Weekend Discussion Thread 04/27-30/2012

[BorgQueen]

Vince's excuse is total BS. Spectators are searched upon entering the courthouse and then again before entering this specific courtroom. Pockets have to be emptied, purses are ransacked, and you're wanded - twice. The guards (3 of them at each station when I attended) tell everyone to turn off all cell phones. When I wasn't sure whether or not I had turned mine off, I was told to stand off to the side and make sure. Also, there are guards inside the courtroom keeping an eye on everything, which is how I think these guys were caught. Despicable conduct, IMHO.

JMO

I agree that the excuse is BS. I don't believe for one second that he was ignorant and just didn't know. He knew. And IMO, he knew it could possibly cause a mistrial. JMO, but I think that could have possibly been the reason he did it. So who is he, why was he there, and what exactly was he doing?

MOO

 

[Macright]

I feel that the defence is going to really do a number when it comes to what they have planned. Its going to be boring, illogical and go right back to TLM for everything.

I realize that she has already admitted to the crime and I understand all that but I am sorry I dont think for a second she influenced him to do anything, it has nothing to do with a gang, it has to do with two people that should have never crossed paths, just like PB and KH. They were a poisonous combination.

The defence has to come up with something and I guess this is the only angle that might persuade the jury but I really doubt it will work because of all the evidence and his behaviour.

He was chummy chummy with TLM in the detention centre. If that were me I would have gone straight to the police and told him this crazy a@@ Bit_ _ killed this little girl etc etc.. They would have arrested her on the spot no threat to him.

But I guess the defence will just turn around and say he was scared for his life that this gang would kill him if he ratted. blah blah blah. So in reality Derstine is smart going this route because people might buy the fear of the gang as to why he behaved the way he did.

However I am a realist and the gang had nothing to do with why that child died, or their behaviour afterwards and I really hope the jury sees this.

I agree that she didn't influenced him in anyway...but I do believe she lied to him about the reason she was picking up TS that day...just not sure yet when he realized that there was more to it than a babysitting job..I do believe that they drove to that spot to try and figure things out..maybe she told MR that she would talk to TS and he left the car ..things didn't go right with her "little talk and the rage in her surfaced and she dragged TS out of the car and began her assault on her..first being throwing her on the ground and stomping on her and when she had her subdued ( as I am sure that in itself knocked the poor kid for a loop..broken ribs etc.) then she took the hammer and finished her off...by the time MR got to the scene the damage was done and there was no way out for him...terrible as it sounds it just could have happened that way...he was into it way over his head at that time... may sound far fetched to some but so are some of the other posts of how it could have happened...just saying....my take...IMO I am also interested in hearing about this gang that Dirk has mentioned a few times...three years ago it was bikers everyone was talking about who were involved...now we are moving on to a gang....S/B rather interesting if that materializes....JMO and I know he could have gone straight to LE but he didn't and it's not too difficult to understand why he didn't...

 

[swedie]

Sorry for such a long post, Just thought it may be helpful to bring this list over to the weekend thread for easy reference and being the case is now in the defense's hands next court date. Derstine's Q&A during cross examination of the Crown's witnesses. HTH

Dirk Derstine cross-examines Griffin-Murrell, Tori's teacher whether Tori was wearing earrings when she left.

Derstine only asks one question in cross of Det. R. Brocanier. Do you have any special expertise in examining videos? Det. R. Brocanier says no.

Perry witness waiting for her children at the top of the hill. Derstine asks if there was any interaction between woman in white coat and Tori, she says no. Perry said she was concerned about the white coat woman, "She was different. She was someone I never saw at the school".

Tara Tori's mother. Dirk Derstine asks why moved her kids farther away from school. Tara said her son was supposed to walk Tori home from school. Tara said it was Tori's first time walking back from school to her new house. Tara said she went looking for Tori around 4:30 p.m. after Goris returned from cashing the GST rebate cheque. Tara said she talked to Tori about not talking to strangers. Cross-examination of Tori's mom is over.

