Identified! WI - Clinton, 'River Guy' WhtMale 1207UMWI, 17-20, 'Venom' TShirt, Nov'95 - Carl Junior Isaacs

[Alleykins]

That's what they meant and that the guy who was seen (River Guy) could be a suspect for some murders in the area. I was initially super confused and had to edit my reply heavily.

I was confused at first, too. But then I remembered they weren't really sure the guy the people talked to was the one who turned up deceased, they were just in the same vicinity. So it is possible alive River Guy didn't turn out to be deceased River Guy.

ETA: It would interesting to find out if anyone who talked to River Guy recognized him as Carl from his pictures. I think I would have been able to tell one way or another if I'd spoken to River Guy, I have a memory for faces.

 

[Quoththeraven]

I think I see what you're saying, and why folks might be confused.
You're saying the guy people saw and talked to alive, River Guy, not was the John Doe, who turned out to be Carl. Am I following?

Exactly. The River Guy and Carl Isaacs, Jr. are not the same person. The River Guy is still alive

 

[Springrain]

Exactly. The River Guy and Carl Isaacs, Jr. are not the same person. The River Guy is still alive

Can I ask if you have a suspect for River Guy in mind to say that with such certainty? It has been 27 years, which is why I'm curious.

 

[Quoththeraven]

Can I ask if you have a suspect for River Guy in mind to say that with such certainty? It has been 27 years, which is why I'm curious.

Yes, we do. He's in his late 50's. This is him, in 1982


This is him, in 1994.

 

[Curious_in_NC]

Died	c. May or June of 1995 (aged 21)

His death was right around the time of two concerts at Alpine Valley Music Theatre near where Barbara Nelson and other unsolved murder victims were found.​

Jun 10, 1995 Jimmy Buffett Setlists Alpine Valley Music Theatre East Troy, Wisconsin, United States Show Duplicates for Jun 10, 1995 May 27, 1995 Boston Alpine Valley Music Theatre East Troy, Wisconsin, United States

I think most of us agree that River Guy is not Isaccs. River Guy may indeed resemble one the suspects in one or more local murders. But I don't see the connection between Isaccs and those two concerts. Venom is a thrash/metal band. I don't think a Venom fan would be much interested in going to Jimmy Buffet or Boston concerts.

 

[Quoththeraven]

I think most of us agree that River Guy is not Isaccs. River Guy may indeed resemble one the suspects in one or more local murders. But I don't see the connection between Isaccs and those two concerts. Venom is a thrash/metal band. I don't think a Venom fan would be much interested in going to Jimmy Buffet or Boston concerts.

I suppose I'd have to agree that a Venom fan wouldn't go to a Buffet or Boston concert. Myself, I like all genres of music, country, classical, rock, etc. and wearing a shirt of a certain group wouldn't limit me to listening to just that type of music.

 

[MarziPanda]

View attachment 359100View attachment 359101View attachment 359106

Of course the DNA from the father matched the skeleton. That doesn't make him the River Guy. I see no resemblance between the two. Even the part in the hair is different.

"It was commonly believed by those close to the case that River Guy and John Clinton Doe were the same person. However, this hypothesis was challenged by the later forensic estimations based on body decomposition rates that JCD may have died later than originally determined, as late as May, 1995. As such this new range of the possible time of death (as late as the spring of 1995) did not correspond as closely with the date of "River Guy" sightings." Wiki

You probably should have been clearer in your original post. The threat title even says 'River Guy' assuming that River Guy and the Doe found later was the same person. If you say 'River Guy' in this thread a whole load of people are going to assume you mean the deceased doe, which we now know was Isaacs.

Personally I still think Isaacs and 'River Guy' look similar enough that they could be the same person. Add stubble to the picture of Isaacs (which he likely would have had if he absconded prison without shaving equipment) and they look pretty similar. And he'd look older. Are they definitely the same person, no. Could they be? Yeah.

 

[MadMcGoo]

I didn’t realize a name had been released. Glad he’s got his name back.

Rest peacefully now Carl.

 

[Quoththeraven]

You probably should have been clearer in your original post. The threat title even says 'River Guy' assuming that River Guy and the Doe found later was the same person. If you say 'River Guy' in this thread a whole load of people are going to assume you mean the deceased doe, which we now know was Isaacs.

Personally I still think Isaacs and 'River Guy' look similar enough that they could be the same person. Add stubble to the picture of Isaacs (which he likely would have had if he absconded prison without shaving equipment) and they look pretty similar. And he'd look older. Are they definitely the same person, no. Could they be? Yeah.

I agree, I should have been clearer. I just assumed that everyone had kept up on developments in the case and I wrote from that perspective. I think those close to the case made the facts to fit the narrative by comparing a guy who parted his hair in the middle and seen running around in the water in 1994 with a guy who parted his hair on the side and found dead on the land in 1995.

"It was commonly believed by those close to the case that River Guy and John Clinton Doe were the same person. However, this hypothesis was challenged by the later forensic estimations based on body decomposition rates that JCD may have died later than originally determined, as late as May, 1995. As such this new range of the possible time of death (as late as the spring of 1995) did not correspond as closely with the date of "River Guy" sightings." Wiki​

 

[carbuff]

The only "case" we were following in this thread in the "Unidentified" forum is the identity of John Clinton Doe. You might get more input and interest if you started a thread for River Guy and the murders in the Cold Cases area.

 

[Quoththeraven]

The only "case" we were following in this thread in the "Unidentified" forum is the identity of John Clinton Doe. You might get more input and interest if you started a thread for River Guy and the murders in the Cold Cases area.

That would work now that we know the River Guy and Isaacs aren't the same person.

 

[Dreacol23]

Was junior his middle name? Just wondering because I’ve never seen it as a middle name

 

[Quoththeraven]

Was junior his middle name? Just wondering because I’ve never seen it as a middle name

Correct. Carl Junior Isaacs, Jr.

 

[coco]

I know Carls father passed away, I believe in 2005. Does anyone know if his mother is still living?

 

[iamshadow21]

I know Carls father passed away, I believe in 2005. Does anyone know if his mother is still living?

I suspect if she was, they wouldn't have had to exhume his father for confirmation of ID. If she was cremated and her ashes scattered, they wouldn't have been able to use her remains. But she may be alive and chose not to give her DNA for some reason. I don't know the family situation. In the end, his father's DNA was obtained, and he got his name back, so that's all that matters.

 

[dotr]

2022