GUILTY WI - Apple River multiple stabbing; one teen dead, 4 other people hurt; 52 year old man arrested, July 2022

[Mack the Knife]

I don't really have an opinion on NM's legal culpability here. I think a lot of the potential actual guilt hinges on who was the first to get physical--did NM strike MS as claimed? I don't know if the prosecution has or will be able to prove that.

Morally though, I think all parties carry some fault.

I hold adults (NM and the Carlson group) more responsible than teenagers (Isaac's group) for continuing the argument and not walking away. I hold groups (the Carlson group and Isaac's group) more responsible than individuals for controlling the tone of an argument and not making the situation feel unsafe.

They all had several opportunities to calm things down and end it, but every party chose to escalate things at every point. The only time I saw anyone look like they were attempting to de-escalate was when Tony got between NM and the Carlson group, and by that point it was too late: NM had already cut Rhyley and stabbed AJ.

 

[BrownRice]

I've seen the video. This case is NOT about who said what AFTER the fact. It was all caught on video and at least, IMO, it comes down to a fairly large group of loud, drunk, aggressive older teens/young adults antagonizing, threatening and then attacking an older man who was all alone. Absolutely nothing wrong with carrying a knife and nothing wrong with using it in self defense. He was surrounded, pushed down, was practically being drowned and he was obviously scared.

I have boys and girls and those girls were looking for trouble. They wanted those boys to stick up for them. The girl that was screaming in his face? She caused this whole thing. All of this could have and should have been avoided. Drunk teens do stupid things, and this was the dumbest thing they could have ever done. They thought they were going to just attack some random guy and get away with it because they had youth, strength and numbers on their side and this guy was all alone and in a bathing suit, seemingly unarmed. They guess wrong.

I feel horrible for the kid who died's family, but honestly, murder? No. This is self-defense. Clear as the day is long. IMO.

I somewhat agree with you. I can’t say the girl “caused this” though. Lots of blame to go around. The teens were drunk and very dumb. And he was a fool to engage them.

 

[TTF14]

I don't really have an opinion on NM's legal culpability here. I think a lot of the potential actual guilt hinges on who was the first to get physical--did NM strike MS as claimed? I don't know if the prosecution has or will be able to prove that.

Morally though, I think all parties carry some fault.

I hold adults (NM and the Carlson group) more responsible than teenagers (Isaac's group) for continuing the argument and not walking away. I hold groups (the Carlson group and Isaac's group) more responsible than individuals for controlling the tone of an argument and not making the situation feel unsafe.

They all had several opportunities to calm things down and end it, but every party chose to escalate things at every point. The only time I saw anyone look like they were attempting to de-escalate was when Tony got between NM and the Carlson group, and by that point it was too late: NM had already cut Rhyley and stabbed AJ.

Agree. If I were on that jury, I wouldn't be able to convict him of first degree murder. And I don't think he meant to kill anybody. It would be really difficult and would have to really come down to what exactly the law says about it (which, obviously it always does, but keeping feelings out of it would be difficult for me in this case).

 

[nodamselindistress]

Did anyone watch testimony of the guy who recorded it all? He basically said he started videoing it to watch "the old guy" get taken down. I think that says alot.

 

[TTF14]

Did anyone watch testimony of the guy who recorded it all? He basically said he started videoing it to watch "the old guy" get taken down. I think that says alot.

I didn't see that. Was it today? What did he look like (or his name if you remember)?

 

[nodamselindistress]

I didn't see that. Was it today? What did he look like (or his name if you remember)?

No it was last week, early on. I believe his name was Jawaan Cockfield (not sure about that spelling).

 

[KMouse]

Great post Kakidoll! Totally agree.

There is just no way he punched MC and they all cite that as their reasons for attacking him. If a 250 lb man punches a woman in the face, it is going to be obvious. And no doubt in my mind she would take a picture and send to all her friends for sympathy, not delete it like she says she did. Just not buying it.

How many of them had social media apps on their phones. There is no way that they weren't taking photos & snaps and sending/posting them. I call bull on the face punch that was supposedly heard over and above all the ruckus. If there was a photo the parents would have kept a copy and you know that the girl would have sent it to her friends. It would have been given to the police.

 

[Chimera]

No it was last week, early on. I believe his name was Jawaan Cockfield (not sure about that spelling).

I believe the surname spelling is correct. ^^^

The first may be 'Juwaan' ?
Imo.
Eta : 'Nope' to the first name.

Jawahn Cockfield, who filmed deadly Apple River encounter, testifies in Nicolae Miu trial (Part 3)

Jawahn Cockfield, Isaac Schuman's friend and the young man who filmed the altercation, became emotional on the stand while viewing the portion of the video showing the aftermath of the Apple River stabbings. This is the third part of the video.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[TTF14]

I believe the surname spelling is correct. ^^^
The first may be 'Juwaan' ?
Imo.

Thank you both. @nodamselindistress I will look for it.

 

[Kakidoll]

Did anyone watch testimony of the guy who recorded it all? He basically said he started videoing it to watch "the old guy" get taken down. I think that says alot.

Yep, he was the first i saw and they caught him in lies.. then it came out he was the one that was yelling and instigating and the most aggressive, from what i saw. Honestly, they need charges too, IMO.