Cross examination of TLM. Defence lawyer playing Necro song. Lyrics- "When it comes to inflicting pain I am creative." More Necro lyrics - " I got a garbage bag with your name written on it." Another Necro song "Dead body disposal" played for jury. McClintic said she wasn't listening to song when she walked up to school day Tori Stafford abducted. McClintic said she listened to Necro when she was angry. Next song to be played "No remorse." Lawyer Dirk Derstine questioning McClintic on instructions she was given by Rafferty on what to say after Tori's death. Derstine suggests McClintic had ample opportunity to walk away with Tori after the abduction. "In my mind I was not going to let anything bad happen. I thought I would protect her." McClintic questioned about buying hammer and garbage bags at Home Depot. McClintic continues to maintain she did not know Tori before her abduction. Derstine tells McClintic it was her idea alone to buy hammer and garbage bags. "You are mistaken," she replied. Derstine suggests that McClintic offered Tori to Rafferty and he rejected the offer. McClintic says she strongly disagrees. Derstine suggests Rafferty wasn't present for the killing and was horrified when he saw what happened. McClintic says that is wrong. McClintic questioned about script written by her on what she would say if questioned by police. She maintains the script was from Rafferty, not her ideas. McClintic referred to police interview where she said the script was her ideas. Said that was wrong. Explaining conflicting versions, a number of times McClintic has said she can't explain how her mind works. McClintic being questioned about entries in her journal in April 2009. In journal she writes she is ready to snap. Lots of profanity. "I am getting f----- blood thirsty again." McClintic says she was struggling with emotional issues at time. Derstine asks McClintic about altercation she had with another inmate on Jan. 31 of this year. Agreed she kicked and stomped other inmate who was on the ground in a fetal position. Remembers telling Godmother that her only regret was the killing involved a young kid. Otherwise could do it again. Also told godmother during visit that she had microwaved one of her pet dogs as a kid. Concocted story at time to cover it. "I was a child. I didn't know what I was doing," McClintic said. McClintic excused as a witness, ending her testimony in the trial.

B. Armstrong. Derstine asks how much they chatted when she sold him the Percocets. She said nothing unusual that day.

Det. Constable D. Vittie. Derstine suggest that McClintic does not look upset or hesitant as she walks thru store, Vittie agrees.

Det. Scoyne. Derstine suggests that jerky video may make people seem to be walking faster than they are. Questioned about diagram of scene where remains found. Scoyne questioned about size of rock pile, location of fences by defense lawyer Dirk Derstine. Topography of area around rock pile discussed, sight lines. Scoyne questioned about the visibility of silos from the rock pile area. Scoyne shown diagram that Terri-Lynne McClintic made to help police find remains of Tori Stafford. Asked again about what silos could be seen from the crime scene.

Dr. Michael Pollanen. Pollanen agrees very substantial force was applied to the head. Blunt force can cause bleeding, he said. Pollanen agrees bleeding can occur after death in some cases. "I can't determine the volume of blood that was lost in this case." Injuries to head would have caused death by selves, nothing could have saved her from the head injuries, Pollanen agrees. Pollanen repeats that the medical evidence is silent on whether there was a sexual assault. Pollanen agrees medical evidence also silent on who inflicted injuries on Tori Stafford.

Stirling is an OPP sergeant and ERT coordinator. Derstine asking about topographical map of crime scene. Derstine and Stirling disagreeing how steep the walk would be from the stone pile east to a tree line. Stirling says it would not be a steep grade.

Butler is an identification constable; talking about the process of admitting prisoners into Woodstock police station. Butler participated in 'drive-along tours' with Terri-Lynne McClintic. Derstine lists 15 public schools; Butler done on the stand.


Scoyne; Dirk Derstine starts questioning letters read in court yesterday found in McClintic's home. Derstine asking about gang slang found in letters; now showing an image from McClintic's facebook page. Derstine asking Scoyne about the music McClintic says she likes on her facebook page; Derstine asks about untitled songs on iPod. Derstine wants to know the top 10 most frequently played song on the iPod; #1 "Baby Bash" by Sean Kingston... #2 is a Necro song. Court sees lyric sheet and is hearing the song "Your ****in' Head Split" by Necro. Derstine now playing the song "Most Sadistic" by Necro. Derstine confirms these songs are highly played on McClintic's iPod and ends cross-examination.

