WARNING:GRAPHIC PHOTOS Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #8

[ChasingMoxie]

I find this case pretty disheartening. I don't much value the retesting of the knife in question because I don't believe it was the murder weapon, so I don't really see how it's related at all to Amanda's guilt or innocence. Any trace DNA on it is completely unrelated, in my opinion. I feel like we're being forced to focus on these tangential details instead of all of the very real case weaknesses raised in these threads.

Nobody goes out for the night with a foot long knife as part of their ensemble. This whole "we found a knife in our suspect's kitchen so it is the murder weapon!" idea is just absurd.

 

[OldSteve]

I find this case pretty disheartening. I don't much value the retesting of the knife in question because I don't believe it was the murder weapon, so I don't really see how it's related at all to Amanda's guilt or innocence. Any trace DNA on it is completely unrelated, in my opinion. I feel like we're being forced to focus on these tangential details instead of all of the very real case weaknesses raised in these threads.

Nobody goes out for the night with a foot long knife as part of their ensemble. This whole "we found a knife in our suspect's kitchen so it is the murder weapon!" idea is just absurd.

Well said! Exactly!
All the talk about DNA in this case when it involves people who lived in the same house with the victim :banghead:
The bra clip was shown to have been passed around in the crime scene video...

 

[Malkmus]

Today's news:

http://www.tgcom.mediaset.it/cronaca...o1004063.shtml

google translation so be forewarned:

Meredith, "no DNA on the murder weapon"
Evidence that would fall nailed Amanda Knox
PHOTO TGCOM
17:17 - The experts of the Institute of Forensic Medicine in Rome, appointed by the Court of Appeal of Perugia, have established that the knife that was allegedly the murder weapon, there is no trace of DNA from Meredith and Amanda, as was said after a preliminary examination. Would fall and then nailed a proof that the Knox. We could not then find any trace of DNA of Sollecito on the hook of the bra because it was damaged Mez.
With these results, therefore, there may be a twist in the investigation into the murder of English girl. In the previous report, in fact, the knife was found to contain a mixture of DNA belonging to two young men. The position of Raffaele Sollecito leaves reinforced by examination of the experts Romans. Both he and Amanda are always those innocent people, and their defense argued that their DNA on the two exhibits that were examined there was over contamination.

Amanda also in the classroom
Thursday in Perugia, in the civil court and resumed the hearing to an appeal by lawyers for Amanda to ask the seizure of the film released in America "Amanda Knox Murder on trial in Italy". In this classroom will be the same student from Seattle.

The hearing may still be immediately referred for technical issues related to notifications. Lawyers Carlo Dalla Vedova and Luciano Ghirga, had sought the immediate seizure of the film, as "detrimental to the reputation."

Is scheduled for Wednesday but a new hearing of the Court of Appeal of Amanda and Raffaele.

 

[Allusonz]

not sure what to make of all of this as well a google translation

http://www.umbria24.it/meredith-in-...ncetto-si-cercano-profili-genetici/30537.html

No blood on the findings yesterday in particular were subjected to two test specimens for the detection of blood, which was negative and would the various samples of material on the findings

Then it appears that the bra clasp was stored improperly

given the confirmation of the deterioration of the hook of the bra that does not allow for further analysis

then if i am reading this right they make a finding on the previous results

Contamination, which penetrate the defenses, could have occurred during the analysis of forensic laboratories.

 

[ChasingMoxie]

Yowza. So translation algorithms have a ways to go before they're flawless, eh? :waitasec:

If they find no DNA, what happens? Does the prosecution then decide that the foot long knife wasn't the murder weapon? Do they retry the whole case, portions of it, or none of it?

 

[Nova]

Did one of the prosecutors in the case of Knox and Sollecito illegally wiretap anyone?

It wouldn't surprise me, but I have no way of knowing.

So you're saying that while lying proves a capacity for murder among young adults, illegal wire-tapping says nothing about a prosecutor?

 

[Nova]

I know nothing about any Monsters in Florence so no opinion there, but I don't consider his 'craziness' proven by one case from 10 years ago. And I think just like in the Florence Monsters case Mignini's theory would be rejected by the judge had it really been that crazy. What about all the other cases he was involved in since then? Did the defense in those cases also try to overthrow the verdicts because the prosecutor is crazy? And what about Comodi? Is she crazy also? I think she smokes too much, but I am not sure if that would change the verdict much

Just to be clear, I said Mignini had invented "improbable" conspiracies in two cases. I don't believe I said he is "crazy". I really haven't followed his career and don't know enough about him to even begin to make that sort of judgment. Nor have I an opinion on Comodi's use of tobacco.

