Who thinks Patsy is a normal mom and why?

[Fran Bancroft]

So unless you have been involved in it, how in the world could you have an opinion about it unless you are closed minded.

Kat
IMO

Kat, I have a great many deal of opinions on subjects that I am not "involved" in, that does not mean I am close minded...I am "opinionated". I don't feel the need to be "involved" in drugs to have an opinion, or foot ball, or science teams at school or a great deal of things...

Pageant's are for some, and not others, for a variety of reasons. While it is not something I will ever seek for my children, I think it is wrong for those who use this against Patsy...I think it is wonderful that she was so involved with her daughter and provided the opportunities and training for a successful future...I say shame on those who criticize her for it.

 

[KATKAT19691]

Kat, I have a great many deal of opinions on subjects that I am not "involved" in, that does not mean I am close minded...I am "opinionated". I don't feel the need to be "involved" in drugs to have an opinion, or foot ball, or science teams at school or a great deal of things...

Pageant's are for some, and not others, for a variety of reasons. While it is not something I will ever seek for my children, I think it is wrong for those who use this against Patsy...I think it is wonderful that she was so involved with her daughter and provided the opportunities and training for a successful future...I say shame on those who criticize her for it.

Sorry about that I was actually not refering to you at all in that comment. When I asked earlier I was wanting you to state your theory. I understand you believe that an intruder did it, I was just wondering how you thought a intruder did it. I actually have two theory, I either think burke and friend did it or I think an intruder did it. I am glad you made this thread, I have enjoyed the post so far.

Kat
IMO

 

[AuntieKaren]

Who can defend Patsy? Who thinks she has acted reasonably under the circumstances? Who feels like defending her against the criticisms...even if it's just a "role play" or devils advocate...if you think Patsy is guilty, can you play the other side of your doubts and confront your own conclusions?

I have never met Patsy so I can't comment, however, I do know that she is the mother of a murdered child. A role I hope no one here ever has to play.
Karen

 

[sissi]

Fran, pick up that cello!
Just a little advice from an "ole lady" who loved the violin, but put it aside to pursue motherhood and "a very similar stint with work", working in the local mental health facility, later psychiatric epidemiology. Playing the violin is unlike riding a bike, after 40 yrs I doubt I could pull off "the flight of the bumble-bee".
What you said about "intuitive profiling" is IMO the nuts and bolts of profiling at any level. It's often the anecdotal evidence and life experience that lead to more scientific findings. I agree Fran, if there were more known about many of the players and their interactions with this family ,we side chair dets' would have a good shot at figuring this out.
Many here feel it was the work of a child, I can not see this, however I can see immaturity, whether that indicates a 14 yr old, or a 27 yr old lacking emotional growth is impossible to discern. Putting together a theory is really impossible, however Arndt , Thomas, and many of the early cops assigned to this case didn't realize there is no room for "gut" feelings in a murder case, and put out ridiculous ones. They truly overstepped their level of expertise when they used "evidence concocted from internal conversations" (much of which was garbage) and decided this family killed Jonbenet. What is needed , was needed and hasn't changed is for someone to take every aspect of this murder ,with all of the gained evidence, and profile this killer.
Simple things, what age group wears the shoes
there were two sets..hi-tec ..sas
who purchases black tape..(we know statistics can be formed )
same with the type of rope, who purchases x number of yards and what are the top five usages
what cars were seen (out of place in the neighborhood)
find out more about the coke party (if it existed ,where it was, talk to the neighbors)
it's really fairly simple to put a stat next to every item used in the crime
We don't know why the BPD didn't do their homework, however it seems there were egos that played heavily into this investigation and sadly they were more important than the murdered child.
I have questions, where are the matching urine stains, could she have vomited her dinner (leaving the pineapple in her lower stomach) ,and lastly could anything indicate she was removed,murdered and returned?
imo

 

[BlueCrab]

... could she have vomited her dinner (leaving the pineapple in her lower stomach)

Sissi,

There's no evidence of JonBenet having vomited at any time on the 25th or the 26th.

