Why are you on the fence?

[I Din Doot]

Why am I on the fence? I guess it's because I'm not willing to convict anyone (even in my own mind) without solid, direct evidence.

I fully understand why TH appears guilty. I ponder all the reasons that have been given that point to TH's involvement in Kyron's disappearance, and I agree with many of those reasons. I also agree with many of the reasons that have been given that point to TH's innocence.

Nevertheless, I need something more before I take that step from "I'm suspicious of her" (which I am) to "I 100% believe she's guilty" (which I'm not).

I sometimes lie awake at night asking myself what it would take to convince me one way or the other. I still have some doubt of her guilt, since so much of the circumstantial *evidence* has other possible explanations that can either infer guilt or can infer innocence (which ultimately places the burden of proof upon the prosecution).

I'm on the fence because there are several ways to perceive TH's words & actions. If I look at her actions & words in one light, I perceive that she's possibly guilty. But if I look at her actions & words in another light, I perceive that she's possibly innocent.

I don't mind being on the fence, since I don't see this as a competition to predict the final outcome - there is no prize for being *right*.

All I want is for LE to solve this case, no matter who is guilty. All I want is for Kyron to be found & for whomever is responsible for his disappearance to be brought to justice.

ETA: The only ones that need to be right are LE. In the bigger picture, the opinions of me or anyone else are completely irrelevant.

I would agree with everyone ... even this post, except it is all maybe,maybe, and if.

LE is working this case and everything we wish we knew they already have. I will vote AFTER evidence is presented that is conclusive.

 

[cluciano63]

While I admit my fence is wobbly and narrow, I am still on it. There are other cases, some mentioned here, where much of the public felt comfortable with the direction LE seemed to be taking, and turned out to be wrong. (Riley Fox case, etc.) And then there are other cases when people not guilty act suspiciously, for various reasons. Tonight in fact I watched a Forensic Files about a girl murdered in J'ville, FL some years ago; there was a man at her work who not only stalked her but also told the police how exactly he would have slit her throat; and there was a woman with a crush on her who was the last to see her alive who told her friends, inexplicably, that she had talked to the victim Corey (Parker) on the phone just before the killer must have come in and that she later went and peeked in the window at her apt. and saw her dead (she did not call her nor did she go over.) Anyway the murderer was a neighbor who was watching her from his window...the other two were just weirdos.

Sorry to go off on a tangent, but I guess I just want real evidence, as in a confession matching the evidence, DNA, witnesses, something solid that proves as much as possible that Terri, and no other, committed this act.

 

[craftybatchy]

There are so many players other than Terri Horman who have motive, means, and opportunity to effect the disappearance of this child. The whole damn thing just feels off and has felt that way from the get go.

Puppet strings, scripted, Gaslighting, or Wagging the Dog ... something is up and it goes beyond the fact that Kyron is not here to answer our questions himself.

I like the fence - I am up high, and have a great view. Splinters in my *advertiser censored* be damned.

 

[SacreBleu]

If I am on the fence, it is because I believe in the credo "Innocent until proven guilty."

If I am honest, I have jumped off the fence....many times. Each time I have jumped off, it has been on the side of "guilty." Sometimes my reason is "evidence"; sometimes it is "instinct."

Again, if I am honest, I trust instinct, in this case, more than I trust evidence because, quite frankly, the evidence that WE know is scarce; and, because I have been told to "always trust your instincts, because you don't have bad ones."

I suppose, in this respect, I identify most with Desiree. My children have a stepmother. I could no more suspect her of harming them than the man in the moon. Even though I have reason to resent her, I truly believe that she is completely incapable of intentionally causing harm to anyone. Obviously, Desiree's feelings about Terri are that she could cause harm to Kyron. I have to respect Desiree's feelings.

 

[BeanE]

I'm on the fence because LE hasn't named a POI or suspect yet, and there is no evidence of involvement on the part of anyone I can identify. By evidence, I mean something I can point to that is solid, backed by a highly credible source, and convinces me that, without doubt (not talking reasonable doubt here - I'm not a juror ), the person is involved.

Lacking that evidence and named POI or suspect, I want to keep an open mind, and explore all the alternatives objectively, because I very much want to know what happened to Kyron.

If LE names a POI/suspect, or arrests someone and charges them with charges related to Kyron's disappearance, that will tell me that LE has sufficient probable cause. At that point, I wouldn't even need to know what that probable cause is - I trust because MCSO and this DA are taking their time and being careful, that if they charge someone, or name them a POI/suspect, they then have real evidence of involvement and of a crime.

