Where Did JR Go To Check Mail?

[UKGuy]

UKGuy, it is possible that his father has told him JB is missing but that she has not been found. Burke's question needn't refer to anything else. It MAY but it needn't.

Burke can see the note -- whether Patsy is holding it or it's still spread out on the floor. If a boy sees his father looking at something he might easily wonder what it is, he might surmise that the note has been "found."

sandover,
Sure, you might be 100% correct. If Burke knows what was found, then why does he need to ask John what he found? When in the R's version of events its actually Patsy who finds the note?

Assuming Burke was present, he either knows the 911 call is staged or does not? This is critical since it suggests how complicit Burke is?

That is if Burke is aware events are being staged, he does not need to ask what was found.


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[Chrishope]

sandover,
Sure, you might be 100% correct. If Burke knows what was found, then why does he need to ask John what he found? When in the R's version of events its actually Patsy who finds the note?

Assuming Burke was present, he either knows the 911 call is staged or does not? This is critical since it suggests how complicit Burke is?

That is if Burke is aware events are being staged, he does not need to ask what was found.


.

And he does ask.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

This is a myth that has LONG been around. This is what really happened. The myth was started by Detective Linda Arndt, who famously lost control of the crime scene. She was unable to figure out how to keep track of the house full of people, even though she had a gun and could easily have ordered them into one room.
She "lost track" of JR for about 2 hours that morning, approx between 10 am and noon. During that time, she "thought" that JR must have gone to get his mail for no other reason than she saw him looking through mail when she "found" him again.
For one- the Ramsey house had a MAIL SLOT in the front door through which mail was delivered right inside the house. They NEVER needed to "go and get mail". All they had to do was walk into the foyer and pick it up from the floor.
Besides, would ANY parent of a kidnapped child who was supposedly waiting for a VERY important phone call actually leave the house to "go and get mail"?
Of course, THIS child wasn't really kidnapped. She was dead in the basement at the time JR was missing and later "looking through his mail". And her parents knew there was going to be NO phone call.
Still- at that time Arndt didn't know JB was dead in the basement and thought the kidnappers were still going to call. Yet she didn't think it "odd" that he would have left the house.
JR never left the house, nor did he say he did. That was all a figment of Arndt's imagination. He was, however, "missing". Many people (including me) feel he was actually in the wineceller, bring her body into a more easily viewed position. Rigor and livor mortis tell us that she was placed on her back shortly after death, and that her position did not change. BUT she could have been pulled closer to the doorway later without that having been evident.

As far as the "getaway" plans- to me, that SCREAMS guilty. Had they been truly concerned for the safety of their son and family, the police would have gladly provided that protection, or they could have hired security, all without leaving their dead child behind. INNOCENT parents would have been frantic in those first few days, frantic to talk to police, frantic to see that the investigation was in full gear and frantic to be cleared of suspicion. Yet- these two were oddly reticent. They did all they could to stall any police interviews and wouldn't allow them to talk to BR, whose bedroom down the hall from his sister gave him the opportunity to see and hear any "kidnappers".
The fact is that the police WANTED to arrest the parents on the spot. Or at least that day. The DA refused to allow it and refused to grant a warrant for the arrest. Instead, he told the police to "treat theses people (the Ramseys) like victims and not like suspects.". So the police could not arrest them.
And from the moment they walked out of that house (unsearched and unquestioned) they never looked back. They left their dead little girl under the Christmas tree, where little more than a day before she happily opened the presents from Santa. They distanced themselves from her when she was barely cold, never even asking to wait until she was taken to the morgue. They never entered the house again, and they never spoke of her death to her brother (according to them) again. When they had the funeral, Patsy was heard to say to BR, while standing at the coffin "See, she looks perfect, doesn't she?"
She did. All blonde curls and pink funeral parlor lipstick under the pink funeral parlor lamps. Frilly pink pageant dress and tiara. Just as perfect as that MyTwinn doll under the tree in its own "box", dressed just like JB in a frilly pageant dress and tiara on its blonde curls.

If John pulled JonBenet closer to been seen in the wine celler wouldn't there be evidence of it? Like a trail in the dust or on her blanket?

