Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #3

[BarnGoddess]

To respond to your 3 questions,

#!Ideally yes. Births are supposed to be registered. The facts are that in every state there are many babies born at home and in other situations where the birth never gets registered.

#2 As far as SS #s, the last I heard that is a loosely monitored situation. Most people WANT to register for the benefits later, but no one goes after those who for whatever reason haven't registered. Many children enter kindergarten with an SS# recently received.

#3 The most accurate answer here is that in their minds, they consider themselves "apart" from it rather than above it.

Thanks, Glow. I know of an older man who delivered all 11 of his own children at home. Pissed off the local authorities to no end, but registered the births with the county and therefore the state of Colorado immediately. No, he wasn't a doctor, either. SS#'s need a birth certificate, I believe. We've now involved the Feds. And finally, these people may never, ever leave the compound, well, except to get welfare. I wonder if the forge documents.

 

[Glow]

Here is a picture taken from a helicopter by a photographer who was taking pictures of the YFZ ranch in the very early days of the raid. It's clearly two graves, and I wonder if those deaths have been reported to the state?

Some of the most recent are excellent!
http://www.trenthead.com/?cat=33

Yes Trent's picture are first rate. I am the one who brought his link to the thread originally. He is the photographer for Brooke Adams who writes for http://blogs.sltrib.com/plurallife/

the two of them make a great team and the blend compassion with integrity to the actual events. An almost unheard of thing in this particular story.

The graves were well cared for, legit and of no concern to LE. I believe that one was a child who died in a car accident and the other was an elderly woman but don't quote me on that as I am going from memory.

Other photos that were assumed to appear as graves were found to really be dirt mounds that were created to make flower beds in very rocky soil. Much to the relief of the cadaver dog handlers, men in the armored tank, and the LE in bullet proof vests carrying automatic weapons.

 

[Leila]

It looks as if there are now two properties in Colorado. Another one came to light the other day.

Crawford, the latest:

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3076545

One we knew about from Jon Krakauer:

http://www.childbrides.org/colorado_YFZ_exclusive_by_Krakauer.html

I note the one in Mancos has a familiar set of names - David Steed Allred. The most common names in the FLDS are: Jeffs, Jessop, Barlow, Steed, Johnson, and Allred.

I hope the Colorado authorities investigate both of these compounds and keep a close eye on them.

I wonder if Sarah has been taken to one of these compounds? Flora Jessop, who escaped some years ago and now helps others who want to escape, said she's received calls from a young girl, who says she's 16 and has been abused. Flora has received several calls from her and the girl doesn't know where she is. There's been speculation that the girl Flora is talking to is the same girl that was at the YFZ ranch and called the hot line.

 

[Leila]

Yes Trent's picture are first rate. I am the one who brought his link to the thread originally. He is the photographer for Brooke Adams who writes for http://blogs.sltrib.com/plurallife/

the two of them make a great team and the blend compassion with integrity to the actual events. An almost unheard of thing in this particular story.

The graves were well cared for, legit and of no concern to LE. I believe that one was a child who died in a car accident and the other was an elderly woman but don't quote me on that as I am going from memory.

Other photos that were assumed to appear as graves were found to really be dirt mounds that were created to make flower beds in very rocky soil. Much to the relief of the cadaver dog handlers, men in the armored tank, and the LE in bullet proof vests carrying automatic weapons.

Thanks Glow...........the photographer, Trent, has some exceptional pictures.

 

[cheko1]

Ladybass, I thought I read somewhere the attorneys were from all over the US. I sure hope you're right though!

Welcome to WS tnajk!

On CNN & Fox today they said lawyers were from all over the state of Texas, most volunteered to represent the kids.

 

[Glow]

Thanks, Glow. I know of an older man who delivered all 11 of his own children at home. Pissed off the local authorities to no end, but registered the births with the county and therefore the state of Colorado immediately. No, he wasn't a doctor, either. SS#'s need a birth certificate, I believe. We've now involved the Feds. And finally, these people may never, ever leave the compound, well, except to get welfare. I wonder if the forge documents.

I would not put it past them to "alter" documents as they alter so many other things to adjust the world "outside" to their point of view.

I too know people like the man you mentioned. There are many people that skirt along the edges of mainstream doing their own thing. This group just took it too far under a maniac leader. As a result over 400 children are paying the price for when his craziness met the unflexible giant entity known as "CPS"

 

[Glow]

I note the one in Mancos has a familiar set of names - David Steed Allred. The most common names in the FLDS are: Jeffs, Jessop, Barlow, Steed, Johnson, and Allred.

I hope the Colorado authorities investigate both of these compounds and keep a close eye on them.

I wonder if Sarah has been taken to one of these compounds? Flora Jessop, who escaped some years ago and now helps others who want to escape, said she's received calls from a young girl, who says she's 16 and has been abused. Flora has received several calls from her and the girl doesn't know where she is. There's been speculation that the girl Flora is talking to is the same girl that was at the YFZ ranch and called the hot line.