Scoyne back on stand. Derstine says there is no dispute that this Civic belonged to Rafferty. Derstine begins by asking Scoyne how longer the hammer was in the trunk of Rafferty's car. Scoyne says no way of telling. Now Derstine calls up surveillance photo of Raffety's car previously submitted of evidence; he observers that the white dash is visible.

Crown is reading point of admission into record having to do with an exchange between officers and Rafferty night of arrest. Rafferty asked officers for drugs and said he takes Oxy and Percocet; Rafferty rolls eyes during admission.

Barbara Doupe is an expert in examining hair and textile evidence. Doupe is a Western grad and lectured at Brescia. Derstine asks McLean if it is likely that DNA would be found on objects that people routinely handle. McLean agrees with Derstine that DNA can be indirectly transferred from one object to another McLean agrees with Derstine that only a small amount of blood is needed to generate DNA. Court is shown blood stain on door moulding near rear passenger seat in Rafferty's car. Derstine said there was sperm fraction in the blood spot but it does not mean it came from semen, McLean agrees. McLean tells Derstine there are technical problems in determining whether male DNA found in some samples is actually from semen. Court is shown photo of Goodlife Fitness bag. Derstine asks about size of the blood stain McLean said it is "a fraction of millimetre". There were several sources of DNA in the blood stain McLean said blood was one source but there could have been other sources. Derstine presents McLean with different scenarios for mixed DNA sample. Derstine suggests different scenario for DNA deposits on gym bag, all three at once, one at a time two plus one etc. McLean agrees there are more than a dozen ways that DNA from three people could have ended up in one deposit. Derstine asks McLean about washing the "Shaq" shoes - how much washing would eliminate DNA? Derstine asks if soap and water washing would eliminate DNA from shoes? McLean agrees it could. Derstine asked about blond hairs on pea coat. McLean repeats that Stafford was excluded from one of the hairs from coat that was tested. Derstine shifts focus to attempts to get DNA from Tori's body, McLean agrees that decomposition makes it difficult. Derstine wraps up cross examination of McLean.


Griswold MR’s neighbour said he saw a ripped car seat in the garbage pile in front of Rafferty's house There was a love seat on top. Derstine asks Griswold if he saw Rafferty remove the car seat late in March to install speakers. Derstine asks Griswold if he saw Rafferty put the car seat in the shed, Griswold says no.

A woman who met Rafferty online in 2003 "We became good friends" began to lose contact when he moved to Woodstock in 2008. The woman said Rafferty spoke about abducting kids - the kids grow up thinking the abductors are their real parents. Derstine asks the woman if she took oxycodone. She says no but is familiar with the drug.

A.Reid is 25 encountered Rafferty thru Plenty of Fish dating site. Derstine starts cross asks if Rafferty talked to her about Tori - she says no.

Latimer is 50 year old real estate agent who lives on farm outside Woodstock. Met Rafferty in Jan 2009 on Plenty of Fish. Derstine starts cross - asks about Rafferty's MSN sign in, "I thought I had it all but all is lost". Derstine asks Latimer about her later own MSN posting on Latimer's sign in.

Chambers met Rafferty on Plenty of Fish .She said he seemed friendly in conversation. He asks Chambers about reaction in Woodstock to Tori's disappearance. Chamber said it was major.

Cruikshank is the owner of Outdoor Services, a landscaping company based on Hwy 6 just north of Guelph. Cruikshank employed Rafferty from 2003 to 2005 as landscaper and snow shoveling. Rafferty worked with a team, licence suspended at time. Derstine ask about trucks that Cruickshank's firm used. Derstine asks about number of employees. Cruikshank says 12.

A. Woods - Derstine asks about farmland north of Woodstock for some reason. Woods said there is a lot of farmland north of Woodstock .

Waechter was assigned on to Stafford case on April 15. Investigated phone calls made by Rafferty on May 11. Waechter said Rafferty phone calls included two calls to Corey's auto wreckers on May 11. He asks if there was any indication why Rafferty was at Coreys, Waechter says no.