 

[UKGuy]

Here's a different way to look at it. BR asks "What did you find?"

Instead of asking about forensic evidence, it may be he was asking a simple open ended question, because he knew his parents were looking for something. IOWs one parent might have said something along the lines of "I'll check the basement" and BR asks, "What did you find?" Or one parent might have said "Look! I just found this" (This might have been said in reference to the RN) it would be natural for BR to ask what was found.

Chrishope,
In a world where nothing special is taking place, then maybe!

Most people do not wander around uttering non-specific sentences.

Burke had to be briefed regarding his staged role, all this would have been talked through prior to the 911 call, since the R's never knew when the police would arrive e.g. very fast.

Also Burke is not talking to Patsy, she is on the phone, so it must be John who is being questioned. This is why I do not think it was a vacuous, non-specific rhetorical question.

Then there is John's response, again not Patsy, e.g. suggesting this is a snippet of an ongoing conversation, not simply an ad-hoc query.

Assuming either PDI or JDI then the parents require Burke to sign up to his staging role. Yet in answer to his question, John communicates his displeasure to Burke, why so?

If Burke had just woken up and stumbled into the 991 call scenario, then What did you find? seems reasonable, but I reckon he was awake long before this, both Patsy and John will have told him his story, and that they were going to diall 911, then he must go to bed and fake being asleep.

And if Burke had just woken up, then, Whats happening? or similar, seems a more relevant question.

Patsy in her 911 call states:

PR: We have a ...There’s a note left and our daughter is gone

...

I don’t know. Just found a note a note and my daughter is missing

No I don’t know it’s there...there is a ransom note here.

So JonBenet is missing and Burke wants to know what was found? He is present during the call, he knows JonBenet is missing and that Patsy is reading from a ransom note!

John and Burke, for some reason, are having a background conversation:

"Help me Jesus, help me Jesus." That was clearly Patsy’s voice. Then, in the distance, there was another voice, which sounded like JonBenet’s brother.

"Please, what do I do?" Burke said.

"We’re not speaking to you," Hickman heard John Ramsey say.

Patsy screamed again. "Help me Jesus, help me Jesus."

And then, more clearly, Burke said, "What did you find?"

I interpret that as Burke asking John directly, What did you find?. Burke knows John has been searching somewhere, and this location is the subject of his question. Not Patsy's 911 call or the ransom note which she voices as being found.


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[twinkiesmom]

I do agree with you about Christmas though, something was the trigger, it could be the lack of videos or pictures, is a hint something else was going on?
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Patsy's 40th birthday was coming up at the end of December if I remember correctly.

 

[otg]

Would anyone's view of the circumstances around the 911-call be different if they knew it didn't come from the kitchen, but instead from the basement with the dead body there? Just imagine... all three Rs right there during the call, and JonBenet's cold, dead body lying just feet away from them.
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[DeeDee249]

If John pulled JonBenet closer to been seen in the wine celler wouldn't there be evidence of it? Like a trail in the dust or on her blanket?

Possibly- depend if he pulled her along the floor- then there would be evidence of that in the mold on the floor as well as on the blsnket. We have no informstion about that.
But JB could have been picked up and moved- at that point livor mortis would have been fixed and it would have not been apparent if she hsd been moved.

 

[Chrishope]

Chrishope,
In a world where nothing special is taking place, then maybe!

Most people do not wander around uttering non-specific sentences.

Burke had to be briefed regarding his staged role, all this would have been talked through prior to the 911 call, since the R's never knew when the police would arrive e.g. very fast.

Also Burke is not talking to Patsy, she is on the phone, so it must be John who is being questioned. This is why I do not think it was a vacuous, non-specific rhetorical question.

Then there is John's response, again not Patsy, e.g. suggesting this is a snippet of an ongoing conversation, not simply an ad-hoc query.

Assuming either PDI or JDI then the parents require Burke to sign up to his staging role. Yet in answer to his question, John communicates his displeasure to Burke, why so?

If Burke had just woken up and stumbled into the 991 call scenario, then What did you find? seems reasonable, but I reckon he was awake long before this, both Patsy and John will have told him his story, and that they were going to diall 911, then he must go to bed and fake being asleep.

