weekend break: discuss the latest here #125

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I agree.
Between shock, maybe blood in his throat, he wasn't saying anything.


The wounds to his neck didn't occur,IMO, initially. I believe the stab wounds to his chest came first and every time he breathed in(inhaled) and out(exhaled) blood spurted from those wounds onto the sink area.
 
Even sociopaths mix in pieces of the truth into their stories according to criminal profilers. I believe Travis most likely was crying out, and based on the injuries he sustained, he did say something similar to "I can't feel my legs". When the vena cava ruptures(dissecting aneurysms) patients have described it as the worst pain they've ever felt and not being able to feel their legs.
Just wanted to add, a good stun to the frontal lobe could produce the same effects on his mobility. Loss of muscle control is one of the most common frontal lobe TBI symptoms, affecting both voluntary and involuntary muscle movements. This may cause the affected person to have great difficulty performing ordinary tasks such as walking, holding a spoon, or maintaining balance.

One of the most disturbing things she said in her ninja story that really has me scratching my head is: "Travis was screaming, not like a girl, but he was screaming" What a very odd thing to say, and what meaning does it have? Why did she feel the need to say that? Was it because he was disoriented and she recalls he sounded like a girl screaming? Just the opposite of "he WASN'T screaming like a girl"? Little truths mixed in and twisted by her?
 
For those that might have missed it, I posted at the end of the last thread a video from HLN where they had one of their producers, who is the defendant's size, drag the dummy (around 180 lbs) back to the shower.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9177134&postcount=1688

Thanks much, TigerBalm, I hadn't seen that reenaction. Very few of us have seen all the good stuff that's out there, certainly not me, so I hope folks will keep posting/reposting these oldies-but-goodies that many of us may have missed.
 
<mod snip>

In fairness, we have no evidence that the DT has engaged in helping the defendant "spin her tale." I, for one, am completely convinced that this nonsensical defense is purely the product of the defendant. She simply passed her "defense strategy" on to this team of public defenders, who are now doing the very best they can to work with a purely farcical strategy. Unless I see solid evidence to the contrary, I am unwilling to brand the DT as unethical. Nor can I imagine them to be truly so stupid as to believe that the "self-defense" fantasy coupled with abused and battered women's syndrome was a good idea. I remain convinced this is the product of Arias' fevered imagination, as witnessed by the what I believe to be fraudulent and self-serving "journal" entries which she completed long before this defense team came into the picture. She's stuck with her silly plan, and now she's stuck Nurmi and Wilmott with it as well.

Now, as to the question of whether or not they are using every bit of their legal skill to make that nonsense work, I say yes, they are doing that every day. It's their job. I don't have any difficulty recognizing that that is not going to make them many friends, particularly here in a victim-friendly forum. But it doesn't make them unethical. And as sleuthers, we have an obligation to demand proof before we suggest that they are crossing that line.

Always just my opinion.

:cow:
 
I don't mean to sound crass, but I am curious to your thoughts.

Do you think if Jodi had actually completely decapitated Travis that the jurors would view the murder differently? Even though she didn't manage to completely detach his head, he is almost decapitated. The fact that his body is still in "one piece" per se in the photos is no less devastating than if she had actually decapitated him. But I think the murder would be viewed quite differently from everyone's perspective.

Just something that came to my mind while thinking about the DT and their supposed "professionals" testimonies.
 
The wounds to his neck didn't occur,IMO, initially. I believe the stab wounds to his chest came first and every time he breathed in(inhaled) and out(exhaled) blood spurted from those wounds onto the sink area.

By blood in his throat, I was referring to coughed up blood from any stabbings in the thoracic cavity.
 
Bringing this post over for those who were asking about the stab wounds


Originally Posted by Nhic
OK here goes!

She stabbed Travis while he was sitting down in the shower, he got up staggered over to the sink she began to stab him in the back, he goes down, she continues to stab him in the back, he screams and says he can't feel his legs (because she severed one or more nerves), she then slits his throat to stop him from screaming, drags him back to shower, thinks he's still alive, shoots him in the head, puts in in shower, turns water on, etc.

