the past year. Hence, I do not believe she should have gotten pregnant.

 

[MSM]

Then you are assuming that someone who is depressed and suicidal will be able to think rationally enough to avoid unprotected sex (and how do we know it was unprotected and not that birth control failed). In an ideal world, that would be true, but I think it's unrealistic to expect someone who is already so psychologically impaired to make sound judgements when it comes to sex. Saying that she should be able to do so does not make it so.

 

[bykerladi]

If she is unable to think rationally then she should've been institutionalized or hospitalized or medicated until she could think rationally. I'm sorry, but I'm never going to agree that mentally ill people should have a carte blanche to procreate when they cannot take care of themselves or their children - that goes for non-mentally ill persons as well. And mental illness is NOT a reason to excuse someone for murder of a child.

 

[concernedperson]

I'm saying that if a woman is depressed and suicidal, then she should not engage in consensual unprotected sex. Rape is a whole different issue, and noone has claimed the pregnancy in this case was a result of rape. What my understanding was from the article was that she was depressed and suicidal for at least the past year. Hence, I do not believe she should have gotten pregnant.

And there are people responsible for the welfare of others. Be it family members who choose to obscure when it is in their faces or CPS when they choose to obscure. Regardless, this wasn't unknown by some or maybe many.

Patterns, patterns everywhere. It has to be acted on and protect society from infliction of someone else's action. If it is known, than the web is further increased not decreased.

 

[MSM]

If she is unable to think rationally then she should've been institutionalized or hospitalized or medicated until she could think rationally. I'm sorry, but I'm never going to agree that mentally ill people should have a carte blanche to procreate when they cannot take care of themselves or their children - that goes for non-mentally ill persons as well. And mental illness is NOT a reason to excuse someone for murder of a child.

In this country, the laws are such that you cannot be institutionalized unless you are a danger to yourself or others. The criteria are fairly strict, and that is why there are so many homeless people with psychiatric illnesses out there who cannot take care of themselves. Also, it is up to the individual to take their medications; they cannot be forced to do so unless they are institutionalized.

I never said that mental illness was a reason to excuse the murder of a child. You are misunderstanding what I am saying, which is that there is no way to prevent people in that situation from getting pregnant unless you want to legislate who can and cannot be allowed to procreate or to force sterilization.

 

[MSM]

I didn't realize at first that the shooting occurred in February. An article from May 9 states that the abortion charge was dismissed because the statute specifically applies to a third party:

Skinner’s attorney argued at a preliminary hearing that the charge is meant to be used against a third party and that the same offense with similar wording has been tested in courts in both Florida and Georgia and failed. It simply does not govern an expectant mother doing something to herself, Kevin E. Martingayle said.

..................

Skinner was found guilty Monday of filing a false police report, a misdemeanor for which the judge sentenced her to 30 days in jail, all suspended. Prosecutor Marie Walls requested that Skinner repay the cost of the police investigation. A hearing July 10 will decide whether she’ll have to pay the estimated $750 to $1,500 .


http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=104124&ran=195201

 

[JBean]

I didn't realize at first that the shooting occurred in February. An article from May 9 states that the abortion charge was dismissed because the statute specifically applies to a third party:

Skinner’s attorney argued at a preliminary hearing that the charge is meant to be used against a third party and that the same offense with similar wording has been tested in courts in both Florida and Georgia and failed. It simply does not govern an expectant mother doing something to herself, Kevin E. Martingayle said.

..................

Skinner was found guilty Monday of filing a false police report, a misdemeanor for which the judge sentenced her to 30 days in jail, all suspended. Prosecutor Marie Walls requested that Skinner repay the cost of the police investigation. A hearing July 10 will decide whether she’ll have to pay the estimated $750 to $1,500 .


http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=104124&ran=195201

Oh this jogged something in my memory. I think a young couple did something similar. The bf helped the expectant gf to kill the baby prior to birth by hitting her belly or something. But IIRC, this same thing happened, where HE was charged and convicted, but nothing could be done to her because she wasn't a 3rd party. I'll have to look for that but it is this same principle.

 

[mum33004]

Oct. 19, 2006 — A Virginia judge has dismissed charges today against a young woman who shot herself in order to kill her unborn child in a case that has angered anti-abortion activists.

Tammy Skinner was a poor, desperate 22-year-old with two young children and another one on the way.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/LegalCenter/story?id=2585102&page=1

:banghead: I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS JUDGE DISMISSED THIS CASE. THIS WOMAN SHOULD HAVE GIVEN THIS BABY UP FOR ADOPTION. SHE CLAIMS SHE HAD NO OTHER CHOICE. YES SHE DID. STUPID STUPID STUPID:furious:

 

[reb]

or, had an abortion. that's pretty stupid to risk killing yourself (especially since you already have children who depend on you) to end a pregnancy.

besides, i bet all those medical & legal bills, and long-term health problems are about 1000x more than what the abortion would have cost.

 

[MistyM]

i have a feeling she's not 'all right in the head'. first carrying it to the point of contractions, THEN killing it??? you guys are right, she could have dropped the baby off somewhere. i think this is a case of 'out of sight out of mind'. i think some women don't feel bad if they haven't seen the baby. they know if they have it they will probably feel for it, (although there are plenty of cases of women who kill their babies after birth but that's a whole other thread).

I think it was selfish of her, assuming i am right, to kill the baby (a real baby ready to be born, hardly a fetus). instead of giving him/her up. i really think she didn't want to see the baby. she just wanted to make it go away before then.

who knows what lurks in the minds of some people? some of their rationalizations...