Viable Suspect: Terry Hobbs - #2

That is one hypothesis (out of many), but there's nothing definitive that says the murders occurred "well before 8:30." The last sighting of the boys range from 6 to 6:30 -- that doesn't mean that murders occurred right at 6:30.

Again, BL wouldn't have a reason to make up this: how JM confessed that he just couldn't stand the sight of these sneakers; how JM showed up at his house crying and shaking (after the murders had occurred), etc. You're ignoring a lot of crucial details BL simply wouldn't have had to lie about in order to dismiss his account of what happened. The fact they traded clothes in the past doesn't automatically make all of these other critical details BL outlined simply disappear.
if you think the murders occurred at 830 or after, wouldn't that have meant that there would've been people already searching in the woods? richie masters, robbie young, RC, etc all claim they were searching the woods starting around 845. so that means if byers was the killer, he would've had around a 15 minute window to commit the crime following his encounter with officer meek at his home

i'm not ignoring those things at all. i'm well aware of those reports regarding JM's behavior. but there's really nothing but speculation there. plus, if i'm not mistaken, JM in his second interview said that he gave BL the shoes because it was raining one day and BL didn't have shoes or something like that. i can find it if you'd like
 
if you think the murders occurred at 830 or after, wouldn't that have meant that there would've been people already searching in the woods? richie masters, robbie young, RC, etc all claim they were searching the woods starting around 845. so that means if byers was the killer, he would've had around a 15 minute window to commit the crime following his encounter with officer meek at his home

i'm not ignoring those things at all. i'm well aware of those reports regarding JM's behavior. but there's really nothing but speculation there. plus, if i'm not mistaken, JM in his second interview said that he gave BL the shoes because it was raining one day and BL didn't have shoes or something like that. i can find it if you'd like

BL's first-hand account of what JM told him when he dropped off the shoes isn't speculation. It's a first-hand account, from a guy who had no reason to lie (unlike JM, who lied and changed his story multiple times throughout his interviews and confessions).

Second, it's impossible to know when exactly the murders occurred. I never said they happened around 8:30 or a little after; I just said, there are other possibilities of when it could have occurred other than when the boys were last seen (6:30). That includes in the early morning hours, as the autopsy indicates the victims' TOD.
 
BL's first-hand account of what JM told him when he dropped off the shoes isn't speculation. It's a first-hand account, from a guy who had no reason to lie (unlike JM, who lied and changed his story multiple times throughout his interviews and confessions).

Second, it's impossible to know when exactly the murders occurred. I never said they happened around 8:30 or a little after; I just said, there are other possibilities of when it could have occurred other than when the boys were last seen (6:30). That includes in the early morning hours, as the autopsy indicates the victims' TOD.
well yeah, i don't buy anything JM says either for that reason. BL may have had no reason to lie.....or perhaps he did, we'll never know

from what i've read, the woods were searched starting around 830 until around 3-4 AM. then there was a gap until around 5 AM when slater and boskey claimed to have searched them. that's why i've always gone with the 7-8 PM theory in regards to TOD. of course, they could've been killed elsewhere and then dumped in the woods during that hour or so gap when there was no one searching
 
Someone asked about motive for Hobbs a while back. If one believes he did it (which I definitely lean towards), the motive is "physical punishment that got out of hand". Corporal punishment on Stevie led to him being rendered unconscious (or worse) and from there it's a matter of having to silence the witnesses. Removing the clothes, I suspect, was a way of ensuring that evidence washed away and to maybe confuse which child was wearing what. Possible that the killer(s) used the clothes to clean up as well.

I don't buy the 4 perp theory.
 
well yeah, i don't buy anything JM says either for that reason. BL may have had no reason to lie.....or perhaps he did, we'll never know

from what i've read, the woods were searched starting around 830 until around 3-4 AM. then there was a gap until around 5 AM when slater and boskey claimed to have searched them. that's why i've always gone with the 7-8 PM theory in regards to TOD. of course, they could've been killed elsewhere and then dumped in the woods during that hour or so gap when there was no one searching

Hobbs said there were people searching as early as 4 or 5 pm and multiple ones on ATV's and such.
 