That's what I think happened.
ITA. She stabbed Travis in the vena cava and this is why he was crawling. The vena cava is the major "tube" that carries blood to the heart to be oxygenated. When the vena cava ruptures or begins leaking large amounts of blood the initial symptoms are horrific pain in the low abdomen/back and loss of movement in the lower legs. People rarely survive this type of injury bc the damage occurs quickly. When Jodi says that Travis was crying out that he couldn't feel his legs it was due to the blood loss from his vena cava. So, this part of events I believe Jodi is being truthful about.
_____

One correction, the knife penetrated the Inferior Vena Cava, which carries blood from the heart. He would have still died without medical attention, although it would have taken longer. It was still an incapacitating injury, and who knows the psychological effect of such an injury and of the attack in general.

We've all experienced the woozy adrenal rush of cutting ourselves inadvertently, imagine that chest wound alone.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
 
Watching the evidentiary hearing again, and they were supposed to have a phone call with a Ms. Juvan (sp). Does anyone know who that is?
 
I don't mean to sound crass, but I am curious to your thoughts.

Do you think if Jodi had actually completely decapitated Travis that the jurors would view the murder differently? Even though she didn't manage to completely detach his head, he is almost decapitated. The fact that his body is still in "one piece" per se in the photos is no less devastating than if she had actually decapitated him. But I think the murder would be viewed quite differently from everyone's perspective.

Just something that came to my mind while thinking about the DT and their supposed "professionals" testimonies.

Good point. Sure, I think so. I think they would have no trouble rejecting self-defense a priori if they knew she had decapitated him. I also think that the slitting of the throat will seal her fate for largely the same reason. No matter how many times you go over this thing, that act alone screams brutality and intentionality. You just can't reconcile that with self-defense no matter how you try.

:cow:
 
Isn't it amazing that the same instrument (camera) Arias used to lure Travis into the shower to murder him is the one that will ensure that she is sent to death row and put to death? Those accidental photos = the work of Lady Justice.


So good on the interrogation video when she learns Flores lied to her about the camera having been ruined and useless. That he could prove she was there that day and was standing over a mortally wounded Travis.


image.jpg
Fixin to put a brisket on the smoker
 
The May 22nd entry is a red herring. I believe it was written after the killing or written in her premeditation of killing him. She wants to look very not stalkerish and to show she was fine with moving on. She makes sure to point out very key issues about jealousy, the email password "exchange", encouraging him to be patient wit Mimi and she will come around, etc... OMG. This is all such hogwash and is nothing but Jodi's transparent attempt to cover her tracks by painting a completely different picture.
Thurs. May 22, 2008]

(Snipped for space)

Absolutely a red herring - all part and parcel of premeditation. The gun was coincidentally 'stolen' a week later. Juan has so much to work with, his Closing could take two days and then some. JA's actions before and after the heinous murder is why she deserves the DP. Her journal entries will seal her fate. How AVL could have taken this case based on DV is beyond comprehension. Selective 'editing' of her journal, texts, and emails are going to backfire - big time!
 
I just wanted to add to my previous post that the outrageousness and utter brutality of the crime have incensed us all. But what adds to the outrage is that the very american and very necessary rights and checks and balances our criminal justice system offers for the protection of defendants have been so savagely and disgracefully exploited as well.
 
I was reading an entry in Jodi's diary from May (May 22nd) I believe. I can't find the post that showed the diary entry. She claims to have just gotten her new phone because she lost the other one. Was there ever a break in her phone usage before that date???? And how convenient that the phone with the recording of the sex tape disappears prior to her killing Travis and prior to his text message to her on May 26th.
 
I don't believe Travis ever said 'I can't feel my legs' or anything like that. I go by the evidence and the evidence alone. I don't believe anything Arias says. She loves knowing that no one else knows what really happened. She loves inflicting pain and suffering. She loves to play games with people. I don't believe she inserts bits of truth into her stories the way ordinary killers might do.