Additionally, the company on the fence, as well as the food and drinks, are great!

 

[Beyond Belief]

Actually I think I am under the fence. I just haven't gotten enough input to convince me positively of anything.






Remember: Vote for Giancarlo every day.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113382&highlight=gerber+generation

 

[STEADFAST]

I've got a toe on the fence because I acknowledge that there is the most infinitesimal, teeny, tiny, pinkie-toe-sized chance that Terri isn't involved in Kyron's disappearance. And that elephants can fly.

 

[Wings Of Light]

There are so many players other than Terri Horman who have motive, means, and opportunity to effect the disappearance of this child. The whole damn thing just feels off and has felt that way from the get go.

Puppet strings, scripted, Gaslighting, or Wagging the Dog ... something is up and it goes beyond the fact that Kyron is not here to answer our questions himself.

I like the fence - I am up high, and have a great view. Splinters in my *advertiser censored* be damned.

I have to agree at this point.

I actually believe that law enforcement have absolutely ZIP on Terri Horman.

I know a lot of people think that LE know better... but the fact is that their behavior is indicative of them knowing nothing. Given the money they've spent on this case, it would be embarrassing for them to admit that out of all of it, they've got nothing to show for it. I think they've purposefully let Kaine and Desiree control the information that is out there because it makes it seem like the investigation is moving forward.

The last time I heard though, Kaine and Desiree have said themselves that there is no evidence. In fact, I remember being taken aback when they said it.

Not to mention the absolutely astounding actions of police whereby they ask people for information on where cars were parked 2 months later. There is nothing to excuse that. As a test, I asked my girlfriend when she came home from work yesterday if she could remember any of the cars parked in the lot when she left work. The answer was no... and it had been under 2 hours.

My gut feeling tells me... LE are no closer to finding Kyron than they were on the afternoon of June 4th.

I just wonder how long it is going to take the community before they start asking LE for some actual proof that it was not a stranger abduction... something LE have been saying since day 1 hour 1 without giving any evidence or reason why they believed it to be true.

 

[goatman]

My being on the fence is a very personal one to me.

My brother was murdered in prison. He was in prison for a crime that he was convicted on based on circumstantial evidence. After my brother had passed away, the true guilty party confessed to my mom that he was the one to commit the crime. Until the guilty party confessed my family thought my brother was guilty. We believed in the justice system and we believed in the LE who investigated.

Growing up, my brother had trouble with law enforcement. He was a troublemaker and was by no means an angel. He had been incarcerated before and my mom had had it. For her, this was the last straw and she vowed to not speak to him until he truly turned his life around. He repeated pleas of innocence after he was found guilty just ticked her off more-for her it was "man up and do the time".

After he was convicted the next time my mom saw my brother was when he was in the ICU...and a doctor was telling her that if she didn't 'pull the plug' it wouldn't make a difference.

Then, another person confessed to throwing the glass that landed my brother in jail on 'attempted murder'.

Because I have seen what circumstantial evidence has done to the innocent and their families. Because being an odd/off/weirdly into sexting person doesn't make one guilty of disappearing a child. Because I have seen how LE tunnel vision works. Because I can see alternative explanations that point to innocence for all the 'facts' in this case. I am on the fence.

We live in an "innocent until proven guilty" society. The burden is on the state to prove TH's guilt. And I have not seen that "beyond a reasonable doubt" yet.

I am on the fence quite happily and contentedly. I am not wearing rose colored glasses. I know that there are truly evil people in this world. People who would harm children and destroy families. I know this. And if it is proven that TH is one of these people I will the first in line on the conviction side (even if it means budging). But until then, I wait. Because right now, she just seems extremely odd- and odd doesn't mean guilty.

 

[matou]

Until I see actual charges against TH for a MFH plot against her husband, then I will stop believing that whole MFH thing is complete bs. This would be part of a motive to hurt Kaine: to make Kyron disappear. I can't see Terri harming Kyron since she is a mother herself. However, I think she may be a significant factor to what happened to Kyron. This whole case confuses me though. I just can't see her hurting Kyron or killing him.

 

[scotslass]

i'm on the fence as there has been no evidence presented that would lead me to say Th is guilty and nothing that says she is not. What i'm left with after looking at what has been reported is a character formation that is conflicting at best. We have friends sticking by her, a husband that was convinced she was a good person (in the beginning). A school community that embraced her early on people spoke out and defended her. TH volunteered and was an active participant in the school this is important to me as Kyron is her only child that attends which to me says she made time for him.