J. Meloche is 29. She met Rafferty on April 12 2009 through Plenty of Fish. Derstine asks Meloche if she ever saw a back seat in Rafferty's car she says no. Derstine asks about tools in the trunk of Raffety' s car Meloche said she saw them in late April .

C. Harnum. Derstine's cross of Harnum - He asked how often she checked Rafferty's Facebook page, she says often.

Waldron computer forensic back on stand Derstine asks about tagging on Facebook. Asked by Derstine Waldron said Terri-Lynne McClintic was not one of Rafferty's Facebook friends. Derstine asks if Rafferty was looking at Alexis Lane profile when he wrote "Everything good coming my way". Waldron can't confirm if he was looking at the profile when he was posting. Derstine asks if Facebook can be asked from anywhere that has Internet connection Waldron says yes. Derstine asks about signing on to setting from someone else's account Waldron says it depends on privacy settings. Derstine asks about accuracy of profiles on Plenty of Fish Waldron says its "buyer beware". Court is seeing a portion of Terri-Lynne McClintics Facebook page Derstine is asking about bottom portions being cropped off screen. Derstine is asking Waldron why she picked particular items on McClintic's website. Derstine asks if people would post quizzes on their Facebook page if they like the result - Waldron agrees. Derstine asks about favorite music posted on McClintic Facebook profile. Derstine points out songs by Necro on McClintic site.

Broad is a senior manager in information and digital forensics for Bell Canada Enterprises. Derstine is questioning a data call on Rafferty's phone record that appears to go on for 17 hours. Derstine is question a data call at 4:18 p.m. on April 8 that appears to go on for 44 minutes another just after 5 p.m. goes for two hours. Derstine points out that the two long data calls were almost consecutive Broad said that voice calls could still have been received. Derstine asks if a phone has be turned on to receive a data call. Broad agrees. Derstine ask about the tracking of data calls from point where call placed. Suggests not good for tracking long calls after call placed.


Mustafa Bakhtyar a radio frequency engineer. Derstine begins cross. He asks if we should be careful about pinning down the location where a cellphone call was made. Bahktyar agrees. Derstine suggests it is difficult to pin down an exact location because of all the variables Bahktyar agrees. Bahktyar said it is difficult to determine why a cell signal bounced off particular tower and not another. Derstine points out that the cellphone calls are logged from the point when the call is started and not good for tracing movements after. Derstine asks if it is possible there were malfunctions in the cell network on April 8, 2009 Bahktyar said the system was "working fine".

Youngs is a RIM employee from Waterloo She is a public safety liaison specialist. Derstine asks how BBMs different from texts.

Wilton is an RIM employees with an expertise in service maintenance for the network. Derstine suggests that MSN messages can get held up for various reasons Wilton agrees. He questions why the delivery times for BBMs tends to vary. Wilton said the messages should arrive within 4-5 seconds. Derstine suggests there are variables such as speed of carrier network. Wilton comments on list of Rafferty's MSN messages which indicates that some messages around 6:35 pm got held up and almost same time. Derstine suggests that MSN messages can get held up for various reasons Wilton agrees. Derstine suggest there was disruption in Rafferty's Blackberry around 16:35 on April 8th with various possible explanations.

C. Spitzig is 26, mother of 5. Defence asks about back seat of car. Spitzig said late in March 2009 there was no back seat in Rafferty's car.


E. Haye. She says she was sure she had sex with Rafferty on April 9. Derstine refers her to police statement where she said it might have been the 9th or 10th. Haid looking at calendar again says she had sex with Rafferty on the ninth, not 10th. Statement to police was either April 9 or 10th was at Rafferty's place in early afternoon.

Det. Con Gordon Johnson-Derstine ask about 4:18 pm two-hour data call on April 8 j15 seconds before money is withdrawn from ABM in Guelph. Derstine questions a call made on April 9 just after CASS surveillance video released to public. Derstine points out gaps - periods on May 7th when Rafferty didn't use phone doesn't explain significance.

Kerri-Lee Cushing-Mitchener - a manager at Genest detention centre. Derstine begins cross asking about protocol on visitors. Derstine clarifies that McClintic would have to ask for special permission to see Rafferty. Derstine asks about the term EOA (east of Adelaide) as a slur.