And if Burke had just woken up, then, Whats happening? or similar, seems a more relevant question.

Patsy in her 911 call states:


So JonBenet is missing and Burke wants to know what was found? He is present during the call, he knows JonBenet is missing and that Patsy is reading from a ransom note!

John and Burke, for some reason, are having a background conversation:

I interpret that as Burke asking John directly, What did you find?. Burke knows John has been searching somewhere, and this location is the subject of his question. Not Patsy's 911 call or the ransom note which she voices as being found.


.

Most people do not wander around uttering non-specific sentences.

Actually, a lot of people do, especially kids under 10.

Then there is John's response, again not Patsy, e.g. suggesting this is a snippet of an ongoing conversation, not simply an ad-hoc query.

That makes sense. But can't the ongoing conversation be between PR/JR? That would make sense to me. They are having a conversation and they are not talking to Burke.

If Burke had just woken up and stumbled into the 991 call scenario, then What did you find? seems reasonable, but I reckon he was awake long before this, both Patsy and John will have told him his story, and that they were going to diall 911, then he must go to bed and fake being asleep.

You're assuming a lot here. I see no reason to assume he was up prior to hearing PR yelling for JR. He may have been, but just as easily (and consistently with the known facts) he could have gotten up just moments before the 911 call was made (or may have been awake in bed, but got up as PR yelled for JR) He would see PR holding the RN as she made the call, and may have been asking JR what was found?

And if Burke had just woken up, then, Whats happening? or similar, seems a more relevant question.

But during the 911 call, which BR must have heard at least part of if he was up and standing there in the kitchen as PR hung up the phone, PR answers the operator's question ("How long ago was this?" e.g. how long ago was your daughter kidnapped) with "I don't know, I just found the note" or something very much to that effect. So BR may just have been asking what was found. Not as specific as an adult, and not perhaps putting everything together as quickly as an adult would, but basically just a question as to what was found. IOWs a request for more details.

I interpret that as Burke asking John directly, What did you find?. Burke knows John has been searching somewhere, and this location is the subject of his question. Not Patsy's 911 call or the ransom note which she voices as being found.

What am I missing as far as JR having searched for something? Why would BR think JR had been physically searching for something? I agree the question was directed at JR (PR being on the phone) but I don't see a reason to interpret it as a question of what JR found. It seems to me a question as to WHAT was found?

 

[AngelontheRiver]

They admitted Burke was on the tape.

http://www.acandyrose.com/04032001enquirer.htm

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Possibly- depend if he pulled her along the floor- then there would be evidence of that in the mold on the floor as well as on the blsnket. We have no informstion about that.
But JB could have been picked up and moved- at that point livor mortis would have been fixed and it would have not been apparent if she hsd been moved.

But wouldn't John's shoe prints be there also? Like the High Tek shoe print? Did they ever date that print? Did LE leave any prints? If so were they eliminated from the crime scene?

Or did he place her there and she was stashed in another place? Lividly would of been fixed and it wouldn't of matter in moving her. JonBenet laid on the floor under the Christmas tree a long time before the ME showed up.

 

[wonderllama]

Well if they were down there, it would remove any doubt from everyone's mind that they did it.

(This was in reply to otg in case anyone was wondering)

 

[wonderllama]

They admitted Burke was on the tape.

http://www.acandyrose.com/04032001enquirer.htm

"they say they didn't find out Burke was awake the morning of the tragedy until he testified before a grand jury nearly two and a half years later"

That still doesn't explain the voice on the 911 call, because they're claiming they didn't KNOW he was awake.

 

[UKGuy]

Actually, a lot of people do, especially kids under 10.



That makes sense. But can't the ongoing conversation be between PR/JR? That would make sense to me. They are having a conversation and they are not talking to Burke.



You're assuming a lot here. I see no reason to assume he was up prior to hearing PR yelling for JR. He may have been, but just as easily (and consistently with the known facts) he could have gotten up just moments before the 911 call was made (or may have been awake in bed, but got up as PR yelled for JR) He would see PR holding the RN as she made the call, and may have been asking JR what was found?