I dont quite get it. Hobbs has an alibi of sorts. Whereas echols, jason and miskelley have no alibi whatsoever. No one has stood up and said they seen them elsewhere around the estimated time of death. All we,ve got is a sighting of echols near the crime scene. Miskelley claiming 3 of them done it. And a failed alibi witness who said jasons gran told her echols and jason we,re out together. Not one single person has testified of seeing any of them during the estimated time of death.

Hobbs was seen by people. Jacoby seen him and spent time with him 3 seperate times that night.

I think they worked out hobbs had about an hour to find the boys. Round them up. Kill them then tie them up in 3 different knots. Then dispose of them etc

Its just not really doable.

Where we,re the west memphis 3 that night. We know that terry was searching for his kid. To this day echols, jason and miskelley have no alibi whatsoever. No mum and dad sighting. Or siblings. Or girlfriends. Or friends. Or anyone for that matter.

3 people and not one has an alibi. Thats unbelievably unusual for innocent people anyway.

Except Jacoby's timeline and "alibi" for Terry conflicts very strongly with what Hobbs has said
 
Hobbs said there were people searching as early as 4 or 5 pm and multiple ones on ATV's and such.
what would they be searching for?

considering the boys were last seen around 630
 
what would they be searching for?

considering the boys were last seen around 630

Nothing. He flat out made it up. He made up a lot of *advertiser censored* and contradicts himself quite a bit between the Pasdar deposition, his police interview and his other appearances. Which is weird since he claims to have kept/started a journal where one would think relevant matters would be recorded. Why?

He tries to get David to change his story once the heat starts to go up a little for him after the DNA tests came out.

He places himself at the crime scene and says he saw JMB on the service road from the woods. Assuming that's even possible, the problem is he didn't KNOW Byers at that time. What an odd thing to commit to memory.

He stayed in the car when Mark and Dana were talking to the police around 8pm and also claimed that meeting took place earlier - I believe to spread out his alibi timeline.

He also had Stevie's pocket knife, which I personally think was used at some point to cut the shoelaces.

If you watch his interviews and deposition it's astonishing how problematic a lot of it is.

ALso, sorry. I'm bored and catching up with the thread so randomly responding to some stuff I read, not directing at you.

- Nobody "mentioned turtles" because everyone was told these kids were stabbed to death and Peretti did a crap job as ME. Chris' penis wasn't removed by a knife. The kids weren't stabbed to death.

- The WM3 "have no alibi" because they had no reason to remember that specific day. I can't tell you with any degree of certainty what I did 2 Fridays ago and, were I to guess and be mistaken, it wouldn't mean I was lying. I can remember specific things about my mother's suicide or my son being taken to the ER but not regular days. IF the WM3 had done it, it would actually make more sense for their stories to be more consistent, no matter how flimsy, since they had a few weeks to work up a lie. THis is typically ho co-conspirators get caught since their stories are almost TOO consistent.

- Echols' mental history is troubling but doesn't change the fact it's not direct evidence relating to the case. And a triple homicide by a group of teenagers inflicted on 3 random kids would be exceedingly rare statistically. Like "almost never happens" levels of rare. 3 drunken long hair kids do this and there's no hair(s) and nothing that match up to any of them?

- Speaking of hairs, the "Hobbs hair" statistical probability of a match goes up when you add the "Jacoby hair". Meaning a 95% likely match on one COMBINED with, say, an 80% match on another has an exponential effect. When TWO unlikely unlikely coincidences happen simultaneously, the math behind it becomes exponential and neither can be taken in a vacuum. Hope that makes sense.

- JMB was a ver good suspect but his timeline is pretty hard to poke holes in and the WMPD looked him over pretty good. There's no physical evidence linking him to the case except the PL1 knife but it doesn't seem like knives were used in these killings. He was a weird cat and for a long while looked good for the crime. I've ruled him out. I think the WMPD were close and just got the wrong stepfather.

- The WM3 have been out of jail for, what, 9 years now? Three convicted child killers who supposedly murdered 3 random little boys spend 28 years locked up (and all the horrible *advertiser censored* that goes with that), get let go, and not one of them picks up where they left off or has any violent offenses almost a decade later? I doubt any of them were "cured" in the ASP. If this were "in them" to do this, we'd have seen some trouble by now and all we have is a Jessie DUI.

