Weekend Discussion thread 04/21-24/2012

[otto]

I would be surprised also if I read that some thought MR innocent in this crime but that doesn't mean he is not innocent of some of the charges...thankfully no one on this site has yet to claim that MR is totally innocent of ALL charges.... some, me included will wait until the court of law proves that he is indeed guilty of ALL charges...JMO

Two people abducted a child, two people participated in the purchase of a murder weapon ... in the end, a child is dead. How could either of them not be guilty of the planned murder of the child?

 

[Macright]

MR bought 300 percs while Tori was in the car. Great babysitting. Maybe Tori had to go because she knew he bought that many pills? Just another thing to add to the list. He wanted to rape her and she knew about all the drugs he bought too. So she had to die. JMO

respectfully do you think an eight year old child would know about oxy's...JMO

 

[otto]

"A person commits homicide when, directly or indirectly, by any means, he causes the death of a human being."

"A person commits culpable homicide when he causes the death of a human being,

(a) by means of an unlawful act;

(b) by criminal negligence;

(c) by causing that human being, by threats or fear of violence or by deception, to do anything that causes his death; or

(d) by wilfully frightening that human being, in the case of a child or sick person."

Department of Justice: www.justice.gc.ca

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-108.html#h-77

 

[otto]

respectfully do you think an eight year old child would know about oxy's...JMO

I think a couple of mentally defective 18 and 28 year old lunatics might think that a 8 year witnessing a drug deal would present problems for them.

 

[snoofer]

I think a couple of mentally defective 18 and 28 year old lunatics might think that a 8 year witnessing a drug deal would present problems for them.

favorite grade 3 montra "I'm telling!" JMO

 

[snoofer]

For those wondering about TS escaping while in the car when TLM went around to the passenger seat...

For all we know, perhaps she pushed TS into the car and then followed in behind her?

Many if not all cars are equiped with Child locks so that the rear doors cannot be opened from the inside if the car is in drive, some also have a mechanical switch inside the door jam or on the door that prevents the rear doors from being open at all from the inside.

I had wondered why crown did not mention if "child locks" were on or not. Seems funny that they did not IF they had been on. JMO This may come up with defense. I would have thought that the doors would have been checked; and we would have heard if they open properly etc. So IF we can assume that since crown did not mention child locks were on; they probably weren't??? Why wouldn't they put them on; OR was TS subdued in some other way. JMO Those are the answers we may never have. Could it be possible that crown is still hanging onto some details for the defense phase??? JMO

 

[SFB73]

I don't think witnessing a purchase of 300 pills would be the reason to murder a child. At this point, TLM was facing potential kidnapping charges and in much more deeper than being an accomplice to a drug deal. MR if he was the "innocent dupe" and was under the impression that TLM was really just "babysitting" TS, at some point over the course of the hour and a bit ride had to be second guessing the validity of TLM's babysitting story, especially if TS was questioning it herself. A series of a few simple questions from MR, could have substantiated any possible babysitting story he was told. Starting with the very obvious, "Did your parent(s) tell you that you were to be picked up at school today by a babystitter?" along with several others that just about anyone not comitting a child abduction would have asked if they were the least bit at all skeptical of a story.

 

[Tahorn]

Derstine also showed the jury entries McClintic had made in her diary while in prison at Genest Detention Centre in London after she was arrested for an outstanding probation warrant in April 2009.

She raged about being incarcerated with younger people and at one point wrote: “I’m ... getting blood-thirsty again, it’s like I’m ... relapsin’ a bit.”

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/a...intic-was-killing-s-mastermind-lawyer-charges

 

[puppyraiser]

MR's Facebook status was brought up during testimony and I don't recall it being mentioned that he had written any similar comment before. He picked up drugs frequently from BA, he dated, met, slept with etc women frequently, he drove all over frequently (dates in different towns, cities), he had cash deposits from CS frequently and never wrote good things were coming his way before. Why on that specific day, the day a child was later kidnapped and murdered, did he decide to write that comment?

 

[SFB73]

I had wondered why crown did not mention if "child locks" were on or not. Seems funny that they did not IF they had been on. JMO This may come up with defense. I would have thought that the doors would have been checked; and we would have heard if they open properly etc. So IF we can assume that since crown did not mention child locks were on; they probably weren't??? Why wouldn't they put them on; OR was TS subdued in some other way. JMO Those are the answers we may never have. Could it be possible that crown is still hanging onto some details for the defense phase??? JMO

The simple answer is that the child locks (if the car had them) act much like a light switch, you can slide it on, slide it off... the car wasnt confiscated until his arrest...the switch could have been slid to the on position at any time and then slid to the off position at any time and a hundred more times inbetween the abduction and arrest, if they were in the on positon at the time of his arrest it wouldnt mean much in the grand scheme of things.

 

[tmhco]

I think we all agree that TLM had the capacity to commit murder. The real question is why did she abduct TS? Unless the defence can show me solid evidence that she had a reason, I am going with the evidence the crown has so brilliantly put forth. I am convinced she was abducted for sexual purposes. JMO

 

[Hello_Kitty]

Yes but the driver was driving fine with what looks like the window down in the Esso which someone posted yesterday it was to believed that VS was in the car at the Esso. Also TLM and MR (if they didn't know VS) would have to assume a child that was just kidnapped into an unknown car would kick and scream to get out. TLM in the the front seat just makes me think all the more VS knew one of them. JMO Unless a 3rd person???

