Bolt cutters are so much cheaper and safer to use than a torch, this only makes sense if it's for two uses. If he did that, he could cut a pipe and weld it back so most people would never notice it even if they saw it. Sure hope that didn't happen.
Was Josh Seen Buying A LARGE Amount of Shrink Wrap?
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PickieChickie
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I understand. Thank you. Is the method described something JP could have done? Can you briefly describe it without using Susan's name such as "If a person wanted to dispose of a body using the method described, it would involve ............"?
PickieChickie
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I agree with you but the gates I am thinking of have the lock(s) up in a open-ended pipe and there isn't room for bolt cutters to expand (which is the purpose for the pipe.)
A sled, shrink wrap, and cremation for handling mass fatalities pretty much sums it up. The point of the article is that Thurston County in Washington was distributing this presentation as part of their Mass Fatality Management plan, as part of a low-cost disaster plan.
PickieChickie
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I don't want to sound dense, but are you saying that a body thoroughly wrapped in shrink wrap placed on a sled with wooden slats, when set fire, would cause enough heat to totally cremate a body?
I tried to figure this out, but didn't get to the finish line on it. It does look like at least a possibility, as much as a shrink-wrapped body tossed down a mine shaft.
PickieChickie
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He allegedly purchased shrink wrap before Sunday, December 6, 2009
He took the boys sledding on Sunday night, December 6, 2009
He allegedly purchased a hand-held acetylene torch on Monday, December 7, 2009
One would think, if he was going to use the cremation method, he would have had the torch already. However, he may have only had one with him on Sunday night/Monday morning when he left at 12:30 AM and needed to buy another one because the process didn't complete!
Perhaps he used the sledding trip to hide the sled and other items he needed somewhere and used shrink wrap to bind everything together. Perhaps he needed a reason to explain why he had a sled in the van. Maybe the oldest boy told Susan, upon returning from the sledding trip, "Daddy left our sled in the woods!", or some other thing that caused an argument between the two, something that made JP angry with his son and which made Susan angry because of the way he responded to the boy's remark or complaint. Who knows!
Maybe his trip with the rental car was to find the torch and other items left behind so he could dispose of them better BECAUSE THEY WERE TOO HOT when he left the disposal site on Sunday! Perhaps he didn't have time to wait for things to cool down like the sled runners!
Maybe his hands were red from digging in the snow trying to find the sled runners! Who knows!
PickieChickie
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Shrink wrapping a body would clearly trap odors inside, making it next to impossible for a cadaver dog to locate it. One would think such a task would be difficult and time consuming. It would make sense that they would wrap the body in a sheet or blanket first so they wouldn't have to be looking at the person's face and body the entire time.
Plastic burns for a very long time as does polyester, and, if he did use a synthetic blanket or polyester sheet underneath the plastic, the fire would have lasted a lot longer. But, the smoke would have been dark and really smelly! Still, I still don't see how the fire would be hot enough to totally cremate an entire human body.
So once again, I am at the point of wondering what he used that acetylene torch for and why it was purchased on Monday. Why would he be so careless as to buy one with a credit card? It would have made more sense to go to an ATM, withdraw cash, then purchase it.
PickieChickie
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Some people who were mum are now starting to talk, including friends and family members of Susan Powell. We all know keeping things to ourselves is very difficult. It would be a shame if the information was just a false rumor spread around. I do believe the information about the torch because a person who spoke to the person it was purchased from told me about it, someone who doesn't have a fake Facebook profile and someone who has been involved in conducting ground searches for Susan Powell.
nursebeeme
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anyone ever seen the show, "Dexter"? that is another use of shrink wrap (just thinking)
PickieChickie
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No, what did they use it for on that show?
gwenabob
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All this talk about mines reminds me--it has been a long time since I read the book "The Lovely Bones" and have not seen the movie, but I seem to recall that the subject of the book was put in a safe and dropped into a mine or sinkhole. I wonder if Susan read the book recently and perhaps even mentioned parts of the book to Josh? He just doesn't seem smart enough to come up with ideas on his own.