- Even after being released, the WM3 STILL want everything tested. Why? They can't overturn the Alford Plea or sure the state. They're already OUT. If they were guilty they wouldn't want anything else tested.
 
Nothing. He flat out made it up. He made up a lot of **** and contradicts himself quite a bit between the Pasdar deposition, his police interview and his other appearances. Which is weird since he claims to have kept/started a journal where one would think relevant matters would be recorded. Why?

He tries to get David to change his story once the heat starts to go up a little for him after the DNA tests came out.

He places himself at the crime scene and says he saw JMB on the service road from the woods. Assuming that's even possible, the problem is he didn't KNOW Byers at that time. What an odd thing to commit to memory.

He stayed in the car when Mark and Dana were talking to the police around 8pm and also claimed that meeting took place earlier - I believe to spread out his alibi timeline.

He also had Stevie's pocket knife, which I personally think was used at some point to cut the shoelaces.

If you watch his interviews and deposition it's astonishing how problematic a lot of it is.

ALso, sorry. I'm bored and catching up with the thread so randomly responding to some stuff I read, not directing at you.

- Nobody "mentioned turtles" because everyone was told these kids were stabbed to death and Peretti did a crap job as ME. Chris' penis wasn't removed by a knife. The kids weren't stabbed to death.

- The WM3 "have no alibi" because they had no reason to remember that specific day. I can't tell you with any degree of certainty what I did 2 Fridays ago and, were I to guess and be mistaken, it wouldn't mean I was lying. I can remember specific things about my mother's suicide or my son being taken to the ER but not regular days. IF the WM3 had done it, it would actually make more sense for their stories to be more consistent, no matter how flimsy, since they had a few weeks to work up a lie. THis is typically ho co-conspirators get caught since their stories are almost TOO consistent.

- Echols' mental history is troubling but doesn't change the fact it's not direct evidence relating to the case. And a triple homicide by a group of teenagers inflicted on 3 random kids would be exceedingly rare statistically. Like "almost never happens" levels of rare. 3 drunken long hair kids do this and there's no hair(s) and nothing that match up to any of them?

- Speaking of hairs, the "Hobbs hair" statistical probability of a match goes up when you add the "Jacoby hair". Meaning a 95% likely match on one COMBINED with, say, an 80% match on another has an exponential effect. When TWO unlikely unlikely coincidences happen simultaneously, the math behind it becomes exponential and neither can be taken in a vacuum. Hope that makes sense.

- JMB was a ver good suspect but his timeline is pretty hard to poke holes in and the WMPD looked him over pretty good. There's no physical evidence linking him to the case except the PL1 knife but it doesn't seem like knives were used in these killings. He was a weird cat and for a long while looked good for the crime. I've ruled him out. I think the WMPD were close and just got the wrong stepfather.

- The WM3 have been out of jail for, what, 9 years now? Three convicted child killers who supposedly murdered 3 random little boys spend 28 years locked up (and all the horrible **** that goes with that), get let go, and not one of them picks up where they left off or has any violent offenses almost a decade later? I doubt any of them were "cured" in the ASP. If this were "in them" to do this, we'd have seen some trouble by now and all we have is a Jessie DUI.

- Even after being released, the WM3 STILL want everything tested. Why? They can't overturn the Alford Plea or sure the state. They're already OUT. If they were guilty they wouldn't want anything else tested.
yeah, i've always echoed your sentiments in regards to the WM3's alibis. it was an average weekday for them. i wouldn't remember everything i did 3 weeks ago on a tuesday either. they really have no reason to be able to recall with great precision everything they did that day. whereas for TH, he should've recalled mostly everything he did on 5/5 because it wasn't just an average day for him. it was the day his son went missing.

if the state of AR had even the slightest bit of evidence that the WM3 did this, there's zero chance they would've even considered releasing them. i'm not gonna say hobbs is 100% guilty (can't say that about anyone in this case with the lack of evidence,) but he's at the top of my list
 
The state accepted (I'll say again, accepted, because it was the WM3 defense team who came to them with the Alford Plea) because any prosecutor would be at a total disadvantage in a re-trial 20+ years after the crime had occurred and with the lead forensic Lisa Sakevicius being deceased, among a plethora of other original witnesses from the first trial who died. Throw in the deterioration of evidence and surviving witnesses memory of 20+ years, and it really doesn't take a genius to realize why the state accepted the offer, even though they would have went to trial had the defense not approached them with the offer.