BBM: I don't believe that TS was in the car at the Esso Station.

I have a hunch as to what the defense is going to try to do. Since alot of the girls that testified have children, Derstine will probably say that none of these girls have said that MR tried to touch their children therefore if he is a pedophile, why didn't he do that. Again, though he didn't, that is not why IMO he raped Tori. This is complicated because they do have a confession but the confession IMO is not totally truthful in regards to the motif and although logically with the testimony, it can be put together, the defense will push that arguement. I'm not sure how he is going to get around the fact that she was found without her pants on, which tells me logic will prevail.

If he was touching any of those children, it's possible he frightened them so much, telling them he would kill them if they told.

JMO

 

[JayFriend]

I can't wait to hear what MR did while TLM was killing Tori. He didn't use his phone. Where did he go? What did he do? What did she tell him was going to happen?

Well, unless his lawyer puts him on the stand to tell the court what in his words "really" happened, we won't have a clue. His lawyer will have to spin some scenario. In my opinion, that would be completely unsatisfactory and certainly not evidence. The next few weeks should be interesting.

 

[robynhood]

I respectfully disagree, VS died in the course of a kidnapping ... 1st degree murder receive an automatic life sentence with no chance of parole for 25 years... after pleading guilty the kidnapping charges against her were dropped and she was not deemed a dangerous offender. The examples you supplied of the women deemed dangerous offenders (from link 2) were women charged with robbery or cocaine trafficking, nothing involiving the kidnapping of a child and murder.

another hmmm moment does anyone else not see a PROBLEM with TLM NOT BEING DEEMED a dangerous offender ...or is this just me ...????....IMO IF she really did use that hammer to kill tori...>>>>IMO again I kind of feel this SHOULD be deemed a DANGEROUS OFFENDER....curious.... am I off key ...I feel logical again?????...wondering if I have anyone is in agreement>>>?????...being curious here ...robynhood

 

[JayFriend]

Two people abducted a child, two people participated in the purchase of a murder weapon ... in the end, a child is dead. How could either of them not be guilty of the planned murder of the child?

It has been proposed that purchasing the hammer and garbage bags was TLM's idea. Really? Is the court expected to believe he just gave her money to go into Home Depot and buy supplies to fix up her mom's place on Wilson Street? And if she'd told him she needed a hammer and some garbage bags, would he not have questioned the reason, unless he knew very well what they were for? In my opinion, he's guilty as sin.

 

[otto]

another hmmm moment does anyone else not see a PROBLEM with TLM NOT BEING DEEMED a dangerous offender ...or is this just me ...????....IMO IF she really did use that hammer to kill tori...>>>>IMO again I kind of feel this SHOULD be deemed a DANGEROUS OFFENDER....curious.... am I off key ...I feel logical again?????...wondering if I have anyone is in agreement>>>?????...being curious here ...robynhood

Her case was finished a couple of years ago. If she was going to be deemed a dangerous offender, the application would have been made right after her sentencing, wouldn't it?

 

[crystalsleuth]

Two people abducted a child, two people participated in the purchase of a murder weapon ... in the end, a child is dead. How could either of them not be guilty of the planned murder of the child?

BBM

Maybe I am missing something, but I do not recall that we have proof that MR participated in the purchase of a murder weapon. TLM went in to HD, made her purchase, then placed the bag(s) in the trunk that was opened without the driver leaving the vehicle.

 

[JayFriend]

The simple answer is that the child locks (if the car had them) act much like a light switch, you can slide it on, slide it off... the car wasnt confiscated until his arrest...the switch could have been slid to the on position at any time and then slid to the off position at any time and a hundred more times inbetween the abduction and arrest, if they were in the on positon at the time of his arrest it wouldnt mean much in the grand scheme of things.

Exactly. All 4-door cars made in the last 20 years have them. You flip a little lever in a recess on the rear edge of the door. I suppose by examining the locks investigators could tell if they were ever used, but not when.

 

[otto]

It has been proposed that purchasing the hammer and garbage bags was TLM's idea. Really? Is the court expected to believe he just gave her money to go into Home Depot and buy supplies to fix up her mom's place on Wilson Street? And if she'd told him she needed a hammer and some garbage bags, would he not have questioned the reason, unless he knew very well what they were for? In my opinion, he's guilty as sin.

MR is a a predator that sized up women in terms of how he could manipulate them. With one woman, he saw a bank account, with another, he saw an accomplice for child rape. I don't believe it's possible that MR scammed money from the mother of 5 so he could give it to another woman so she could buy a hammer unless there was something in it for him.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hello_Kitty
It's possible she was subdued in some way, I was sure she had been given drugs, but there appears to have been no evidence of that. Perhaps he punched her, or TLM did say he wasn't too happy about them talking so he may have yelled at TS to shut up and at this point got really scared. Probably why she didn 't want to be left alone with him at Timmies.

But he was okay with leaving them to talk while he was in BA house for 10 minutes? Something not right with this. JMO

He wanted them to shut up so he could listen to the radio to see if there was news of a missing girl.

Obviously, he had to leave TLM with Tori when he went to pick up his drugs and since BA didn't see a child in the car, and she did see TLM, then Tori must have been on the floor of the car hidden under the pea coat and told to shut or else.