Whatever Happened to.....

[Sprocket]

The Laci Peterson case is a garden variety domestic homicide which proves my point. When the police started digging they found behaviors in Scott Peterson's background which suggested he could be the killer. Further digging developed enough evidence for an indictment. Same with David Westerfield.

I've never said Patsy could NOT have lost it. I have said I've never seen any evidence that she did. I think if one is going to build a theory that requires a person to react in a particular way then it should be built on real evidence.

I don't need to look to Patsy & John's past. Nor to Peterson's past. Post crime/incindent behavior, is what is the MOST revealing. To me, the Parents post incident behavior is VERY revealing. Post incident behavior is what detectives look at. And Patsy & John did everything they could to hinder this investigation. Why do you think that was? No way on this earth can you look at their behavior post incident and call it cooperative.

Just like Scooter couldn't spend the first night after Laci went missing in his house, neigher did the Ramseys ever go back to "that house." In fact, they evaded the police, and any indepth questioning, just like Scott Peterson did. When did they hand over their clothing? When did they sit down to be interviewed? MONTHS LATER. That post crime behavior is NOT the behavior of an innocent individual. You are entitled to you opinion about it, but, to me, a parent who doesn't spend every waking moment cooperating with police....has got plenty to hide.

 

[tipper]

I think the same emotion that caused Brenda van Dam to not want a memorial where Danielle's body was found caused the Ramseys to not want to go back to the house. If they were capable of doing all else they have been accused of they wouldn't turn a hair at returning to the house.

I believe Schiller quotes the FBI as saying both the Ramseys AND the BPD were responsible for the delays in being interviewed. I agree.

I would have to look it up to be sure but my recollection is that the Ramseys handed over their clothing about 13 months after the crime. BPD didn't ask for them until about 12 months after the crime.

 

[Shylock]

When the police started digging they found behaviors in Scott Peterson's background which suggested he could be the killer. Further digging developed enough evidence for an indictment. Same with David Westerfield.

There was nothing in Westerfield's background that suggested he would kidnap and murder a little girl. And I don't think Scott Peterson's cheating on his wife points to him being a murderer. A lot of people (like John Ramsey) cheat on their spouses and don't kill them.

 

[Ivy]

It amazes me that certain posters who insist that Scott Peterson is guilty even though there's no physical evidence implicating him in Laci's death as far as we the public know, are the same posters who insist the Ramseys are innocent even though there is physical evidence (hair, fibers, fake ransom note written by Patsy) implicating them in JonBenet's death.

imo

 

[Sprocket]

It amazes me that certain posters who insist that Scott Peterson is guilty even though there's no physical evidence implicating him in Laci's death as far as we the public know, are the same posters who insist the Ramseys are innocent even though there is physical evidence (hair, fibers, fake ransom note written by Patsy) implicating them in JonBenet's death.

imo

I think they're both guilty. And it's not the "evidence" in Peterson's case; it's his post incident behavior that convinced me. Sociopaths LACK a conscience. And Scooter-speak, to me (since I've studied this) shows evidence of him being a sociopath, and lacking a conscience. (And I've heard that speech before, where, we can't "diagnose" him; only a professional can...Sorry. I disagree.) Behavior IS revealing about individuals. Enter a room at a party; observe a few people; there are things you can tell about people just by being in their company for a few minutes.

The ransom note in the Ramsey case is pretty damming evidence. However, it was also the Ramsey's behavior post incident that convinced me they have some knowledge, or involvement in the death of their daughter.

Again and again and again and again. Innocent people, ACT innocent. There is a recognizable pattern of behavior, where having a conscience, will show in their actions and speech. They don't have a THING to hide.

 

[Toltec]

Not one poster in this forum knew the Ramseys personally although some think they did. Some in the swamp started naming JonBenet by her pet name Johnnie-B...oh puhleeze!

LHP knew what went on in the home...not the *advertiser censored* or hir minions. Close personal friend? I believe it was Patsy who asked LHP for some advise when it came to lovemaking??? What we did find out is that when Patsy disciplined JonBenet, she would take JonBenet into her bathroom to scold her....and it is my belief that Patsy took JonBenet into her bathroom Christmas nite.

Patsy did state that she grabbed some pullups that night to pack them for the trip to Florida....

IMO

 

[Wrangler]

I think the same emotion that caused Brenda van Dam to not want a memorial where Danielle's body was found caused the Ramseys to not want to go back to the house. If they were capable of doing all else they have been accused of they wouldn't turn a hair at returning to the house.

I'm sorry I have to speak up here. That first sentace shows me exactly how you try to defend the Ramseys and how skewed your thinking on this is.
The vanDam's didn't want to memorialize the dump site where their daughter's body was discarded like trash after Westerfield had used her and killed her. That is nothing like the Ramsey's leaving their home never to return.
JonBenet's body was not dumped, naked, in a place people dump their trash, out in the open and exposed to predators and insects for over a month. That other family who's daughter was murdered in her own bed never left their house never to return either.