Second, the Alford plea is better than a complete "not-guilty" finding from the state's perspective, in that it still limits the convicted to the point where even a minor crime would send them right back to prison.
 
Also, I always find it ironic when people criticize Peretti. You would think a guy so terrible at his job wouldn't still have it to this day, close to 30+ years later. How he was dragged through the mud in the docs really was pathetic and undeserved in my view. He pretty much backed Ford's defense all the way while testifying on top of it, but people never focus on that. I really don't think he was as biased for the prosecution as supporters believe.
 
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I have followed this case since I was a kid and after putting all the pieces together I came up with this theory.. I believe terry Hobbs did go to Jacobys that day to play guitar as said in jacobys first interview. I believe he left Hannah H alone with the boys while he went off to Jacobys to play guitar and get high. Terry was seen calling the boys in that day as stated by the neighbours who was leaving for church. I believe he then left for jacobys to get high and When he arrived back home (with company or alone) he saw the boys where naked and being sexually inappropriate with the sister (Terry’s biological daughter who is now a drug addict fuelled with guilt and mental health, yet she said she doesn’t know why she feels such strong feelings of guilt, she also says she forgot most of her childhood due to trauma) I believe terry snapped and went too far with his extreme punishment when he saw the boys playing inappropriately with Hannah. Don’t forget that the neighbours where at church that evening and Pam was at work. I also recently learnt that Pam gave Hannah up for foster care, your last child? Strange. Something is haunting that whole family and I believe Pam knows the truth.
 
What ever exactly was the story behind the "stolen" 9mm handgun that precluded Terry from participating in the infamous pumpkin shoot and the one retrieved several years later from the area? How, where and when was that gun stolen? Was it reported? I own a .45 and would report it stolen if that happened, if only to exonerate me from any crime(s) it were used for.

Also, Terry Hobbs did not know Mark Byers and had never met him before around 8pm on may 5th of that year. Yet, in one of his depositions, he says he saw Mark and Mellissa driving on the service road while he placed himself in the woods around 6pm or so. Now...people who lived there said you can't see the service road from there but forget that for the moment. More to the point, how does a person recall seeing a complete stranger in a car amidst several others during rush hour through all those trees when their attention is supposedly on finding their missing son? Terry had never met Mark. Yet "Oh, there's that one dude I saw on the service road earlier!" I don't buy it and it reeks of someone trying to fit in a known timeline into their alibi after the fact when they're catching some heat.

What I mean is, I live on a one lane street with a dead end cul de sac about 1/4 mile long and know most of my neighbors but not all of them. If I walk down to get the mail, 1/8 mile away, no trees, nothing I'd call "traffic", no obstructions, and one or two cars pass me each way, and even assuming I'm paying attention to them, I'd be damned if I could tell you who was driving what car or even what make and model it was - especially if I didn't know them. If it were a friend or someone I see a lot, I could probably be able to remember and say later that "oh, yeah. I saw Ava or Patrick drive by around 6 when I went to get the mail. I waved to him/her". If they were towing a boat, driving a flashy or unique car , walking a dog or riding a motorcycle then MAYBE. If I timed my walk and met the mail carrier I doubt I could describe them and might not recognize them later at the gym or wherever.

But a stranger? Or even a casual neighbor? On a street with only like 30 houses on it? NO...WAY I would remember that. I couldn't really describe the person I chatted with yesterday in the check out line at the grocery store. Yet, 3 hours and 3 missing kids later, or more to the point 20+ years later in a deposition, I remember some random dude/family driving a Honda Civic down my streetor through the woods on a service road? How could Terry ever recall Mark and Melissa on the service road and WHY did he interject that obviously false observation?

I got more but I'll leave off there.
 
What ever exactly was the story behind the "stolen" 9mm handgun that precluded Terry from participating in the infamous pumpkin shoot and the one retrieved several years later from the area? How, where and when was that gun stolen? Was it reported? I own a .45 and would report it stolen if that happened, if only to exonerate me from any crime(s) it were used for.