Some of the reports from the family & Sources on TH bother me.. PPD, taking or not taking of drugs. Her being so devoted to baby K to baby k being a different child not asking for TH. Secretly drinking, her relationship with J, Her being a compulsive liar but then using things she has said as gospel at times.

I see two distinct sides to what we know of TH and nothing to really sway me one way or the other to what her true self is. This why i'm on the fence neither innocent or guilty there are many many reasons to look at Th as being involved but for me personally just as many that lead me to her not being responsible for kyron's disappearance. I go from seeing her as a perp to a victim (she has absolutely lost everything her home, her children, her husband, her place in society(the town she lived in..could she move back? would she want to?) If she is not responsible my heart breaks for her, she too must be devastated at the loss of Kyron and on top of that all the other losses that have compounded since then.

If she is responsible then i can see where the statement of ice in her veins came from how could one person be so evil to harm this child, destroy the lives of their other children (not to mention all other people this has utterly destroyed including her own parents if she has no compassion for the hormans & youngs )and endure the compounded losses and say nothing...

I really want to be off the fence, which side doesn't bother me what bothers me is Kyron is still missing!! It is well past time that he should be brought home. Someone knows where he is, someone is evil enough to have done this I just hope someone somewhere learns the truth and pursues justice for Kyron by bringing him home and convicting those responsible.

I'm waiting for the evidence to play out at this point I'm not sure where that evidence leads if anywhere and that is the most disturbing thought for me to date.

 

[cluciano63]

I just don't have the faith in LE in this case that others do, or that I usually have myself in LE. Sometimes, LE staying silent and secretive means they are "on the verge" of making an arrest. Sometimes it means they are lost and fumbling. I've followed criminal cases for many years and have seen it happen both ways. There is absolutely no way to tell, from the outside, which is the case here.
I think when LE found that landscaper, they thought, ok, this is it, we've got her. And then that whole thing began to seem less solid, possibly more of a disgruntled wife mouthing off to a male admirer, no talk of a plan, no money exchanged, etc. And so then they go back and try to round up witnesses-again. They had already tried that with the first flyer. They still think its her, but since her timeline seems to be checking out, they think she must have a friend. So they start waving around pictures of her friend. Then, when no one bites, they say, no, not her, someone else.
I'm just lost and at least I admit it. Not sure LE is willing to do the same.

 

[scotslass]

We must ask ourselves why we know the identity of Dede's ex-boyfriend and yet not the landscaper with whom Terri allegedly discussed murdering her husband.

respectively snipped and BBM

Does this mean RS is not the landscaper? I thought it was reported he was along with the name of his company and the town registered and that the press tried to locate him at two addresses but he was not found at either..hmmm off to check that...

 

[cypress]

respectively snipped and BBM

Does this mean RS is not the landscaper? I thought it was reported he was along with the name of his company and the town registered and that the press tried to locate him at two addresses but he was not found at either..hmmm off to check that...

I don't believe he's been outed in the press. His name is floating around the Internet, but it hasn't been confirmed as far as I know. Either way, virtually no attention has been given him, which is odd considering the MFH plot and Desiree and Kaine's statements are, IMHO, what have helped convict Terri in the court of public opinion.

 

[craftybatchy]

I have a name for my fence. I like to call it Due Process.

 

[Donjeta]

Some of the reports from the family & Sources on TH bother me.. PPD, taking or not taking of drugs. Her being so devoted to baby K to baby k being a different child not asking for TH. Secretly drinking, her relationship with J, Her being a compulsive liar but then using things she has said as gospel at times.

SBM.

I have no idea if KH and DY's perception that she is a habitual liar is correct or not but you can usually trust some things that habitual liars say, IMO. For example, if they said anything to incriminate themselves it probably contains a grain of truth. Lies are usually motivated by the desire to get off the hook for something and people generally make up lies that make them look better, not worse. So if they make statements of the type "I did X but it was because of N" where X is a behavior that some might consider suspicious or reprehensible and N is a saintly reason for doing X, you may or may not want to believe it was because of N but you can pretty much bet the farm that the potentially reprehensible behavior X that they're trying to find an excuse for happened, or, in case it didn't they're admitting to X because they engaged in behavior Y which was even worse than X.