Leila you could actually be describing the small farm community I live in. Here there are about 3 family names that are everything and unless you are born in OR marry in, then you need to live here a long time to prove yourself. I have been here 25 years and am just now being accepted. I think this girl is perhaps duping everyone. How sad if that is true. It damages Flora's hard work and credibility as well as the Texas LE.

 

[philamena]

OMG! WHY do you think this 16 year old girl is dubbing everyone?
Glow, sure would like to know why you are so protective of the FLDS....I've tried to understand your point of view, but honestly, implying the 16 was dubbing people is ludicrous.

 

[Glow]

OMG! WHY do you think this 16 year old girl is dubbing everyone?
Glow, sure would like to know why you are so protective of the FLDS....I've tried to understand your point of view, but honestly, implying the 16 was dubbing people is ludicrous.

Hi philamena, first of all I am NOT protective of FLDS. I find them very over the top for me personally.

At the same time, I find the drastic response of Texas LE to be equally lacking in insight. For two weeks I have been following this story and basically watching people bounce around like ping pong balls. There are precious few that are "acting" and many that are"reacting"

The hard truth is 500 years ago people DID marry their daughters off, many times to men old enough to afford them. While that is regretable and goes against all that I wish for women, it is reality. These people are trying to live that out. They are an extremist group that exist on the margins of our modern day society. To rise up agaisnt them and try to extinguish them without first trying to understand them is to lessen everything that made this country a jewel among other countries. We don't need to have a knee jerk reaction here. We need to remember what it is that made America the land of freedom.
Freedom only exists if those you can't stand can live beside those you do.

As far as the girl, there are too many things not adding up. No one can find her. The similar calls keep coming in other states . She is pregnant with recently healing broken ribs....she doesn't speak the "language" of the FLDS in the sense that she mentions Easter (something they'd never celebrate and as a cut off from society group) and wouldn't focus on. Just bears waiting to see IMO

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Hey BG,
Those questions were asked tonight on LKL. The answer is yes, births are supposed to be registered. Deaths are supposed to be registered and children are supposed to be protected from sexual predators and forced marriage is supposen to be illegal. The compound makes its own law.

According to the atty on LKL, the compound keeps people out for a reason...the above are only a few.

Another reporter said that TX LE thought only about 100 people TOTAL lived in the compound. They had no idea there would be over 400 children alone.

Another guest was a female who ran away from one of these compounds years ago. She said that people were beaten nearly to death and some to death.... especially boys for not living by the law. Her brother was tortured. She also said that it's common for men to marry their own daughters.

Glow,
Hey there,
Question, surely you don't want children in that environment do you?

Chances are FBI is already looking into the non regeristing of Birth certificates and the many other things they are looking into.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Leila you could actually be describing the small farm community I live in. Here there are about 3 family names that are everything and unless you are born in OR marry in, then you need to live here a long time to prove yourself. I have been here 25 years and am just now being accepted. I think this girl is perhaps duping everyone. How sad if that is true. It damages Flora's hard work and credibility as well as the Texas LE.

Glow they beleive that the 16 yer old girl is the same 16 year old girl who is making calls in arizona. The 16 year old keeps calling FLORA so I don't see how it could damage her rep. They believe that when authorities moved in, before they locked everything down, they whisked the 16 year old out and moved her to a different area.

Even if they can't "produce" the 16 year old, texas still has a strong case.

I am also trying to understand your view. I could see if they went into the compound and find no signs of abuse. But they went into the compound and everything matched up to what the 16 year old said and tons more!

Please explain yourself more.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

The hard truth is 500 years ago people DID marry their daughters off, many times to men old enough to afford them. While that is regretable and goes against all that I wish for women, it is reality. These people are trying to live that out. They are an extremist group that exist on the margins of our modern day society. To rise up agaisnt them and try to extinguish them without first trying to understand them is to lessen everything that made this country a jewel among other countries. We don't need to have a knee jerk reaction here. We need to remember what it is that made America the land of freedom.
Freedom only exists if those you can't stand can live beside those you do.

Ok but the thing is you don't normally support pedophilia right? So whats the difference here?? Except that it is in the name of a religion!

Regardless of the religion whether it be Christian, Mormonism, Baptist, the law has to be followed. That is why we have laws, noone is excluded from following the Law. How do we know where they draw the line on actual sex or preparing the girls for sex?? Maybe some evidence will be presented in court that substantiates the allegations of child rape.

 

[LionRun]

Ok but the thing is you don't normally support pedophilia right? So whats the difference here?? Except that it is in the name of a religion!

Regardless of the religion whether it be Christian, Mormonism, Baptist, the law has to be followed. That is why we have laws, noone is excluded from following the Law. How do we know where they draw the line on actual sex or preparing the girls for sex?? Maybe some evidence will be presented in court that substantiates the allegations of child rape.