Hi Rose, I'm definitely with you on the "bits of truth" theory. I've read that repeatedly and like you, I can't see any scientific foundation for that idea. It's just entirely possible that thereisn't any truth in a particular statement JA makes as well. We cannot apply that as a rule in attempting to understand her behavior or to "decode" her statements.

Just :cow:
 
The May 22nd entry is a red herring. I believe it was written after the killing or written in her premeditation of killing him. She wants to look very not stalkerish and to show she was fine with moving on. She makes sure to point out very key issues about jealousy, the email password "exchange", encouraging him to be patient wit Mimi and she will come around, etc... OMG. This is all such hogwash and is nothing but Jodi's transparent attempt to cover her tracks by painting a completely different picture.
Thurs. May 22, 2008

Today has been a day of good news and sadness. Good news: my phone arrived! And not a moment too soon. Sad news: I finally had &#8220;the conversation&#8221; with Travis and it did not go well. I sort of put it to him already in an e-mail I sent a few days ago and he didn&#8217;t like that either, not nor did he take the hint. So I realized I had to be a little bit more direct. I told him that of course I&#8217;m looking for[ward] to his impending visit, that I can&#8217;t wait to check more things off the list (from 1,000 places), but that we probably would be better off in all ways if we were not physical.

He got offended and upset, then acted distant. I tried being so sweet and speak kindly to him, playing up all of the advantages of not violating the law of chastity, and he didn&#8217;t want to hear any of it. He said he already knows all that. Then it got worse, he asked me who I&#8217;m seeing, have I been getting my kicks with someone else, etc. Of course I swore that I wasn&#8217;t (which is true) but also pointed out that even if I was, then that&#8217;s my right. I also pointed out that I didn&#8217;t freak out when he confessed his potentially underlying love for Mimi. He said to leave his love life out of it. Typical. Then after a moment, he apologized, and said a lot of his frustration is from the fact that things in his dating life aren&#8217;t going that well, that yes, he still likes Mimi, but it&#8217;s not progressing the way he wants to, and he&#8217;s leaning towards giving up on her. I told him to be patient, she&#8217;ll come around.

The problem with Travis, is that he so used to guys girls falling all over themselves for him and she doesn&#8217;t do that. He needs that, I really think he does, &#8211;to wait.

Well, even sadder is we agreed to amicably part ways. He is an amazing person, and he&#8217;s told me countless times that I am one of the most beautiful people he&#8217;s ever met&#8211;on the inside and out. But it is really better this way. We both agreed to change our passwords, which we had exchanged eons ago to establish, or reestablish &#8220;trust&#8221; which we had both violated, so no more of that. We had both picked 2 accounts so I chose Facebook and Gmail and he chose Facebook and MySpace.

We are truly good people at the core, both of us, but we can&#8217;t behave ourselves when were around each other, not even over the phone. He said I am still like kryptonite to him. But I&#8217;m tired of being guilt-ridden when the air clears.

I knew it was wrong going over there all those nights but I couldn&#8217;t say no to him, I couldn&#8217;t not pick up the phone. He would rationalize it saying &#8220;it&#8217;s really not that bad,&#8221; or &#8220;come on, I want to please you,&#8221; and I was weak. I went anyway, I answered the phone anyway.

Moving has certainly helped me morally. I don&#8217;t know if it has him or if he&#8217;s found a replacement booty-call. For his sake I hope he hasn&#8217;t, not because it would be a replacement but because it is not spiritually productive. We both want to get married and I don&#8217;t think either of us is anywhere near that if we continue to act immorally w/each other. I am mortified that my phone was stolen. It had a hugely scandalous text message from him (10 pgs!) that he sent last week. It would make a steamy romance novel sound like a script from a G-rated Disney movie. I also had 1 or 2 recorded conversations that were equally as scandalous. I never did figure out how to play those back for him. Well they&#8217;re gone now and we won&#8217;t be making more. Well, actually I wouldn&#8217;t bet on it entirely, one of us will crack and call the other. It&#8217;s crazy, but what can you do?