JonBenet's cracked crab dinner was right about where it was supposed to be if she ate it 6 or 7 hours before she died -- in the large intestine. According to the Ramseys, they got to the White's house around 4 or 5 P.M. and dinner was served late, so she likely ate it around 6 or 7 P.M.

The pineapple, eaten by itself, was right where it should have been if she ate it about one hour before she died -- in the upper section of the small intestine.

JMO

 

[Fran Bancroft]

Sissi,

There's no evidence of JonBenet having vomited at any time on the 25th or the 26th.

JonBenet's cracked crab dinner was right about where it was supposed to be if she ate it 6 or 7 hours before she died -- in the large intestine. According to the Ramseys, they got to the White's house around 4 or 5 P.M. and dinner was served late, so she likely ate it around 6 or 7 P.M.

The pineapple, eaten by itself, was right where it should have been if she ate it about one hour before she died -- in the upper section of the small intestine.

JMO

Good information, Blue Crab. Is there a straightforward link for the first hand information about the food?

I'm impressed by your familiarity with the details and facts.

 

[BlueCrab]

Fran,

There may be a single credible link that covers the likely rates of digestion of the cracked crab meal and the pineapple that JonBenet had eaten, but I haven't been able to find it.

I made my estimate from information in the autopsy (where the cracked crab meal was located and where the pineapple was located in JonBenet's digestive system), and then researched on the web the digestive rates of different kinds of foods. However, a lot of unknown variables enter the equation, such as the quantity of food eaten, the sequence of the different kinds of foods eaten, etc., that can change the times of digestion.

For instance, pineapple, if eaten by itself and with nothing having been eaten ahead of it for 3 or 4 hours, will leave the stomach quickly and be in the small intestine in about one hour. But if a heavy meal had been finished just minutes prior to consuming the pineapple, then the pineapple would be blocked and would probably just sit for several hours and likely ferment waiting for its turn to leave the stomach and move into the small intestine. (The typical dinner takes 3 or 4 hours to leave the stomach.)

But there was no food in JonBenet's small intestine other than the pineapple, so it indicates she probably ate the pineapple around one hour before she died. The cracked crab meal had progressed to her large intestine where digestion of it was nearly complete.

JMO

 

[Fran Bancroft]

Good information, thanks.


Off topic: I think you should contribute to our "mystery" in the game room. :dance:

 

[AuntieKaren]

Good information, thanks.


Off topic: I think you should contribute to our "mystery" in the game room. :dance:

Speaking of which, I signed up for that but never got any follow up. I think I was forgotten about.
Karen

 

[Fran Bancroft]

Speaking of which, I signed up for that but never got any follow up. I think I was forgotten about.
Karen

I'm confused, are you talking about ??? the "mystery" game????? come, write with us, it's fun...

 

[sissi]

That is interesting BC, however there has NEVER been mention of finding anything similar to cracked crab in her system. She likely was upset to the point of vomiting and did so. JMO

 

[Fran Bancroft]

That is interesting BC, however there has NEVER been mention of finding anything similar to cracked crab in her system. She likely was upset to the point of vomiting and did so. JMO

Does anyone know if the autopsy info is available to answer this question of what was in her system?

 

[sissi]

G.I. Tract: The esophagus is empty. It is lined by gray-white mucosa. The stomach contains a small amount (8-10 cc) of viscous to green to tan colored thick mucous material without particulate matter identified. The gastric mucosa is autolyzed but contains no areas of hemorrhage or ulceration. The proximal portion of the small intestine contains fragmented pieces of yellow to light green-tan apparent vegetable or fruit material which may represent fragments of pineapple. No hemorrhage is identified. The remainder of the small intestine is unremarkable. The large intestine contains soft green fecal material. The appendix is present.