Ladybass, I fully agree with you.

And, I think that Jeffs is a pedophile and a control freak who has a charismatic personality. I think that he has manipulated people to get what he wants and has twisted, diseased desires for. I think he did this all in the name of religion. But, it is not a religion--it is a very harmful cult.

Lion

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Dramatic development in polygamits raid
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/p...

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Regardless if this video is true, This still will not do anything to the case. Because, when they went in originally they were looking for a sarah. They had the search warrnet and acted in good faith, to look for sarah and anything that pertained to her. When they found that the other children were being abused, they went and got another search warrent. The authorites went in under "valid suspicion" or "Just cause" They went in originally "in good faith" which means that they did not go in to delbritly harrass these people.. How were they to know that if in fact this story is true, that it was a hoax? How were they to know that???? CPS has a duty to investigate ALL claims of abuse, and thats what they were doing. So this "new development" will not affect the case one bit. Because there was bause going on, therefore the warrents still Stand.

Also how would this woman know that there was a Sarah on the property?? That she had an 8 month old??? And that she was preganant again??? That her husband was Dale barlow???To me it seems to be pretty far fetched to believe that she is connected to the phone call. There is just to much that was confirmed, that the 16 year old did tell them???

 

[Leila]

Having watched this all unfold before us for the past two weeks, and having watched some of the coverage of Warren Jeffs trial last September, I'm mind-boggled that this group can exist in modern-day society here in America! This is not a benevolent religious group!

We've read the history of the FLDS and read of the practices and beliefs of the FLDS. We've heard the stories of those who've escaped and heard the horror stories of what life was like within the cult. Here's what we know.

1. Children are taught to believe they must obey "the prophet", and they're taught through fear and physical abuse.

2. Girls are raised to believe it's their duty to marry and produce children as soon as they reach puberty. They have no choice, and are groomed to marry an older man.

3. Children are not educated much beyond the elementary grades and have limited and false concepts of the outside world.

4. Male children are used as child labor and when they reach their teens, some are cast out of the FLDS with no skills in the outside world. They are taught that if they are cast out, they will be damned to hell. Many, if not most, are unable to cope with the outside world.

5. Women/wives have limited contact with the outside world, and have been led to believe that people in the outside world are not to be trusted. They have no opportunity to develop independent thought and are strictly controlled.

6. The cult's leader is Warren Jeffs, a very evil man. He not only lowered the age of marriage within the cult to include marriage at puberty for girls, but according to reports has sodomized young boys.

7. Merrill Jessop, is the current co-leader and is purported to be as evil as Warren Jeffs in his abuse of children. The water-boarding of infants is his method of instilling fear of him at an early age so they'd obey him.

8. The women of the FLDS have been brainwashed to obey the orders of their leaders.

We've heard a summary of the first day of court proceedings in which the judge will make a decision on whether or not the state of Texas will retain custody of 419 children. In that summary we've heard about the testimony of a CPS worker who asked the men at the gates of the YFZ ranch where Sarah was. She was told there was no one by the name Sarah there. Yet, when she spoke with children at the school house, she learned there was as many as five girls named Sarah, including one who seemed to match the description of the girl who called authorities.

I believe Sarah exists. She is either among the children who were removed from the YFZ ranch and is too frightened to identify herself, or she was taken away by FLDS members and hidden.

Having watched the interviews with the FLDS women and having watched the tour of Marilyn's home, and considering everything else that is known about the FLDS, I've come to the conclusion that none of the children should be returned to the YFZ ranch.

Even if there hasn't been abuse within a particular household, the potential exists for abuse. The women are so brainwashed into believing they must obey the demands of Warren Jeffs, Merrill Jessop, or any of the other males that make up the leadership, that if one of them demanded that all children must be beaten by their fathers once a week, the women would not only allow it, but come to believe that it was a sacred parental duty.

 

[Ca-Sun]

Ladybass, I fully agree with you.

And, I think that Jeffs is a pedophile and a control freak who has a charismatic personality. I think that he has manipulated people to get what he wants and has twisted, diseased desires for. I think he did this all in the name of religion. But, it is not a religion--it is a very harmful cult.

Lion

Hi Lion! This is absolutely what I believe. Jeffs is a pedophile and hides behind his 'church' which, in reality, is a dangerous cult.

 

[LionRun]

Leila, great summation and great post!

Lion

 

[LionRun]

Hi Lion! This is absolutely what I believe. Jeffs is a pedophile and hides behind his 'church' which, in reality, is a dangerous cult.

Hi Ca-Sun! It is so good to see your here.

Lion

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

I hope to god that this woman(Rozita Swinton" is not found to have made the call that tipped off the raid. But if she is, I still believe the state has a valid case?! With the informant, the pregnant teens, and the other stuff. At least I HOPE they have a valid case, cause if they don't these kids are going to go back to a life of hell!

Whats everyone else think??????