Wherever my phone is now, I just hope text messages and conversations are never discovered. Yikes. It&#8217;s certainly not Pamela Anderson or Paris Hilton level scandal, there&#8217;s no videos but it would be embarrassing nonetheless.

I am honestly relieved about the whole thing. The &#8220;just friends&#8221; had many complicated &#8220;benefits.&#8221; I&#8217;m not seeing anyone per se, but somehow I feel like it&#8217;s still isn&#8217;t fair to any of my current prospects. And Travis said he still certain he wants to marry Mimi, although they&#8217;re not yet dating. It&#8217;s not fair to her either, in my opinion. We hadn&#8217;t talked about her in so long, I didn&#8217;t realize he was still in pursuit. I wouldn&#8217;t dare lecture him over it though. The first thing that almost popped out of my mouth was, &#8220;then why the hell are we still messing around if that&#8217;s the case?!?&#8221; But I kept it shut. For two reason[s.] 1: it would be like the pot calling the kettle black (as I&#8217;ve had my eyon eye on some wonderful&#8217;s myself. 2. I honestly don&#8217;t think Travis can be monogamous. I&#8217;m certain he wasn&#8217;t w/ me, although I don&#8217;t dwell on it anymore, but my certainty was further solidified when his pattern of behavior continued with his next girlfriend, Lisa Andrews. When he finally admitted that they had been dating, I felt so guilty. I almost wanted to tell her, it seemed only fair, but by then had already broken up and he had moved on to Mimi. Besides, not only would telling her destroy our friendship (mine and his), but it would cause a lot of unnecessary drama and pain. And just because Travis acted like a schmuck when it came to how he treated his previous girlfriends, doesn&#8217;t mean he&#8217;s capable of learning how to be better. It&#8217;s just that I&#8217;ve yet to see evidence of it. But perhaps it will be different w/ Mimi. One things for sure, I wouldn&#8217;t want to be the &#8220;other girl&#8221; in that relationship, I couldn&#8217;t handle the guilt. And these things don&#8217;t necessarily discount all of his other amazing qualities. He&#8217;s done more for me than I could ever cout count. He&#8217;s helped me in every area of my life. I&#8217;m indebted to him for all of the wonderful things that his done. He&#8217;s just so dang hot and cold. Bi-polar even, it would seem. But I have a gazillion memories that we&#8217;ve created that I will always value, just like the ones w/ Bobby, Matt, and Darryl. All unique. All special, all priceless.

Anyway, one thing I do know is it feels like a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders. I&#8217;m saddened and, yes, but it feels like a conclusion, like closure. The final chapter was finally written, and the ending was bittersweet. He said on some level, we will always be friends, but we both agreed that it&#8217;s better this way. It&#8217;s true. It is very much in alignment with the e-mail I sent him a few days ago. He&#8217;ll be so much better off this way spiritually and emotionally. And I&#8217;ll start dating for real again soon. Not this casual fill-in-your-Friday-night stuff. I won&#8217;t miss his teasing or his bi-polar tendencies to snap and yell and say things he ends up regretting, but I will miss his sense of humor. We&#8217;ll still have his car to take care of, but he&#8217;ll keep me posted on any new developments. He said if all else fails, then we&#8217;ll just scrap it but I would&#8230;

Definitely written for consumption to show that she had no motive whatsoever to kill Travis. Before or after, like you said. I have come to believe that her plans to kill Travis started earlier then May, most likely in February when Travis told her that he met his future wife, Mimi.
One thing that has baffled me, though. I know we can't believe anything JA says, but she talks about losing her phone in her grandpa's car, I believe. I would have put money on her thrashing it myself but apparently the aunt found the phone in the car when they were cleaning it out to sell it, or something, so the phone really was there and I doubt JA left it there intentionally. If she really did lose the phone how could she blackmail Travis with the sex tape recording? Did she transfer it to something else, like a CD? Or, another possibility is she back dated the journal entry. She really wrote it after June 4 and put an earlier date on it to prove her lies. It would be important that this would be before May 26, when Travis went off on her because it is said that his reason for being so upset is because she hacked into his Facebook or email or something and this way she can say that she didn't have the password after May 22nd because they agreed to change their passwords.
ETA I just noticed her comment about this being in alignment with the email she sent him a few days earlier. Obviously she said that as if saying, look, I have proof I was over him, I even sent him an email about it. Which leads me to feel that this really was written May 22nd with murder on her mind.
 