Linda Arndt was present at the autopsy, it was her suggestion to Meyer that the material may be pineapple. We have heard from Thomas that it was tested and proven to be just that,pineapple, however it has never been part of any released report that I have ever seen.

 

[infinitepink]

Fran, I can.

Patsy Ramsey, along with John, Burke, the rest of the Ramsey family, the district attorney, the court, and other selected Boulder officials, are all in the same boat. They all know who killed JonBenet, but they can't tell. They have to continually lie and make up stories to hide the truth.

IMO the grand jury solved the killing of JonBenet in 1999, very young children (under 10) were involved, and the Colorado Children's Code and the court gag order prevents them from speaking out under penalty of criminal prosecution, loss of their jobs, and other unwanted horrors happening to them.

JMO

This is an interesting statement.

Exactly what information do you have that helped you form this opinion? Please share.

 

[infinitepink]

*snip*
I don't think there is anything wrong with pagents or being cheerleaders or anything else. It us usually people who could not compete in pagents or make it as cheerleader or who have daughters that could not that are so against them. I don't mean to insult anyone or their child. But if you have ever done any of it, you would know that it is like a club, something fun to do and yes it makes you special as I think we can all agree JonBenet was.

Any activity that sexualizes a child is wrong. Period.

Pageants and cheerleading sexualize children before they are able to comprehend what is happening. I, for one, would not want to mess up a kid's head like that. The effects can (and often do) last a lifetime.

To say that "it's usually people who could not compete in pageants, etc." is absurd. Some of us incredibly beautiful people just have more common sense than to exploit ourselves or our children simply for the ego-stroke.

Lastly, JonBenet was special because she was a gift from God, not because she was able to perform like a trained poodle. Being born into wealth may have given her many opportunities in life, but with loathsome parents like John and Patsy that poor child didn't have a chance. She became their creation, which I suspect was far from who she would have become if she had been allowed to have a healthy childhood.

No one will ever know who JonBenet truly was because of them.

 

[TressaRing28]

Pageants and cheerleading sexualize children before they are able to comprehend what is happening. I, for one, would not want to mess up a kid's head like that. The effects can (and often do) last a lifetime.

To say that "it's usually people who could not compete in pageants, etc." is absurd. Some of us incredibly beautiful people just have more common sense than to exploit ourselves or our children simply for the ego-stroke.

Inifinte Pink --You are wrong about Pageants and cheerleading, Where do you get such rot?

My son played little league Football and his cousin was a cheerleader for his team. They were the same age and since the girls didn't play ball they got to be cheerleaders. It damn sure didn't sexualize the little girls ANY. I take great offence to you saying it would.

Pageants are not all as you say---- Unless you have been in such an event or was talent at such an event, or sponsored such an event, you have NO right to say what would, or would not constitute sexualization of said event.

Give me a break...


You speak of ego's Well it sounds like yours is running in overtime.

Can hear I a cheer for truth and understanding for the fortunate humans male and female who enter pageants and who cheerlead in sports and might I add life...

Go team in our search for Justice for JonBenet.

 

[KATKAT19691]

Inifinte Pink --You are wrong about Pageants and cheerleading, Where do you get such rot?

My son played little league Football and his cousin was a cheerleader for his team. They were the same age and since the girls didn't play ball they got to be cheerleaders. It damn sure didn't sexualize the little girls ANY. I take great offence to you saying it would.

Pageants are not all as you say---- Unless you have been in such an event or was talent at such an event, or sponsored such an event, you have NO right to say what would, or would not constitute sexualization of said event.

Give me a break...


You speak of ego's Well it sounds like yours is running in overtime.

Can hear I a cheer for truth and understanding for the fortunate humans male and female who enter pageants and who cheerlead in sports and might I add life...

Go team in our search for Justice for JonBenet.