But judges are fallible human beings, as are prosecutors and jurors. That the judges in AK's and RS' cases didn't find the prosecution's multiple and ever-changing theories improbable merely proves that, obviously IMO.

 

[Nova]

Releasing images to Hendry is nothing more than trying the case in the US media ... same with releasing the DNA analysis to Elizabeth (don't remeber her last name) and then publishing her opinion. The Knox family has released information in the hopes that the US media (and maybe Clinton or Trump) will intervene and bring Amanda home.

I don't think there's any question that at some point, the Knox family realized the prosecution was trying the case in the press and the family felt they had to combat the tide of misinformation. Didn't they hire a press agent? That's why.

They have further pursued whatever avenues they could find in the hopes of overturning a wrongful conviction. Just as we would expect any loving parents to do.

ETA: This isn't the only case where the parents of the victim are praised for loving their child (and rightfully so), while the parents of the accused are damned for the same thing. It's a curious but seemingly common phenomenon on the internet.

 

[Nova]

I find this case pretty disheartening. I don't much value the retesting of the knife in question because I don't believe it was the murder weapon, so I don't really see how it's related at all to Amanda's guilt or innocence. Any trace DNA on it is completely unrelated, in my opinion. I feel like we're being forced to focus on these tangential details instead of all of the very real case weaknesses raised in these threads.

Nobody goes out for the night with a foot long knife as part of their ensemble. This whole "we found a knife in our suspect's kitchen so it is the murder weapon!" idea is just absurd.

Amen!

 

[otto]

So what do you make of the rumor that it was not possible to collect new DNA for testing? We knew that Stefoni used all the knife DNA in the first test, and now we learn that the DNA on the clasp has deteriorated. The question now becomes whether the test methods are valid. Is that a good thing for Knox and Sollecito?

 

[otto]

Today's news:

http://www.tgcom.mediaset.it/cronaca...o1004063.shtml

google translation so be forewarned:

The link doesn't work.

 

[Nova]

So what do you make of the rumor that it was not possible to collect new DNA for testing? We knew that Stefoni used all the knife DNA in the first test, and now we learn that the DNA on the clasp has deteriorated. The question now becomes whether the test methods are valid. Is that a good thing for Knox and Sollecito?

One would think so, but I'm willing to bet that somehow in Italy it won't be.

Obviously, this is a guess on my part. But I won't be surprised if it turns out that Italian law holds that the burden of proof has somehow shifted to the defense (i.e., there's no DNA left so they can't "prove" contamination), or the defense is told that without additional evidence, they'll just have to make do with what was presented in the original trial.

I guess we'll see.

 

[Malkmus]

The link doesn't work.

http://www.tgcom.mediaset.it/cronaca/articoli/1004063/meredith-nessun-dna-sullarma-del-delitto.shtml

 

[otto]

One would think so, but I'm willing to bet that somehow in Italy it won't be.

Obviously, this is a guess on my part. But I won't be surprised if it turns out that Italian law holds that the burden of proof has somehow shifted to the defense (i.e., there's no DNA left so they can't "prove" contamination), or the defense is told that without additional evidence, they'll just have to make do with what was presented in the original trial.

I guess we'll see.

If no new DNA can be tested, then the only questions left are whether there was contamination, and whether proper testing protocols were followed. So far, from previous reviews, the conclusion has been that protocols were followed. As for contamination, there has to be an explanation for how Raffaele's DNA got into Meredith's bedroom. We've heard over and over again that Amanda's DNA is not in the bedroom, so it seems unlikely that Amanda transferred his DNA into the bedroom and not hers. How did it get there?

 

[otto]

http://www.tgcom.mediaset.it/cronaca/articoli/1004063/meredith-nessun-dna-sullarma-del-delitto.shtml

Thanks. I guess Knox is back in court tomorrow to argue about the recent movie. I guess it's a lawsuit to have the movie seized.

 

[Nova]

If no new DNA can be tested, then the only questions left are whether there was contamination, and whether proper testing protocols were followed. So far, from previous reviews, the conclusion has been that protocols were followed. As for contamination, there has to be an explanation for how Raffaele's DNA got into Meredith's bedroom. We've heard over and over again that Amanda's DNA is not in the bedroom, so it seems unlikely that Amanda transferred his DNA into the bedroom and not hers. How did it get there?

RS was a frequent visitor to the cottage. Finding small amounts of his DNA in MK's room isn't surprising. What SHOULD be telling is the large quantity of RG's DNA found on and around the victim v. the paucity of RS' DNA, but nobody seems to want to talk about that.

