Why did the Grand Jury not indict the Ramseys?

[Holdontoyourhat]

The CORONER cut the cord, and mentions it in the report. He marks the severed ends with either one dot or two (with a magic marker) to show where he made the cuts. That's why it looks frayed, but to me, it would look frayed a month later, too so "fresh" isn't really the right way to describe it.
And there are not many RDI who actually believe that the Rs bought the tape and cord for the purposes of murdering their daughter. (though there are some who believe this, I am not among them). Of course they were bought for an innocent purpose. They are common household items, especially the cord, which many amateur artists (Patsy was one) make slings to carry their rolled-up paintings. And what household doesn't have duct tape? ANOTHER reason why is was so suspicious that none was found in the home.
My only explanation for the absence of two very common items? Removed by the Rs.

Uh, I posted '2nd ligature'. I suggest having a look at THAT photo instead and come back when you're ready, K?

Not too many people buy BLACK duct tape. Who here owns black duct tape, anybody?

 

[BBB167893]

Not too many people buy BLACK duct tape. Who here owns black duct tape, anybody?

My hand is up.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

My hand is up.

Why do you own duct tape that isn't gray?

 

[Tadpole12]

Hi Hotyh.

black duct tape:
http://www.nextag.com/black-duct-tape/compare-html

 

[DeeDee249]

Uh, I posted '2nd ligature'. I suggest having a look at THAT photo instead and come back when you're ready, K?

Not too many people buy BLACK duct tape. Who here owns black duct tape, anybody?

The duct tape laying on the white blanket in the crime photos appears to be silver. JR was asked about the duct tape, and he described it as being like electrical tape (which is black) only wider. So there are conflicts there. Possibly it is silver on one side, black on the other.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

The duct tape laying on the white blanket in the crime photos appears to be silver. JR was asked about the duct tape, and he described it as being like electrical tape (which is black) only wider. So there are conflicts there. Possibly it is silver on one side, black on the other.

He described it as black. And the 2nd ligature is freshly cut.

You've got such a spin going on I can barely read this stuff.

 

[SeekingJana]

I haven't read the other replies to the initial question, but my firmly held view is that the GJ did indict both parents on criminal charges related to JBR's homicide, but the DA, Alex Hunter, could not handle the political pressure and the noteriety of what would have ensued. He was much more comfy with a glass of wine and his hot tub, you know. So, he didn't prosecute anyone.

Basically, though, back then, he may have had a viable argument against prosecution. Chances are, things would have boiled down to a " he said" " she said" non- prosecutable case.
The forensics were/ are weak, the evidence has always been co-mingled and contaminated among the innocent and the guilty in the household.
Plus, conventional wisdom at that time was that Patsy Ramsey probably wouldn't live long enough for a trial ( her ovarian cancer).

He blew it. In my opinion, he shares some of the burden of not bringing justice while it could be brought.
There's something to be said for trying a case while the perp. is alive. ( an obvious TIC comment).

JMO, of course.
Maria

 

[Roy23]

I haven't read the other replies to the initial question, but my firmly held view is that the GJ did indict both parents on criminal charges related to JBR's homicide, but the DA, Alex Hunter, could not handle the political pressure and the noteriety of what would have ensued. He was much more comfy with a glass of wine and his hot tub, you know. So, he didn't prosecute anyone.

Basically, though, back then, he may have had a viable argument against prosecution. Chances are, things would have boiled down to a " he said" " she said" non- prosecutable case.
The forensics were/ are weak, the evidence has always been co-mingled and contaminated among the innocent and the guilty in the household.
Plus, conventional wisdom at that time was that Patsy Ramsey probably wouldn't live long enough for a trial ( her ovarian cancer).

He blew it. In my opinion, he shares some of the burden of not bringing justice while it could be brought.
There's something to be said for trying a case while the perp. is alive. ( an obvious TIC comment).

JMO, of course.
Maria

SeekingJana,

Thanks for responding. I think you should read the whole thread though. I am not familiar with your postings but I guess you are RDI. Let me try and change your mind on a couple of things. I can agree that Hunter seems like a wine sipping dude. And yeah, you admit it is a non conviction case with forensics still being done and some even with possible contamination. Had they indicted anyhow and lost, any change in the case if RDI would be over. They cannot be prosecuted twice and quite frankly no one would still possibly be investigating it now. Especially if they felt RDI due to Double Jeopardy. That doesn't sound good does it?

Also, per Superdave, Henry Lee and Barry Scheck advised Alex Hunter not to indict at this time. Shouldn't that mean something? I mean RDI can argue that the DNA is all transfered but we all certainly have to admit that all the new findings is certainly significant to what they knew when the GJ was meeting. Some of it was not even submitted at this time from what I read.

I fear that if they would have indicted, they would not keep investigating for us to have even a small chance at justice. Am I swaying you just a little? I think we have to respect the GJ decision along with Scheck and Lee. We still have hope.