But during the 911 call, which BR must have heard at least part of if he was up and standing there in the kitchen as PR hung up the phone, PR answers the operator's question ("How long ago was this?" e.g. how long ago was your daughter kidnapped) with "I don't know, I just found the note" or something very much to that effect. So BR may just have been asking what was found. Not as specific as an adult, and not perhaps putting everything together as quickly as an adult would, but basically just a question as to what was found. IOWs a request for more details.



What am I missing as far as JR having searched for something? Why would BR think JR had been physically searching for something? I agree the question was directed at JR (PR being on the phone) but I don't see a reason to interpret it as a question of what JR found. It seems to me a question as to WHAT was found?

Chrishope,

That makes sense. But can't the ongoing conversation be between PR/JR? That would make sense to me. They are having a conversation and they are not talking to Burke.

Really, Patsy was concurrently on the phone enacting the 911 call etc!

What am I missing as far as JR having searched for something? Why would BR think JR had been physically searching for something? I agree the question was directed at JR (PR being on the phone) but I don't see a reason to interpret it as a question of what JR found. It seems to me a question as to WHAT was found?

JR was having a conversation with Burke, the transcript outlines this, Patsy was on the phone, and at no point spoke to either JR or BR. from what was heard Burke is basically asking JR what can I do, JR replies "We are not talking to you" and Burke follows up with "What did you find".

Now if JR and BR were overheard having this conversation in a shopping mall, then I would assume BR would be referring to the merchandise. If they were out sailing on a boat, I would assume it would refer to something on the boat. If they were in a plane flying in the sky then it could refer to either the local geography or the inside of the plane.

Burke is asking John "What did you find", e.g. past tense. That is Burke has information relating to a prior event, it cannot be the current event, e.g. 911 call, and we know he has not just woken up, since he was briefed by his parents.

Why would you refer to the current event in the past tense, if Burke had just woken up, far better he simply asked, "Whats happening?" or "What happened?", "Why is Mom on the phone?"

Why would BR think JR had been physically searching for something?

Precisely my point, and if he did not think this, why bother asking what was found.

I agree the question was directed at JR (PR being on the phone) but I don't see a reason to interpret it as a question of what JR found. It seems to me a question as to WHAT was found?

If you agree the question is directed to John then the you in "What did you find, must address John. The only other interpretation is Burke using it loosely in the third-person?


Either way you still end up with Burke having information regarding a prior event during which John had the potential to discover something, with Burke then enquiring "What did you find?"

What you are missing is that Burke has not just arrived on the scene, he was there long before the 911 call was placed, he had been briefed by his parents as to his forthcoming role, so the conversation between Burke and John might be the tail end of Burke's briefing with Burke following up with informal enquiries, e.g. "What did you find?".

It could be as simple as a rhetorical "Did you search for JonBenet", but Burke is more specific in asking what was found.

 

[Chrishope]

Chrishope,

Really, Patsy was concurrently on the phone enacting the 911 call etc!

JR was having a conversation with Burke, the transcript outlines this, Patsy was on the phone, and at no point spoke to either JR or BR. from what was heard Burke is basically asking JR what can I do, JR replies "We are not talking to you" and Burke follows up with "What did you find".

What transcript are we talking about? If it's the transscript of the 911 call, there is no indication that BR/JR are having a conversation. PR is on the phone, JR is listening and BR is interrupting first with "Please, what do I do?" to which JR replies "We are not speaking to you". Burke a bit later asks "What did you find?" I don't see where this amounts to a conversation between JR and BR. One might be inferred, but there is no certainty that there has been an ongoing conversation.

Now if JR and BR were overheard having this conversation in a shopping mall, then I would assume BR would be referring to the merchandise. If they were out sailing on a boat, I would assume it would refer to something on the boat. If they were in a plane flying in the sky then it could refer to either the local geography or the inside of the plane.

Burke is asking John "What did you find", e.g. past tense. That is Burke has information relating to a prior event, it cannot be the current event, e.g. 911 call, and we know he has not just woken up, since he was briefed by his parents.

I'm sorry, how do we know he was briefed by his parents?