 

[jubie]

Years ago a friend of ours broke his hand/wrist in three places. He said he fell while cleaning the gutters (or something lame like that) and we teased him about it every now and then calling him 'crash'. I always got a uneasy feeling looking at his eyes when it came up but I couldn't understand why. ANYWAY years later he told us (actually his wife did) that he had to tell the truth because he wanted to apologize to his kids. The kids were about 5 and 8 years old, they were bickering non-stop and Tom had warned them several times to knock it off. I guess you could say he snapped and his fist flew towards the eight year old who ducked and Tom's hand/wrist smashed against
a corner of the wall, I guess he had his back to the kids when he started the swing and as he turned around he said he knew it was gonna hit Jeff and it was the worst feeling he ever felt in his life. ANYHOW the kids never said anything and after many years he wanted the truth out and for his kids to know how sorry he was.

Whew that's alot words to tell a little story, sorry for rambling. My point is that this is a great family and NEVER before or after has he done anything like this, the kids openly talked with mum and dad about this one incident and she said you could tell the kids were happy it was out and telling the truth it was a one time thing. BUT what if Jeff hadn't ducked?


Parents DO get mad and lose it! So what happens when you get an already unstable parent in one of these situations?


Patsy Ramsey is strange. Plain and simple. IF she hurt JonBenet I don't believe for a second she'd take responsibility.

 

[tipper]

.

I'm sorry I have to speak up here. That first sentace shows me exactly how you try to defend the Ramseys and how skewed your thinking on this is.
The vanDam's didn't want to memorialize the dump site where their daughter's body was discarded like trash after Westerfield had used her and killed her. That is nothing like the Ramsey's leaving their home never to return.
JonBenet's body was not dumped, naked, in a place people dump their trash, out in the open and exposed to predators and insects for over a month. That other family who's daughter was murdered in her own bed never left their house never to return either.

Of course I try to defend them. I don't think they killed their daughter. Others here try to villify them. They think they did kill their daughter. That's how it works.

Proceeding from my belief that they are innocent do you think I should feel the van Dams have a better claim on pain than the Ramseys? You're correct that Brenda didn't want to memorialize the dump site. That was certainly her choice to make and I could understand her reasons. Other parents have made an equally understandable different choice:
______________________________

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/july/18/newsid_2514000/2514769.stm

…The partly covered body was lying 10 yards away from the A29 between Pulborough and Billinghurst
Sarah's parents, Sara and Michael, spent 20 minutes at the scene and laid flowers there. They looked at the tributes left by hundreds of well-wishers and police. …
http://www.mississauga.com/mi/insidenews/story/1781843p-2096533c.html

…Meanwhile, a makeshift memorial of flowers and candles near the crime scene is growing bigger with each passing hour.
Nearby residents, police and strangers from as far away as Orangeville have expressed their condolences by leaving flowers.
"When Cecilia went missing, she became everyone's child and everyone's daughter," said Streetsville resident Julia Langford, a mother of three who spent about an hour at the memorial with her children. "My kids prayed for her safe return every night they went to bed. She became like a sister to them. How could anyone do this?" …
_________________________________________

Most parents of children murdered in the home don't have the financial options available to the Ramseys. Given the same circumstances I'm not sure which decision I'd make. But I know I wouldn't want to walk around my house wondering about and imagining the terrible things that had been done to my daughter there and thinking about how hurt and frightened she was on that night.

Brenda van Dam says it is hard having Westerfield's house in the neighborhood. I suspect every time she sees an RV she thinks of how Danielle died. How would she feel if every day she had to walk over the room where Danielle was assaulted and killed?

 

[Britt]

I believe Schiller quotes the FBI as saying both the Ramseys AND the BPD were responsible for the delays in being interviewed.

All the more reason the Ramseys should've been a constant physical presence at the BPD to get the murder solved. If she were my child, they wouldn't be able to get rid of me. That's how an INNOCENT parent would act.

No amount of RST spin can make the Ramseys' behavior appear "normal" to anyone with common sense. Putting them in the same category as authentic parent-victims is an insult to the true victims.

 

[Sprocket]

If my child was found dead in my own home...would I be worred MORE about getting MYSELF and everyone possibly related to me an attorney, OR, would I be phoning the police department everyday, myself, instead of my attorneys, to see how I could help.

Innocent people, behave innocently.

 

[Blazeboy3]

ditto...it's a "snap-out-of-it WAKE-UP call" ... some take, some don't!? IMHO the parents(theR's) missed "the opportunity" to deal w/what they did...too simple IMHO and so sad :doh: :sick: :bang:

 

[Shylock]

How would she feel if every day she had to walk over the room where Danielle was assaulted and killed?

She has to walk by (or into) the room every day that Danielle was taken from. I don't imagine that feeling is much different.

 

[tipper]

She has to walk by (or into) the room every day that Danielle was taken from. I don't imagine that feeling is much different.