I just wanted to add to my previous post that the outrageousness and utter brutality of the crime have incensed us all. But what adds to the outrage is that the very american and very necessary rights and checks and balances our criminal justice system offers for the protection of defendants have been so savagely and disgracefully exploited as well.

BBM. No argument there, but I'm optimistic for a just outcome in spite of the mud thrown at the victim in this case.
 
Definitely written for consumption to show that she had no motive whatsoever to kill Travis. Before or after, like you said. I have come to believe that her plans to kill Travis started earlier then May, most likely in February when Travis told her that he met his future wife, Mimi.
One thing that has baffled me, though. I know we can't believe anything JA says, but she talks about losing her phone in her grandpa's car, I believe. I would have put money on her thrashing it myself but apparently the aunt found the phone in the car when they were cleaning it out to sell it, or something, so the phone really was there and I doubt JA left it there intentionally. If she really did lose the phone how could she blackmail Travis with the sex tape recording? Did she transfer it to something else, like a CD? Or, another possibility is she back dated the journal entry. She really wrote it after June 4 and put an earlier date on it to prove her lies. It would be important that this would be before May 26, when Travis went off on her because it is said that his reason for being so upset is because she hacked into his Facebook or email or something and this way she can say that she didn't have the password after May 22nd because they agreed to change their passwords.

I think you're right about the backdating. She's inadvertently revealing the reason for the furious email from Travis on the 26th -- he had caught her having referred to information she could have gleaned only by reading one of his emails, and he knew it. Can't prove it, but it makes lots of sense to me.

:cow:
 
Definitely written for consumption to show that she had no motive whatsoever to kill Travis. Before or after, like you said. I have come to believe that her plans to kill Travis started earlier then May, most likely in February when Travis told her that he met his future wife, Mimi.
One thing that has baffled me, though. I know we can't believe anything JA says, but she talks about losing her phone in her grandpa's car, I believe. I would have put money on her thrashing it myself but apparently the aunt found the phone in the car when they were cleaning it out to sell it, or something, so the phone really was there and I doubt JA left it there intentionally. If she really did lose the phone how could she blackmail Travis with the sex tape recording? Did she transfer it to something else, like a CD? Or, another possibility is she back dated the journal entry. She really wrote it after June 4 and put an earlier date on it to prove her lies. It would be important that this would be before May 26, when Travis went off on her because it is said that his reason for being so upset is because she hacked into his Facebook or email or something and this way she can say that she didn't have the password after May 22nd because they agreed to change their passwords.
ETA I just noticed her comment about this being in alignment with the email she sent him a few days earlier. Obviously she said that as if saying, look, I have proof I was over him, I even sent him an email about it. Which leads me to feel that this really was written May 22nd with murder on her mind.
I believe she began thinking about killing him much earlier too. She moved back to California a hot mess over Travis and her anger turned into a plot for murder. It didn't happen over over one day, one email, one text or one call. It was in the works for awhile.. The last exchange set it in motion. I don't think her phone was ever lost. I just hope Juan can blow this May 22nd entry out of the water as the red herring she intended it to be.
 
Folks, Don't know if this post will be allowed here but I just came across this narrations on YouTube regarding the sequence of events that took place on that fateful day of June 4th, 2008. It really puts in perspective how Arias committed this atrocious crime and how her OWN words in the Police Interrogation tie in to the FACTS of this case. It is really something to watch.

http://youtu.be/7mXlwTZoMzQ
 
Jodi's phone was as indispensable as air to her. No way she'd be without one for more than the time it took to beg/borrow/steal another. I bet the time she forced herself to keep her phone turned off on June 4 set an all-time record for her.
 
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