Also, Terry Hobbs did not know Mark Byers and had never met him before around 8pm on may 5th of that year. Yet, in one of his depositions, he says he saw Mark and Mellissa driving on the service road while he placed himself in the woods around 6pm or so. Now...people who lived there said you can't see the service road from there but forget that for the moment. More to the point, how does a person recall seeing a complete stranger in a car amidst several others during rush hour through all those trees when their attention is supposedly on finding their missing son? Terry had never met Mark. Yet "Oh, there's that one dude I saw on the service road earlier!" I don't buy it and it reeks of someone trying to fit in a known timeline into their alibi after the fact when they're catching some heat.

What I mean is, I live on a one lane street with a dead end cul de sac about 1/4 mile long and know most of my neighbors but not all of them. If I walk down to get the mail, 1/8 mile away, no trees, nothing I'd call "traffic", no obstructions, and one or two cars pass me each way, and even assuming I'm paying attention to them, I'd be damned if I could tell you who was driving what car or even what make and model it was - especially if I didn't know them. If it were a friend or someone I see a lot, I could probably be able to remember and say later that "oh, yeah. I saw Ava or Patrick drive by around 6 when I went to get the mail. I waved to him/her". If they were towing a boat, driving a flashy or unique car , walking a dog or riding a motorcycle then MAYBE. If I timed my walk and met the mail carrier I doubt I could describe them and might not recognize them later at the gym or wherever.

But a stranger? Or even a casual neighbor? On a street with only like 30 houses on it? NO...WAY I would remember that. I couldn't really describe the person I chatted with yesterday in the check out line at the grocery store. Yet, 3 hours and 3 missing kids later, or more to the point 20+ years later in a deposition, I remember some random dude/family driving a Honda Civic down my streetor through the woods on a service road? How could Terry ever recall Mark and Melissa on the service road and WHY did he interject that obviously false observation?

I got more but I'll leave off there.

I don't know that Terry Hobbs did it, but he was sure as heck up to no good that night because he lied so much throughout the whole investigation. And he had Stevie's pocket knife, that was what sold it for Pam Hobbs.
 
I don't know that Terry Hobbs did it, but he was sure as heck up to no good that night because he lied so much throughout the whole investigation. And he had Stevie's pocket knife, that was what sold it for Pam Hobbs.

I don't know if he did it either, but his endless lies and the fact that he had the means and opportunity to do it, and probably more motive than anyone else, makes him the best suspect as far as I'm concerned. I have no reason to disbelieve Pam's family members who say Terry hated and resented Stevie.
 
I don't know if he did it either, but his endless lies and the fact that he had the means and opportunity to do it, and probably more motive than anyone else, makes him the best suspect as far as I'm concerned. I have no reason to disbelieve Pam's family members who say Terry hated and resented Stevie.
I wouldn't rush to judgement against Terry Hobbs either. There's no love lost between him and his former in laws because of the death of Pams brother so that has to be taken into account.
 
I wouldn't rush to judgement against Terry Hobbs either. There's no love lost between him and his former in laws because of the death of Pams brother so that has to be taken into account.

I'm not rushing to judgment, but it is one piece of the Terry Hobbs is a Viable Suspect story. And he admitted physically punishing Steve. It was Pam's family who added the sexual abuse. But keep in mind also that Terry's first wife accused him of sexually abusing their young son also. Quacking like a duck yet?
 
I'm not rushing to judgment, but it is one piece of the Terry Hobbs is a Viable Suspect story. And he admitted physically punishing Steve. It was Pam's family who added the sexual abuse. But keep in mind also that Terry's first wife accused him of sexually abusing their young son also. Quacking like a duck yet?
I'm frankly skeptical of both the accusations of sexual abuse against Hobbs and the connection between them, even if true, and these murders. I'm staying on the fence when it comes to TH.
 
I'm frankly skeptical of both the accusations of sexual abuse against Hobbs and the connection between them, even if true, and these murders. I'm staying on the fence when it comes to TH.

And why would you be skeptical of independent stories involving his sexual abuse of children? You are free to stay on any fence you like, but if you want to converse, please explain why you think Terry's first wife lied about what he did to her son. Keep in mind also, that he sexually assaulted an older neighbor who believed he was beating his baby son. Was she a liar too?
 
I wouldn't convict Hobbs in court with what we know at the moment but I want to see more and to entirely rule him out is just insane.
 

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