Brenda apparently is comforted by Danielle's rooom. I can understand that. This is what she thinks about the rest of it.


http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0301/03/lkl.00.html
VAN DAM: Yes, I do. Every day. And I feel -- you know, I know that we're going to have to leave our home because it's just not possible to stay there. My boys do not want to move. They do not want to leave their friends. They do not want to leave their school. But we have to. We have no choice unless we drive by that house every day. It's not something that I can do.

GRACE: Brenda, why is it you say you've got to move?

VAN DAM: I just think if we -- I can't drive by that house every day knowing that she was hurt in there. And that he just -- he came and he took my baby out of her room. And, you know, he just violated our whole family in the worst way possible. And I just -- I don't -- I'm not ready to give up her room. I really need to keep her room now, just so that I have a place to go and be with her. And I think that if we move to a new home and we get a fresh new start, that it might help in the healing process.

 

[Shylock]

Brenda apparently is comforted by Danielle's rooom. I can understand that.

Very interesting Tipper, thanks for posting that. Now it makes me wonder about Patsy and how she just abandoned everything about JonBenet. Not only did she not want to be in JB's room (like Brenda), but they move to a new location where there is no bedroom for JonBenet--like she never even existed.

 

[Sprocket]

Brenda apparently is comforted by Danielle's rooom. I can understand that. This is what she thinks about the rest of it.


http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0301/03/lkl.00.html
VAN DAM: Yes, I do. Every day. And I feel -- you know, I know that we're going to have to leave our home because it's just not possible to stay there. My boys do not want to move. They do not want to leave their friends. They do not want to leave their school. But we have to. We have no choice unless we drive by that house every day. It's not something that I can do.

GRACE: Brenda, why is it you say you've got to move?

VAN DAM: I just think if we -- I can't drive by that house every day knowing that she was hurt in there. And that he just -- he came and he took my baby out of her room. And, you know, he just violated our whole family in the worst way possible. And I just -- I don't -- I'm not ready to give up her room. I really need to keep her room now, just so that I have a place to go and be with her. And I think that if we move to a new home and we get a fresh new start, that it might help in the healing process.

It's obvious Brenda is conflicted. Wanting to be near her daughter through her daughter's room, and at the same time, seeing the house of the man who kidnapped her, every day. I'm sure there were a wash of conflicting emotions. And, her family took the time, to make a decision, on how it would afffect their other children.. They didn't leave their home, almost immediately, like the Ramsey's did.

 

[Barbara]

Brenda Van Dam has been actively involved in changing the laws and such regarding children and the violence, etc. against them.

Patsy Ramsey has done nothing in that regard. It would be unfair to criticize Patsy on that alone, but the difference is that the Ramseys wrote a book to pay their legal expenses, etc., all the while claiming the proceeds would be going to the JonBenet Ramsey Foundation. They spent so much time talking about change for children who become victims and then did nothing except collecting donations and using it for themselves. Paying legal expenses that you chose on your own to incur is not raising charity money. But, like all things Ramsey, charity begins at home (for them).

For that, I do criticize them. Not everyone can be like Brenda Van Dam, Walsh, Klaas, etc., but those who can't don't make claims that they will.

Therein lies the difference.

 

[Shylock]

Therein lies the difference.

And where is the Ramsey web page with case information and the "Tip Line"?

The Ramseys have given up the search for their daughter's killer it seems. I guess they are too busy trying to line up social functions and lunch time speaking engagements to care about the guy who is supposedly out there wandering the streets with JonBenet's blood on his hands.

Or maybe the Rammers expect to find their big, bad, intruder just skating around town:
The Charlevoix Community Skatepark Steering Committee was formed in December of 2003 to champion the completion of a community-built recreation facility...
John Ramsey of Charlevoix Comm. Skatepark Comm. Fundraiser Chair
Patsy Ramsey of Charlevoix Community Skatepark Committee Vice Pres

 

[K777angel]

Or maybe the Rammers expect to find their big, bad, intruder just skating around town:
The Charlevoix Community Skatepark Steering Committee was formed in December of 2003 to champion the completion of a community-built recreation facility...
John Ramsey of Charlevoix Comm. Skatepark Comm. Fundraiser Chair
Patsy Ramsey of Charlevoix Community Skatepark Committee Vice Pres

My guess is that Burke is probably a "skater." (Skateboards)
He probably complained that Charlevoix didn't have a skatepark so mom and dad are helping to provide one for him.
They just recently built one in our town.
And I can tell you it is NOT a place you want your kid.
I don't know what this one will be like, or if Burke is even a "skater" - but that would be my guess. Why else would John and Patsy care about a skatepark being built??

 

[Ivy]

At maketoast's forum a couple months ago or so, there was a post that included the URL for a website owned by Burke Ramsey and his Atlanta friends. There were photos of Burke skateboarding. He appeared to be quite good at it.

imo