 

[Trident]

I'm on the fence because common wisdom states human beings are social animals, they congregate, stay together, seek each other's comany. I'm a human being and the seeming majority of my fellow posters believe TH is guilty. Therefore, I feel I "should" be on the fence, just in case. However, the other side of me remembers the Native American trick of stampeeding buffalo over a cliff. The ones that hung back survived - that makes me a bit leery, so maybe I'm more hiding behind the fence than running with a TH "did it" theory.

I'm also leery of the posters LE made up with TH's pic, the truck, and DD being passed around. IF LE had anything of real value, I cannot comprehend them doing this, it seems so "in your face", so "on the Post Office wall". I thought you had to be a suspect or at least that new moniker, POI, before they could plaster your face in public?

I'm on the fence because I know I don't have the whole story, and for some reason the MSM isn't coming out with all of it. Control? From whom? Maybe a threat of not being "included" in the next briefing or PR? Who knows, but it doesn't seem like the press is doing much "digging". Maybe they like being spoon fed? Who knows.

I'm on the fence because of all the tactics I see as intimidation, like civil suits, and outright accusations with no proof (that I've seen/heard) to back them up.

Maybe I'm not "on" the fence so much as using it as a shield?

My Opinion Only

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Thanks for starting this thread!

I am on the fence for several reasons.
1. There is no solid proof that Terri Horman was/wasn't the last person to see Kyron. Maybe LE has something, but there seems to be conflicting reports on whom saw Kyron last.
2. MFH plot came out of left field. I think someone was meddling, stirring the pot. I still have hope that humanity is just that - human, and if someone was approached with a MFH plot they would tell the police. Never happened, but they try to go in with wires months after the "attempt" to hire. That has ALWAYS sat odd with me. Always.
3. Did Terri leave at 8:45 AM that day, or was it 9:00? No one knows for certain, but what I feel is that it is very possible to make it to that first drug store going a certain MPH and leaving at a certain time. I think she might of rounded up in that email to a friend because at that point she wasn't being scrutinized by the police and the media. I think she finally got 8:45 AM down when she provided LE her receipts.
4. I too drove my child around in the car for them to fall asleep. Teething stages were the worst!! (So, I empathize there a bit.)
5. I don't see anything odd about the relationship with Dee Dee. We have all been brought information that Dee Dee was probably helped through her unemployment by friends, she most certainly didn't get that from the boyfriend. I think Dee Dee, as a friend, returned that support. "Pay it forward." The phones and how much they look alike do spook me a bit, but I think phones were just a "Doh!" moment.
6. I value my privacy quite a bit and could only imagine what it must feel like to have every move calculated and almost waited on. Living under a microscope doesn't sound fun, and having that contact with the outside world is important. Ask any prisoner that receives a letter or visit from their family. The phones could of been used like that (I just made a horrible analogy, but you get the idea.) I think this is the same reason Terri resorted to the Internet to try and prove herself as well.
7. I have always thought it was odd that Kaine told her to remain quite in the beginning.
8. I think it is odd that the pressers from the family are taped and broadcast at a certain time. I think it's even more strange that some affiliates are not allowed in.

-----------------------------------------------

I will probably add to this later on, this is all I can think of off the cuff but I believe it's enough.
I couldn't ever imagine being a juror. I don't think there is a lot of solid evidence, and I believe that LE was trying to solve this too quick. I wish on June 5th LE would of taken two steps back, instead they barrel rolled with the accusations.

JMO, of course.

Until I see solid evidence I probably won't ever "convict" Terri. I try and keep my emotions in check because hope for Kyron is all the remains, and it's all that is needed.
I won't waste anything else, positive or negative, on anyone else involved (or not.)

I agree with all you say, which is why I too am on the fence. I hate when LE seem to develope "tunnel vision" for it clears the way for the real perp to get states away. Also this MFH nonsense, why now? Why not when he was allegedly first approached? Seems like this is an insert yourself into a case thing, to me..

I also am very angry that Kaine can tell the parents from the school, the school is safe, does he have solid proof that Kyron was no stranger abduction?? I mean real proof not just suspicions...yes, TH was the last one to see Kyron at school but when she left someone else didn't notice this boy wasn't in his class??? Something is terribly wrong but I'd hate this to truly be a stranger abduction and LE are focused on the wrong person...I want Kyron home with his parents. I want Kyron found...too many children seem to disappear in a "worm" hole...vanish without a trace...JMHO

Where is Kyron...