Special Constable Gerald Lanna a forensic video analyst. Derstine questions "unique" characteristics of Rafferty's Civic Lanna said combination of hood scoop spoiler rims together could be unique. Derstine questions Lanna's conclusion that car seen in three CASS videos likely the same. Lanna argues that the overlay technique he used on the three CASS videos shows they were the same type of car. Derstine suggest he can't be certain that it is the same car.

The Crown rests its case.

 

[Macright]

I agree that the excuse is BS. I don't believe for one second that he was ignorant and just didn't know. He knew. And IMO, he knew it could possibly cause a mistrial. JMO, but I think that could have possibly been the reason he did it. So who is he, why was he there, and what exactly was he doing?

MOO[/QUO

I agree..all rather strange...I don't think he was planning to pawn the picture off to the news media...they already have pictures of MR...and I don't think he was trying for a mistrial...think there was another unsavoury reason behind .. JMO as I stated a while back...there are dark clouds hanging over this and others..JMO

 

[BorgQueen]

I agree that the excuse is BS. I don't believe for one second that he was ignorant and just didn't know. He knew. And IMO, he knew it could possibly cause a mistrial. JMO, but I think that could have possibly been the reason he did it. So who is he, why was he there, and what exactly was he doing?

MOO

I agree..all rather strange...I don't think he was planning to pawn the picture off to the news media...they already have pictures of MR...and I don't think he was trying for a mistrial...think there was another unsavoury reason behind .. JMO as I stated a while back...there are dark clouds hanging over this and others..JMO

I definitely do not think he was trying to pawn the picture off to the news media, or even another inmate looking for somebody to beat up. IMO, it was either a mistrial these people were going for... or something else. What? Not sure. There definitely was a purpose, and it isn't a good one what ever it is.

 

[Kittymama]

I agree..all rather strange...I don't think he was planning to pawn the picture off to the news media...they already have pictures of MR...and I don't think he was trying for a mistrial...think there was another unsavoury reason behind .. JMO as I stated a while back...there are dark clouds hanging over this and others..JMO

BBM

What are you talking about, please? I don't understand.

 

[otto]

I definitely do not think he was trying to pawn the picture off to the news media, or even another inmate looking for somebody to beat up. IMO, it was either a mistrial these people were going for... or something else. What? Not sure. There definitely was a purpose, and it isn't a good one what ever it is.

I don't think that someone taking a picture in the courtroom would result in a mistrial. It may result in contempt of court charges - since the person that took the photo was in violation of court rules - but it's certainly not grounds to retry the case.

 

[Wondergirl]

I like how his hands are free and the other two are pulling the luggage around. LOL! JMO

LMAO! Here I was looking at his jeans. Never even noticed that.

Lawyers dressed down in jeans come across as hippies to me, the ladies look lovely and professional though!

JMO

 

[Bravo]

The jeans are not Courtroom attire. The pants worn are a grey pinstripe and are very tailored. Look great with the bar jackets. Same pant on each of the crown.

 

[Yody04]

I agree that she didn't influenced him in anyway...but I do believe she lied to him about the reason she was picking up TS that day...just not sure yet when he realized that there was more to it than a babysitting job..I do believe that they drove to that spot to try and figure things out..maybe she told MR that she would talk to TS and he left the car ..things didn't go right with her "little talk and the rage in her surfaced and she dragged TS out of the car and began her assault on her..first being throwing her on the ground and stomping on her and when she had her subdued ( as I am sure that in itself knocked the poor kid for a loop..broken ribs etc.) then she took the hammer and finished her off...by the time MR got to the scene the damage was done and there was no way out for him...terrible as it sounds it just could have happened that way...he was into it way over his head at that time... may sound far fetched to some but so are some of the other posts of how it could have happened...just saying....my take...IMO I am also interested in hearing about this gang that Dirk has mentioned a few times...three years ago it was bikers everyone was talking about who were involved...now we are moving on to a gang....S/B rather interesting if that materializes....JMO and I know he could have gone straight to LE but he didn't and it's not too difficult to understand why he didn't...

babysitting job? why do I have to hide a child in my car when I am babysitting it?
And I don't believe that he didn't know what TLM is bying at HD. Now, what do you need a hammer and bags for while you're driving around with a kidnapped child?
And why was he driving around the school in the morning? I am sure that he wasn't looking for Tori. She was just the one standing alone in the afternoon. It could have been any other child.
No, sorry I don't believe his innocent bs. But this is only my opinion. We will see what we get to hear next week.