We already know proper testing protocols were not followed. Other knives from RS' drawer should have been tested as controls, but there was a consistent failure to follow control procedures (and not just with regard to the knife). I don't see how ILE can fix that neglect now and the Court seems ready to overlook it.

In my mind, there's no question that Italian courts are under tremendous political pressure to find AK and RS guilty. That doesn't mean they will knowingly convict innocent people, but that pressure may very well influence their opinions of the law and the evidence, just as it may have influenced the opinions of the original jury.

 

[otto]

RS was a frequent visitor to the cottage. Finding small amounts of his DNA in MK's room isn't surprising. What SHOULD be telling is the large quantity of RG's DNA found on and around the victim v. the paucity of RS' DNA, but nobody seems to want to talk about that.

We already know proper testing protocols were not followed. Other knives from RS' drawer should have been tested as controls, but there was a consistent failure to follow control procedures (and not just with regard to the knife). I don't see how ILE can fix that neglect now and the Court seems ready to overlook it.

In my mind, there's no question that Italian courts are under tremendous political pressure to find AK and RS guilty. That doesn't mean they will knowingly convict innocent people, but that pressure may very well influence their opinions of the law and the evidence, just as it may have influenced the opinions of the original jury.

"Frequent visitor" ... interesting choice of words. Amanda Knox had met Rudy at the bar, in the square, and at a small party in the downstairs flat in the cottage. That means they met three times. IIRC, your conclusion was that they hadn't really met. Raffaele had been to the cottage three times as far as I know, and in this instance three times means a frequent visitor. In light of this, would that mean that Rudy and Amanda had met frequently, or would it mean that Raffaele had not really been to the cottage?

We don't actually know that proper testing protocols were not followed. I believe that the protocols and testing is what is being reviewed by experts during appeal. I don't think the court if overlooking a review of the DNA analysis in light of the appeal.

What pressures are on the Italian courts to find Knox and Sollecito guilty?

 

[sherlockh]

RS was a frequent visitor to the cottage. Finding small amounts of his DNA in MK's room isn't surprising. What SHOULD be telling is the large quantity of RG's DNA found on and around the victim v. the paucity of RS' DNA, but nobody seems to want to talk about that.

We already know proper testing protocols were not followed. Other knives from RS' drawer should have been tested as controls, but there was a consistent failure to follow control procedures (and not just with regard to the knife). I don't see how ILE can fix that neglect now and the Court seems ready to overlook it.

In my mind, there's no question that Italian courts are under tremendous political pressure to find AK and RS guilty. That doesn't mean they will knowingly convict innocent people, but that pressure may very well influence their opinions of the law and the evidence, just as it may have influenced the opinions of the original jury.

BBM. I don't think there is any dispute about RG's DNA findings or his involvement in the crime. 2 DNA traces on the clothes, 1 from the sexual assault, and 1 on a purse. It is very little but often you read 'all over the room' for some reason. DNA from RS is contamination and had there been any DNA from AK it would have been normal. All I read is would have/should have stories that there should be more DNA but nobody says how. I don't see any point to go over this again as the different views are obvious by now. JMO.

 

[Allusonz]

One would think so, but I'm willing to bet that somehow in Italy it won't be.

Obviously, this is a guess on my part. But I won't be surprised if it turns out that Italian law holds that the burden of proof has somehow shifted to the defense (i.e., there's no DNA left so they can't "prove" contamination), or the defense is told that without additional evidence, they'll just have to make do with what was presented in the original trial.

I guess we'll see.

I have to agree Nova I would be still be very cautious of how the courts will handle this

I would hope that they review the video tapes of the collection methods used which have been posted a number of times

We know there was no "abundance" of DNA of AK on the handle of the knife.

From additional articles it appears that again there was not an "abundance" of RS's DNA on the bra clasp (I must state that the fact it was not stored properly says much as we know DNA can last for many years)

It appears that the DNA was in the LCN DNA range on the bra clasp

I would think they will now either confirm or not confirm the findings of Stephanoni

 

[Allusonz]

another article

Amanda Knox got good news today about the DNA on the alleged murder weapon, used to pin her to the stabbing of British roommate Meredith Kercher. Independent experts found nothing incriminating on the kitchen knife

They claimed the tiny bit of metal had traces of Raffaele and at least three other people on it, although his legal team has always cited contamination.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2011/03/24/amanda-knox-no-incriminating-dna-on-murder-weapon/