It seems to me he is asking WHAT did you find. Again I ask what makes you think BR had the impression that JR was physically searching the house? We know he didn't have to search because he knew exactly where the body was.

Why would you refer to the current event in the past tense, if Burke had just woken up, far better he simply asked, "Whats happening?" or "What happened?", "Why is Mom on the phone?"

Those would be better questions. But he has heard his mother tell the 911 operator that a note was found. He knows something very bad is going on, he can tell from his parents' mood, but he doesn't know what, and PR is holding the note, so his question is a request for additional info. It's essentially a question of what's going on? But he knows it has something to do with what's been found. So he asks about that.

Precisely my point, and if he did not think this, why bother asking what was found.

Because he has just heard his mother talking about something she found.

If you agree the question is directed to John then the you in "What did you find, must address John. The only other interpretation is Burke using it loosely in the third-person?

Yes, he's addressing JR, because his mother is on the phone and he assumes JR knows about this thing that's been found.

Either way you still end up with Burke having information regarding a prior event during which John had the potential to discover something, with Burke then enquiring "What did you find?"

I don't see that you've proven that.

What you are missing is that Burke has not just arrived on the scene, he was there long before the 911 call was placed, he had been briefed by his parents as to his forthcoming role, so the conversation between Burke and John might be the tail end of Burke's briefing with Burke following up with informal enquiries, e.g. "What did you find?".

Again, how do we know BR has been up since "long" before the 911 call? How do we know he's been briefed? It might have been this way, but it might not.

It could be as simple as a rhetorical "Did you search for JonBenet", but Burke is more specific in asking what was found.

If you want to spin a scenario so that Burke is complicit, I'd think you'd be better off focusing on his earlier question "Please, what do I do?" The question of what was found is very easily explained - the note was found, and BR heard his mother say something to that effect, so his question is just for clarification of the situation. But of course, if he's been briefed, and he's complicit, then he already knows what's been found, so why ask?

Getting back to the earlier question "Please, what do I do?" In itself that strikes me as a damn odd question. If he has just gotten up then why is there a need for him to do anything? His parents are handling the situation. "What's going on?" would seem a more likely question. This, I'd think, is the better question to focus on if you want to construct a scenario in which there's been a briefing and Burke has been given a role to play.

JR replies "We are not speaking to you". This strikes me as JR basically telling BR to shut up. BR is interrupting the very important 911 call, and is distracting PR from her task.

 

[otg]

Well if they were down there, it would remove any doubt from everyone's mind that they did it.

Exactly, my Ozzie friend.

Ever have or use a wall phone like the one in the R kitchen -- the one where the 911-call was supposedly made from?

What holds the receiver in place?

When the receiver is placed in the cradle, a small tab catches it with a corresponding slot in the speaker (top) end, which causes the connection to end as it slides into place. Right? If it’s not placed there properly, it falls. How could anyone think they had hung this kind of phone up, and not see or even notice the noise it made when it fell to the countertop below?

But what if you do the same thing with a desk phone?

With this type of phone, if you don’t place the receiver exactly in its cradle (a little too high, a little too low, a little too much to the side), it could easily go unnoticed that it didn’t fall into place and end the connection. It wouldn’t fall two or three feet to the counter below, it wouldn’t make a loud noise, it could easily sit there as if you had simply sat the receiver down to go get something without hanging up. The person on the other end of the connection would hear everything said in the room that was said loud enough to hear.

That is what I believe happened at the end of the 911-call where JR’s and BR’s voices can be heard. Patsy heard them talking in the background and didn't want the 911 operator to hear them. So she hurried to end the call, quickly slamming down the receiver -- not noticing that she hadn’t hung it up

This is the phone that was in the basement:

(When she did see that it wasn’t hung up, she probably had underwear that matched JonBenet’s.)
.

 

[Chrishope]

Exactly, my Ozzie friend.

Ever have or use a wall phone like the one in the R kitchen -- the one where the 911-call was supposedly made from?

What holds the receiver in place?

When the receiver is placed in the cradle, a small tab catches it with a corresponding slot in the speaker (top) end, which causes the connection to end as it slides into place. Right? If it’s not placed there properly, it falls. How could anyone think they had hung this kind of phone up, and not see or even notice the noise it made when it fell to the countertop below?