 

[TTF14]

Yep, he was the first i saw and they caught him in lies.. then it came out he was the one that was yelling and instigating and the most aggressive, from what i saw. Honestly, they need charges too, IMO.

Was it the African American kid with the longish hair?

 

[BrownRice]

Did anyone watch testimony of the guy who recorded it all? He basically said he started videoing it to watch "the old guy" get taken down. I think that says a lot

Yep, he was the first i saw and they caught him in lies.. then it came out he was the one that was yelling and instigating and the most aggressive, from what i saw. Honestly, they need charges too, IMO.

But what would be the charge? He was being a jerk?

Sadly, this is our new generation. Do you see online when someone is having a mental breakdown or experiencing some hardship (often being a victim) and all the people who have their phones out recording but not helping? Everyone is desensitized and just wants the most likes with their videos.

I would be so disappointed if these were one of my sons. I can only hope they learned from this and will not behave in such stupid behavior in the future

 

[TTF14]

But what would be the charge? He was being a jerk?

Sadly, this is our new generation. Do you see online when someone is having a mental breakdown or experiencing some hardship (often being a victim) and all the people who have their phones out recording but not helping? Everyone is desensitized and just wants the most likes with their videos.

I would be so disappointed if these were one of my sons. I can only hope they learned from this and will not behave in such stupid behavior in the future

I'd be heartbroken if my son behaved the way these teens did .

 

[Kakidoll]

Was it the African American kid with the longish hair?

Yes. When i saw his testimony i wasn't aware he was the one speaking and encouraging the behavior. And kept filming. I thought Issaac, the one who died was the aggressor, doesn't seem so though.

Yes, as a parent, i'd be mortified if my kids were the ones involved. But from watching the trial, all of them are playing total victim, yet their attitudes def. show thru in some of the defense questions. I guess they aren't as good of actors as they seem to think the are. Again, MOO.

 

[TTF14]

Yes. When i saw his testimony i wasn't aware he was the one speaking and encouraging the behavior. And kept filming. I thought Issaac, the one who died was the aggressor, doesn't seem so though.

Yes, as a parent, i'd be mortified if my kids were the ones involved. But from watching the trial, all of them are playing total victim, yet their attitudes def. show thru in some of the defense questions. I guess they aren't as good of actors as they seem to think the are. Again, MOO.

Yes, agree. And I did see his testimony, but I want to go watch it again.

These intoxicated kids bullied this man. It's what started it all. The jury will have to decide if how he "finished" it was justified.

I know how I'd vote.

 

[mickey2942]

Yes. When i saw his testimony i wasn't aware he was the one speaking and encouraging the behavior. And kept filming. I thought Issaac, the one who died was the aggressor, doesn't seem so though.

Yes, as a parent, i'd be mortified if my kids were the ones involved. But from watching the trial, all of them are playing total victim, yet their attitudes def. show thru in some of the defense questions. I guess they aren't as good of actors as they seem to think the are. Again, MOO.

Yes, that was my initial impression when I heard the testimony of one of the young men. He really wasn't the greatest defense witness.

I honestly can't imagine one of my "kids" acting this way, children learn what they are taught at home. They don't bother others or start fights. There are certain people who seem to always be involved in drama. No matter what...they are the same ones who were in trouble in school. They don't change.

 

[ConcernedVA]

I was watching the stills from the young man today in the pink/blue shorts who was "feeling weird" because he didn't like the way NM looked. Something about the capering dances and joyful looks on these kid's faces looked familiar to me in a gross way. It took me all day to realize what it was.

They looked like they were about to lynch NM. I saw a historic photo of a lynching awhile ago and the white crowd had looks on their faces like these kids. I'm not saying they were going to do that, but it had the same dangerous group think spirit.

 

[AnyNameIWish]

I'd be heartbroken if my son behaved the way these teens did .

100%. And horrified.
I've actually been on a road trip and have shared this case with my younger teen. This IS absolutely behavior that can get you killed, by a gun or otherwise. The "children" claiming they were scared and were asking for help is a terrible assertion that just doesn't hold water.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

If the prosecution rests Monday or Tuesday , I have to say, the prosecuting attorneys did not do a stellar job so far. They let a lot slide, the objection saying "waste of time"(is that a thing?)seemed odd to me, their witnesses had many many holes/discrepancies/inability to stick to a version... many of these witnesses seem to have tried to get their version to coincide with the video, which isn't helpful.

We've heard from so many witnesses, and to me, many of them aren't good historians. (I understand the Spanish speaking witnesses were for the defence and I include their cross examination, too.) The Carlson group claim they heard cries for help, but I saw no evidence the teens were desperate for anything other than more backup to....do what? Mock and belittle?

Moo.

One thing we do know, they weren't looking for backup so they could stab 5 people.

I don't think NM is walking out a free man. JMOO

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I was watching the stills from the young man today in the pink/blue shorts who was "feeling weird" because he didn't like the way NM looked. Something about the capering dances and joyful looks on these kid's faces looked familiar to me in a gross way. It took me all day to realize what it was.

They looked like they were about to lynch NM. I saw a historic photo of a lynching awhile ago and the white crowd had looks on their faces like these kids. I'm not saying they were going to do that, but it had the same dangerous group think spirit.

Which photo was that? TIA