Give me a T... Give me a R... Give me a E... Give me a S... Give me a S... Give me a A... What does that spell? Someone with some common sense. Thanks Tressa.
I again stand by my statement. It is mostly, those who do not have the talent or the self assurance that gives this bad name to pagents and cheerleading. Again I would say that the previous poster either tried and could not or was to shy to be involved in either, this kind of typing comes from someone who NEVER has had the pleasure of being in either.
HMMMM. Nope I do not have any scares, it did not kill me and I have some great friends now for over 20 years. I guess there always has to be a bad apple in the bunch but the hole should not be punished.
I always say to, if ya see something sexual in it, ya might want to question you seeing a child that small as a sexual thing. All I see is a beauty, that has talent and drive. No one has ever proven that JBR did not want to be doing just what she was doing. Most of the girls do love it. So sorry, you are wrong infinitepink. Most people with your opinon are the few that could not make it.

Ms. T. Watch out I am sure that bm will be lurking here somewhere soon.... get your prunes ready lol.

Kat
IMO

 

[infinitepink]

Now ladies... let's not get snippy with one another -- you know, like catty cheerleaders and beauty queens are known to do. :crazy:

By the way, KATKAT... you spelled Tressa's name wrong in your little shout-out.
But I am sure you looked positively adorable while you where doing it.

 

[BlueCrab]

This is an interesting statement.

Exactly what information do you have that helped you form this opinion? Please share.

Infinite,

I don't have any more information about this crime than any other private citizen.

My JonBenet murder theory is based on Burke and one or more other very young boys as the perps, and the grand jury solving the case in 1999.

However, since the Colorado Children's Code makes it illegal to even mention the name of an offender under 10 years of age who was involved in a major crime, the truth will never be officially known to the public. But there are ways to figure out what likely occurred in the death of JonBenet.

For instance, the lies and coverup tactics by the Ramseys seem to point to an effort to shield Burke. This began on day one when the Ramseys lied to the police about Burke being in bed until 7 A.M., when the enhanced 911 tape proved Burke was up and engaged in conversations with his parents at 5:52 A.M.

Efforts to shield Burke also included when John lied under oath about the Ramsey/Stine relationship during a deposition in an obvious attempt to distance Burke Ramsey and Doug Stine from one another, when the two boys were actually the best of friends.

Grand jury behavior also influenced me. The jurors quizzed Burke, a "little boy who was asleep and didn't know anything" for 5 hours on May 19, 1999. The jurors took a 4-month hiatus after Burke's testimony as investigators checked out what Burke had told them . At the end of the 13-month grand jury investigation the jurors called in Susan Stine, but they never called the two most important witnesses in the case -- John and Patsy Ramsey. The jurors obviously had all the information they needed to solve the killing. When the GJ permanently adjourned in October of 1999 the court immediately slapped a gag order on everyone involved, funding for an active investigation ceased, and that's where the case stands to this day.

There are numerous items of evidence in support my conclusion that Burke killed JonBenet or knows who killed her, and at least one other boy was likely also involved. These items of evidence include DNA evidence, handwriting evidence, and polygraph evidence.

JMO

 

[sissi]

It's just BC's gut feeling that Burke killed Jonbenet, there is no evidence pointing to this conclusion. The real evidence points to an intruder ! This has been determined by experts in LE ,Judge Carnes ,and Mary Keenan, we can hope these people have more to "work with " than the rest of us.
Statistically murdered children are murdered by their drug addicted,drunk, or otherwise mentally unhealthy parents. Statistically the number of children that were murdered that were also in pageants is round to 0.
Kidnapped children, I believe Jonbenet was one, are normally kidnapped by non-custodial parents,followed by mother's lovers and family friends, less often by "opportunity offenders" in a snatch and grab, far more rarely by unknown intruders in their home. However in the light of
Elizabeth Smart, Danielle Vandam, and Polly Klass, we can see the more we watch our children the more risk the perp is willing to take to get them.
Jonbenet's kidnapping was planned,killing her was likely an accident, returning her body to the basement was genius. IMO (I see no evidence that determines the murder was committed in the home)