 

[Flowercb]

Good point, maybe the "drug debt" theory is all about EOA, I don't know. Those online social media profiles that people have been discussing here for 3 years, pretty much indicate participation in that gang. Derstine could have dug up quite a bit.

Maybe Derstine found someone who would say that there was an initiation of murder etc. for that gang, I don't have a clue about it.

Pretty hard to argue with the fact that Tori was not seen inside the car, on any video or by witnesses that day. That is a strong indication she was hidden.

There is only 1 reason why she would be hidden.

It wouldn't have anything to do with a drug debt.

JMO

Even if TLM took Tori for a drug debt, it doesn't mean that MTR was in on the drug debt part. He may have wanted to fulfill his <modsnip> desires and TLM may have wanted revenge. She afterall chose the child for MTR. Maybe this child was chosen because she felt both parties would benefit. MOO

 

[Jezbel]

I definitely do not think he was trying to pawn the picture off to the news media, or even another inmate looking for somebody to beat up. IMO, it was either a mistrial these people were going for... or something else. What? Not sure. There definitely was a purpose, and it isn't a good one what ever it is.

I agree, besides I highly doubt any media here would try and buy the picture anyway. They know the rules and they stick to them.

 

[Bravo]

I thought perhaps the photo was taken for sale on the "net". I'm sure there is a forum for such out there. It would be a rare photo. Stupid tho. Did he really think he could snap a pic and walk away with it? Apparently. Perhaps not operating with all oars in the water LOL

 

[Kamille]

I agree, besides I highly doubt any media here would try and buy the picture anyway. They know the rules and they stick to them.

True...but he might have been considering selling it to a US publicaton. They do not have to adhere to the Canadian ban I believe. And some of the more tabloid type ones would probably actually pay for the picture and publish it.

MOO

 

[antiquegirl]

True...but he might have been considering selling it to a US publicaton. They do not have to adhere to the Canadian ban I believe. And some of the more tabloid type ones would probably actually pay for the picture and publish it.

MOO

But what is there to sell? A picture of a member of LE on the stand? One of MTR sitting in his glass box? There have been recent pics of MTR in a vehicle on his way to or from court, so there's nothing to reveal there. Spectators sit at the very back of the courtroom, the view is not great and there really isn't much to take pictures of. As for the evidence presented, that was all made available to the media at the end of the day. I don't see how anyone would pay money for anything they could have snapped. And I'm with Otto in that there would be no chance of a mistrial for this infraction. The only thing that makes sense to me is sheer stupidity.

JMO

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I'm bringing this over from the other thread because it was a response to one of my posts.

Antiquegirl wrote:

Everyone keeps saying that TLM isn't on trial here, MTR is. But TLM's credibility is very much on trial here. Her testimony is a crucial piece of evidence against the accused and the basis for almost everything. Without her confession, MTR may never have been caught. If, as the Crown alleges, these two people worked as a team, then you can't try MTR without bringing TLM into it. She is the only witness still alive who can verify or deny what truly happened on April 8, 2009. It is the job of the Crown and the defence to convince the jury whether or not to believe TLM's testimony, which parts of it, and why. And that means that she needs to be discussed here. MTR and TLM are inexorably linked for the duration of this trial and that just can't be avoided or denied.

I didn't say that we shouldn't discuss it here. She did testify, and a portion of her testimony was about her behavior before, during and after Tori's abduction, rape and murder. Her entire testimony was entered into evidence.

But IMO, TLM's testimony is not this basis of the Cown's case, the evidence corroborating her testimony is the basis of the Crown's case.


I absolutely do not see how TLMs connection to the behavior of someone in EOA that she might know through a friend of hers has anything to do with Tori's abduction. Derstine already questioned TLM about EOA. I don't think Derstine's questions about EOA indicate anything about EOA will be brought up when the defence presents their case.