 

[Ravyn]

But why have a GJ if work was still being done on the case wouldn't it make more sense to wait til everything was done why push it to soon....Or this is what I'm getting in this thread...So what was the rush to mess up the case even more or have a Double Jeopardy...

 

[Sophie]

This is a magnificent thread. Gutted to be too busy to reply to pretty much everyone since there's so much good stuff to discuss. Maybe at the weekend?....


Dave refers to a juror's quote and I can't find the quote he means from his postings (sorry Dave, I read your posts carefully and religiously but I'm up to me armpits in work and snotty babies this week). Anyway, I may be repeating a quote already given by Dave in which case apologies (although it confirms that this quote was out there): 'The whole Ramsey grand jury was sickeningly political from start to finish.'

This was discussed at length at the time.

 

[Sophie]

But why have a GJ if work was still being done on the case wouldn't it make more sense to wait til everything was done why push it to soon....Or this is what I'm getting in this thread...So what was the rush to mess up the case even more or have a Double Jeopardy...

Hi Ravyn,

Hope you are well, honeyxx

Fear of failing to get a conviction and double jeopardy attaching appears to have informed pretty much everything AH did from day one of this case. Ironically, a GJ being set up early, with the power to compel witnesses etc, might have resulted in a much stronger case and therefore a much stronger chance of indictment.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

And of course the GJ had to deal with the pesky little problem of zero evidence that unequivocally linked either PR or JR to the crime.

 

[Tadpole12]

Fear of failing to get a conviction and double jeopardy attaching appears to have informed pretty much everything AH did from day one of this case. Ironically, a GJ being set up early, with the power to compel witnesses etc, might have resulted in a much stronger case and therefore a much stronger chance of indictment.

Hi Sophie. WB

It would have been career suicide.

 

[BBB167893]

Why do you own duct tape that isn't gray?

A few different reasons, really. Sometimes it's all there is to buy. Sometimes I need to patch something dark and I don't want it to stand out too much. Most of the time, I don't really think about it. I just get it.

 

[BBB167893]

Basically, though, back then, he may have had a viable argument against prosecution. Chances are, things would have boiled down to a " he said" " she said" non- prosecutable case.
The forensics were/ are weak, the evidence has always been co-mingled and contaminated among the innocent and the guilty in the household.

VERY good. This brings up my next point, one which is vital yet seems to have gone under the radar. Under the law, if two or more people are involved in a crime, the prosecution has to decide who to charge with what specific crime. One may be the killer, the other(s) merely accomplice to it. And that's the problem here: no one was ever able to tell which parent was the killer and which one merely went along. If you tried, it's one's word against the other. This is known as the "cross-fingerpointing defense." It's usually overcome by arresting both parties, throwing them in jail for a while and seeing which one will crack first and turn on the other.

Problem here is, that's EXACTLY what the police WANTED to do! It's exactly what the FBI, the "Dream Team" guys TOLD them to do! They were convinced that PR would crack.

Anyone want to take a guess as to who shot that idea down? No need: it was Alex Hunter. It was too "police state-ish" for him.

Plus, conventional wisdom at that time was that Patsy Ramsey probably wouldn't live long enough for a trial ( her ovarian cancer).

That was the thinking on ALL sides, just for the record.

 

[madeleine]

Yeah I always wondered why they didn't try to charge them with crime scene staging,tampering,etc,would have been wiser to start there.
Hoping that PR would crack was a huge risk,even kinda silly.IMO

 

[BBB167893]

Also, per Superdave, Henry Lee and Barry Scheck advised Alex Hunter not to indict at this time. Shouldn't that mean something?

I think I'd better come clean about something, Roy. I wasn't completely forward with you. I left out an important thing. Yes, I mentioned how Henry Lee instructed Hunter not to indict. But that was only part of it. He ALSO said that they had more than enough to charge the Rs with lesser crimes, like evidence tampering and giving false statements, but that they couldn't because CO law says you can't bring lesser charges if a murder charge is still open.

 

[DeeDee249]

He described it as black. And the 2nd ligature is freshly cut.

You've got such a spin going on I can barely read this stuff.

I don't care how he described it. All you have to do is look at the photo. It's gray. Maybe the reverse is black, but the tape photographed laying on the white blanket in situ" on the wineceller floor is gray/silver.

 

[BBB167893]

And of course the GJ had to deal with the pesky little problem of zero evidence that unequivocally linked either PR or JR to the crime.

Truth be told, HOTYH, you're right, in a manner of speaking. In fact, the way you phrased that says it all.

There was PLENTY of evidence that showed they did it. But there wasn't any that said which ONE of them did it.

 

[DeeDee249]

Here's the white blanket with the tape:

http://www.acandyrose.com/149blanket.jpg