I have a question about the abandoned Utah mines. Are they marked in any way? Would a person just driving along the freeway be able to see "Oh, yeah, that's an abandoned mine" or are they hidden and you have to go looking for them? I really have no idea how to picture all these "abandoned mines" in my mind.
I have a question about the abandoned Utah mines. Are they marked in any way? Would a person just driving along the freeway be able to see "Oh, yeah, that's an abandoned mine" or are they hidden and you have to go looking for them? I really have no idea how to picture all these "abandoned mines" in my mind.
My family loves to explore the back roads and we've come across many abandoned mines over the years here in Colorado. I'd assume the ones in Tooele County are the same or similar.
Some are marked with signs, others are not. The main entrance might be neatly closed with steel bars if the owners had planned that one day the mine might be reopened, but if it was a bust, the poor folks would just bulldoze it closed and there'd be a pile of junk. Some are no more than a very deep hole (mine shaft) covered over with boards. Some are quite rustic and oddly scenic, but the tailings and remaining debris can be all kinds of dangerous. Yes, not a place for a child to be, either, but you usually won't find a warning sign of any kind. Think Uranium, Lead, Arsenic, and so on, and do not go there unadvised.
Most of the ones near highways have been mitigated better than the ones off the beaten path, but not always. There's a good chance the dust on Josh's shoes might tell on him, too. One possible reason for going back into the van a second time because the stuff tracks into the vehicle.
Some are marked with signs, others are not. The main entrance might be neatly closed with steel bars if the owners had planned that one day the mine might be reopened, but if it was a bust, the poor folks would just bulldoze it closed and there'd be a pile of junk. Some are no more than a very deep hole (mine shaft) covered over with boards. Some are quite rustic and oddly scenic, but the tailings and remaining debris can be all kinds of dangerous. Yes, not a place for a child to be, either, but you usually won't find a warning sign of any kind. Think Uranium, Lead, Arsenic, and so on, and do not go there unadvised.
Most of the ones near highways have been mitigated better than the ones off the beaten path, but not always. There's a good chance the dust on Josh's shoes might tell on him, too. One possible reason for going back into the van a second time because the stuff tracks into the vehicle.
Gwenabob, Just days before Susan was missing, there were lots of stories about the decision to seal up the Nutty Putty Cave permanently, leaving a dead man inside. A man was exploring the cave and became stuck. They tried to rescue him, but because of all of the turns inside the cave, the rescuers had a very difficult time. At one point, they made some success, but then the rope broke or something and he dropped back to the starting point. He died. They decided it was too risky to send someone down in person to get him. (Being dead, he was no longer able to assist by moving his body to the form of the tight cave) I believe they sealed the cave up on 12/4/09. There is no way that Josh didn't know about this story in Utah County.
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13919224
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13919224
kiki the parrot
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For those unable to view, it's a "mass fatality mgmt system for proper secure handling of human remains that protects from spread of bio hazardous waste associated w storage, transport and handling" of human remains (lovely... and very Soylent Green-esque).
It's purpose is that remains (vs intact body) are difficult to manipulate w/out secure foundation provided by a rigid base (wrapping alone does not contain biohazards) which avoids excessive maneuvering. So they came up w this portable industrial grade shrink-wrapping system to secure a rigid industry standard cremation container--a huge poly tunnel mounted on a huge heavy-duty steel frame (again, think mass fatalities).
These cremation-ready containers or caskets encased in strong low-density poly film can then be fed via conveyor into one end of the tunnel and the film is shrunk around the container in a matter of seconds, requiring only portable air compressor and stand alone generator.
In a nutshell a containment system for the bio safe transport of mass human remains which has little application here beyond the macabre idea that in addition to securing remains, a rigid stablizing base is probably useful if you plan to shrink wrap an intact body as well. Hth... :sheesh:
arrot:
gwenabob
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Thanks for this--I had no idea.
So, I guess this leaves LE searching for signs of disturbance around mines not far off the road in areas he could have accessed that night. This certainly explains why LE (or anybody close to the investigation) was not setting up searches for Susan. They would end up with multiple cases of do-gooders (but not necessarily experts) getting lost, hurt, killed while exploring abandoned mines.
Josh is really diabolical. But I think he will be charged and he will be found guilty. Unless he kills himself first, which would not surprise me.