I think the minimal evidence he used to show any type of connection with that gang was used for the purposes of discrediting TLM as a witness. If he had more about that particular connection I think he would have asked her about it at that time and presented the evidence then as he did with the letter with EOA on it. If the questions were related to people instead of items, he could have asked if she knows this gang member, if she was involved in inforcing drug debts with this gang. Then i could see him bringing in others that could support related alternate scenarios. Derstine could have asked Tara if she had any connections to a gang that is connected to TLM. Or he could have asked if she owed money to EOA.

When it comes to TLM's involvement in this crime, yes her credibility is important, but it is not the most important part of the Crown's case. Derstine has already done his cross-examination of her up to poke as many holes in it as he can, including bringing up very disturbing behavior of TLM unrelated to Tori's abduction. I completely understand that because there is so much evidence against MTR that was not provided by TLM.

Even if TLM was not an extremely violent and disturbed criminal I would still need other corroborating evidence. Especially considering the studies that have shown the flaws in direct eye witness testimony. I believe a strong case needs strong circumstantial evidence.

So IMO what is most important in this trial is the evidence that corroberates TLM's story, what people testify to regarding his behavior, his statements to others about Tori's abduction and his relationship with TLM, his behavior when he was with TLM before and after the abduction, what videos show him doing, his phone records, his interview with LE, his lies to LE, and everything else about MTR the Crown has presented to support their case.

 

[Macright]

True...but he might have been considering selling it to a US publicaton. They do not have to adhere to the Canadian ban I believe. And some of the more tabloid type ones would probably actually pay for the picture and publish it.

MOO

I don't think a US rag mag would be interested in a case in Canada and I doubt they would pay $$$ for a pix of MR...they could easily score one from one of the Cdn newspapers and secondly since when has anything that ever happened in Canada ever made the US news... ( no offence to our US posters)..JMO ... the very reason it has been taken down from any news site in Canada makes me believe there is more to this than meets the eye...time will tell....besides it was two people that took the pictures with two separate camera's...JMO one nosey guy I could understand but two...makes one go "what the heck"....

 

[roseofsharon]

I don't think a US rag mag would be interested in a case in Canada and I doubt they would pay $$$ for a pix of MR...they could easily score one from one of the Cdn newspapers and secondly since when has anything that ever happened in Canada ever made the US news... ( no offence to our US posters)..JMO ... the very reason it has been taken down from any news site in Canada makes me believe there is more to this than meets the eye...time will tell....besides it was two people that took the pictures with two separate camera's...JMO one nosey guy I could understand but two...makes one go "what the heck"....

http://www.timminstimes.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1528823&archive=true



http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Bsgx_beclakJ:www.amw.com/missing_children/brief.cfm%3Fid%3D64826+America's+Most+Wanted+adds+Tori+Stafford+to+data+base&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

 

[Macright]

The jeans are not Courtroom attire. The pants worn are a grey pinstripe and are very tailored. Look great with the bar jackets. Same pant on each of the crown.

I don't think he wore the jeans as part of his attire during the court hours..more than likely these lawyers keep their court clothes at the court house rather than drag them back and forth each day while the trial is going on.. I am sure the lawyers are assigned a room for the duration of the trial.. he is either commuting daily from Toronto or he is staying at a hotel during court days...so I wouldn't read anything into that photo..just saying...JMO and you are correct Bravo about the court attire...since Canadian law is based on the British system the only thing they don't wear anymore is the wigs which I believe they still wear in the British courts... JMO and actually some lawyers here in Canada still use the word solicitor rather than lawyer... I think there is another distinction between solicitors and barristers in Britain..I think it depends on the type of court etc. JMO not sure if the same applies in Canada...

 

[Macright]

http://www.timminstimes.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1528823&archive=true

that is an old article and I believe at the time John Walsh contacted the family or the other way around and also at that time the child was still missing and there was talk about the border being so close etc. etc. .. there was a blip shown on his show at the time...same with NG show.. she did touch on it... I am talking about now that the trial is going on.... JMO that is my belief and either way I don't think it has any bearing on the trial at this time... it was just my response to another poster re: US rag mag....