But what if you do the same thing with a desk phone?

With this type of phone, if you don’t place the receiver exactly in its cradle (a little too high, a little too low, a little too much to the side), it could easily go unnoticed that it didn’t fall into place and end the connection. It wouldn’t fall two or three feet to the counter below, it wouldn’t make a loud noise, it could easily sit there as if you had simply sat the receiver down to go get something without hanging up. The person on the other end of the connection would hear everything said in the room that was said loud enough to hear.

That is what I believe happened at the end of the 911-call where JR’s and BR’s voices can be heard. Patsy heard them talking in the background and didn't want the 911 operator to hear them. So she hurried to end the call, quickly slamming down the receiver -- not noticing that she hadn’t hung it up

This is the phone that was in the basement:

(When she did see that it wasn’t hung up, she probably had underwear that matched JonBenet’s.)
.

Interesting theory.

 

[UKGuy]

What transcript are we talking about? If it's the transscript of the 911 call, there is no indication that BR/JR are having a conversation. PR is on the phone, JR is listening and BR is interrupting first with "Please, what do I do?" to which JR replies "We are not speaking to you". Burke a bit later asks "What did you find?" I don't see where this amounts to a conversation between JR and BR. One might be inferred, but there is no certainty that there has been an ongoing conversation.



I'm sorry, how do we know he was briefed by his parents?

It seems to me he is asking WHAT did you find. Again I ask what makes you think BR had the impression that JR was physically searching the house? We know he didn't have to search because he knew exactly where the body was.



Those would be better questions. But he has heard his mother tell the 911 operator that a note was found. He knows something very bad is going on, he can tell from his parents' mood, but he doesn't know what, and PR is holding the note, so his question is a request for additional info. It's essentially a question of what's going on? But he knows it has something to do with what's been found. So he asks about that.



Because he has just heard his mother talking about something she found.



Yes, he's addressing JR, because his mother is on the phone and he assumes JR knows about this thing that's been found.



I don't see that you've proven that.



Again, how do we know BR has been up since "long" before the 911 call? How do we know he's been briefed? It might have been this way, but it might not.



If you want to spin a scenario so that Burke is complicit, I'd think you'd be better off focusing on his earlier question "Please, what do I do?" The question of what was found is very easily explained - the note was found, and BR heard his mother say something to that effect, so his question is just for clarification of the situation. But of course, if he's been briefed, and he's complicit, then he already knows what's been found, so why ask?

Getting back to the earlier question "Please, what do I do?" In itself that strikes me as a damn odd question. If he has just gotten up then why is there a need for him to do anything? His parents are handling the situation. "What's going on?" would seem a more likely question. This, I'd think, is the better question to focus on if you want to construct a scenario in which there's been a briefing and Burke has been given a role to play.

JR replies "We are not speaking to you". This strikes me as JR basically telling BR to shut up. BR is interrupting the very important 911 call, and is distracting PR from her task.

Chrishope,

Again, how do we know BR has been up since "long" before the 911 call? How do we know he's been briefed? It might have been this way, but it might not.

LOL, how do I know anything, how many egos do I possess, does Kurt Godel's Incompleteness Theorem demonstrate I cannot prove who killed JonBenet, was the death of Michael Jackson a KKK conspiracy, maybe, maybe not, he says, so how far have we advanced?

If you consider RDI and that BR played a role in the staging of the death of JonBenet Ramsey, which I do. Then he had to have been briefed as to his role , what to say etc. This he did, he went back to bed, played at being asleep and kept his mouth shut!

This could not have been accomplished if he had just risen from bed just prior to or during the 911 call, simples!

If you want to spin a scenario so that Burke is complicit, I'd think you'd be better off focusing on his earlier question "Please, what do I do?" The question of what was found is very easily explained - the note was found, and BR heard his mother say something to that effect, so his question is just for clarification of the situation. But of course, if he's been briefed, and he's complicit, then he already knows what's been found, so why ask?

What if its BDI, why should he require clarification on the unfolding staging?

Innocent or complicit Burke will know staging is in progress, why does he need to ask about that?

Why does BR need to do anything if he is simply an ignorant enquirer, seeking clarification? There is something else going on here, John was patently looking for something, and Burke asked what did you find, and John does not want to tell BR, "Actually I found JonBenet garroted in the wine-cellar", LOL, so he responds with "We are not talking to you", e.g. stop asking about what I found.


.

 

[UKGuy]

Exactly, my Ozzie friend.

Ever have or use a wall phone like the one in the R kitchen -- the one where the 911-call was supposedly made from?

What holds the receiver in place?

When the receiver is placed in the cradle, a small tab catches it with a corresponding slot in the speaker (top) end, which causes the connection to end as it slides into place. Right? If it’s not placed there properly, it falls. How could anyone think they had hung this kind of phone up, and not see or even notice the noise it made when it fell to the countertop below?

But what if you do the same thing with a desk phone?

With this type of phone, if you don’t place the receiver exactly in its cradle (a little too high, a little too low, a little too much to the side), it could easily go unnoticed that it didn’t fall into place and end the connection. It wouldn’t fall two or three feet to the counter below, it wouldn’t make a loud noise, it could easily sit there as if you had simply sat the receiver down to go get something without hanging up. The person on the other end of the connection would hear everything said in the room that was said loud enough to hear.

That is what I believe happened at the end of the 911-call where JR’s and BR’s voices can be heard. Patsy heard them talking in the background and didn't want the 911 operator to hear them. So she hurried to end the call, quickly slamming down the receiver -- not noticing that she hadn’t hung it up

This is the phone that was in the basement:

(When she did see that it wasn’t hung up, she probably had underwear that matched JonBenet’s.)
.

otg,
Could the origin of the phone used not be identified electronically? Interesting idea, so if the call comes from the basement what does that tell us? It certainly makes JR and BR's conversation more likely to be related to forensic evidence?



.

 

[otg]

otg,
Could the origin of the phone used not be identified electronically?

I don't think the technology existed (at the time at least) to identify an individual phone. They are both the same model of phone. I don't know if the thought ever occurred to investigators or if they simply took for granted that the call was made from the kitchen where the RN was written and found.

Interesting idea, so if the call comes from the basement what does that tell us? It certainly makes JR and BR's conversation more likely to be related to forensic evidence?

If you accept as fact that JR's and BR's voices are on the 911-call (Kolar tells us now that this was first noticed by the 911 operator who took the call), and if the call was made from the basement, there can be no denying that all three R's knew at that time that JonBenet was dead.

Have you listened to the 911 recording? There is no sound at the end like what would be expected from dropping the receiver two to three feet onto the countertop. And BR's voice can clearly be heard. The receiver could not have stayed in placed on the phone base without ending the call. Period.
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[Chrishope]

Chrishope,

LOL, how do I know anything, how many egos do I possess, does Kurt Godel's Incompleteness Theorem demonstrate I cannot prove who killed JonBenet, was the death of Michael Jackson a KKK conspiracy, maybe, maybe not, he says, so how far have we advanced?

If you consider RDI and that BR played a role in the staging of the death of JonBenet Ramsey, which I do. Then he had to have been briefed as to his role , what to say etc. This he did, he went back to bed, played at being asleep and kept his mouth shut!

This could not have been accomplished if he had just risen from bed just prior to or during the 911 call, simples!

What if its BDI, why should he require clarification on the unfolding staging?

But if it's not BDI (and it probably wasn't) then he would need clarification.

Innocent or complicit Burke will know staging is in progress, why does he need to ask about that?

Why does BR need to do anything if he is simply an ignorant enquirer, seeking clarification? There is something else going on here, John was patently looking for something, and Burke asked what did you find, and John does not want to tell BR, "Actually I found JonBenet garroted in the wine-cellar", LOL, so he responds with "We are not talking to you", e.g. stop asking about what I found.


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In order for your theory to make any sense JR would have have been looking for something. But he needn't look, as he knows where everything and everyone is. Or at least BR would have to think JR was looking for something. Why would BR think that? If he'd been briefed he already knew what he needed to know.

I'm curious, what do you think JR was looking for?