scriptgirl
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that 16 year old was never seen again?
WI WI - Evelyn Hartley, 15, La Crosse, 24 Oct 1953
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Hi everyone. I found this site because of the Morgan Ingram case, and have just come across this post today. I haven't had time to read through all of the thread, but I feel compelled to post. I don't have any information to add, but want to express how much I hope this mystery is solved.
When I was 17, a man forced his way into the home I was babysitting in, while the children were sleeping (thank God). He strangled me when I screamed, then forced me outside the home into a neighbor's back yard and raped me. I had happened to be talking on the phone at the time, and my boyfriend heard me scream, called my parents (because he was out of state) and they called the police. Luckily the rapist heard the sirens approaching and ran before he could hurt me further. He was never caught, and I guess that means I actually have my own cold case on my hands. I'm not prepared to reopen this wound for myself, but Evelyn's story hits home for me. My story very well could have ended up just like hers.
I'm not 100% sure of all the rules of the site, so I want to add that none of the above information has been verified by websleuths.
When I was 17, a man forced his way into the home I was babysitting in, while the children were sleeping (thank God). He strangled me when I screamed, then forced me outside the home into a neighbor's back yard and raped me. I had happened to be talking on the phone at the time, and my boyfriend heard me scream, called my parents (because he was out of state) and they called the police. Luckily the rapist heard the sirens approaching and ran before he could hurt me further. He was never caught, and I guess that means I actually have my own cold case on my hands. I'm not prepared to reopen this wound for myself, but Evelyn's story hits home for me. My story very well could have ended up just like hers.
I'm not 100% sure of all the rules of the site, so I want to add that none of the above information has been verified by websleuths.
Claudette
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ahmommy, thank you for sharing your story with us, I am so sorry you had to go through that. It must have been absolutely terrifying. It is almost a mirror of Evelyn's experience. If you feel up to it please continue to read on her case and offer any thoughts you may have, you could be the point of view the case needs.
Robin Hood
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I guess the young person was just seen with the 25 year old and not investigated, that or just not taken any further.
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Ahmommy, thanks for sharing.
Re. Evelyn - I don't understand why naming already convicted sex offenders (like the 25 year old) was not done. They named Bernard so why not this bloke ? If it did nothing else but make folk aware how dangerous these people were it would have served a purpose.
I'm happy to share any insight I have. I'm working my way through this thread and associated links in my free time. I'm currently up to page 12. I'd like to get all the way through it before I chime in. Hopefully in the next day or so.
Okay, I finally made it through all of the posts, although I have not watched the youtube videos. I’ve read some of the newspaper articles linked, but not all.
There are a LOT of thoughts running through my head right now, so bear with me. First I’m going to run through my gut feelings about what happened. Keep in mind that this is through the filter of my personal experience, so it’s not exactly unbiased. This is going to be long, so I apologize in advance.
I think that the person(s) involved were on the prowl, looking for someone to sexually assault. I don’t think robbery was the motive. I don’t think Evelyn was necessarily targeted specifically (as in they knew her, knew where she was going to be, and went after her). I do think there were two people involved. Most likely both male, but I don’t think we can rule out the possibility that one was female. I find it highly unlikely that she was targeted by two females (this hasn’t been proposed as far as I can tell, just putting it out there).
My understanding is that there was a large window in the back of the house with curtains open (though there’s at least one conflicting report that the curtains were closed). The window looked into the main living area of the home, where Evelyn was supposedly studying. Evidence suggests that the main confrontation inside the house took place in this room. With lights on inside and darkness outside, Evelyn would have been easily visible from outside, while at the same time being unable to see anything through the window except reflection. She was young and attractive, tall and thin. I imagine she would have caught the attention of someone prowling through back yards with mischief in mind.
I see two feasible scenarios for entrance into the home. They could have entered through the basement window, or through the front door (having knocked and Evelyn answered). Based on the fact that there were pry marks on another window of the home, I don’t believe their initial idea was to try knocking on the door. Obviously they thought of windows first, which would have led them to find the unlocked basement window. My understanding is that Dr. Rasmussen said that the window had mistakenly been left unlocked (or even ajar?) after he had opened it while painting in the basement.
Scenario 1 - Perhaps after they unsuccessfully tried to pry open a window, they (he? she? – I think he, if only because of the shoe prints, but also for many other reasons) decided to try to simply knock on the front door. This was a small town in the 1950s. All indications are that this type of crime was unheard of in the area, so it certainly was not anticipated. It’s possible that Evelyn would have answered a knock at the door, thinking it was a neighbor. Since it wasn’t her home, she wouldn’t have expected to recognize someone coming to visit. This was also before the age of cell phones, so it was more acceptable for someone to arrive unannounced. She may have opened the door expecting to inform them that the Rasmussens weren’t home, only to be overwhelmed when the person at the door pushed their way into the house (since there was some question as to why she was wearing shoes inside the home, it’s understandable that she would put shoes on to answer the door). Because the front entry is now blocked, she retreats into the main living area and a fight ensues. She loses a shoe and her glasses (she doesn’t simply flee out the other door because she fears for the safety of the baby). It may be clear to Evelyn at this point (through actions or speech) that the intent is rape. In my mind, only one person is in the house with her, another is outside as lookout. Evelyn may have told the assailant at this point that she was on her menstrual cycle in hopes of turning them away. Since there was no evidence of blood inside the home (to my knowledge), I don’t believe she was raped in the home. I think there would at least have been menstrual blood found, unless they were smart enough to lay down a towel or other protection. From all accounts, I find that doubtful. This was a messy crime. At this point, either Evelyn retreats to the basement (thinking all other exits are blocked) or is taken there. Does anyone know what kind of door was between the basement and the main part of the house? Could you lock it from inside the home, or inside the basement? My belief is that this door was not locked from either direction, but I don’t know that for sure. I say that because later her father came in through the basement window and was able to get into the main part of the house, and I never saw any mention of a locked door. It’s possible, though, that IF the door was able to be locked from inside the basement, Evelyn escaped to the basement and locked the door. She either lost her other shoe on the way down, or took it off so she could move faster. Then fearing for the safety of the baby, she began looking for another way out and found the window and the ladder and tried to escape that way and was intercepted by the lookout. The other option is that when the assailant learned that she was on her menstrual cycle, he was disgusted, gave up on the idea of rape, and put (pushed?) her in the basement to buy himself some time. He didn’t expect her to be able to escape quickly, only to find as he left the house that she was coming out through the window. This particular scenario makes me really sad because it’s possible if she had not tried to escape, she might have been okay. I believe that fear for her life (feeling trapped in the basement) or fear for the baby would have driven her to act instead of stay.
Scenario 2 – The assailant went in through the basement window. I feel like this scenario has been discussed at length, so I won’t go into more detail. This is getting long enough as it is. Just one thought worth mentioning – it’s possible that they knocked at the door and did not get a response, then resorted to entering through the basement window. In this case, Evelyn may have been on the alert after hearing a knock and not answering and may have heard a noise in the basement that otherwise would have been stealthy enough to go unnoticed.
Some questions, possible holes in my theory – I can’t remember where the muddy shoe prints were found in the home. Were they in the living room or the basement? If in the basement, then my scenario 1 can’t be true, at least not in its entirety. Also, does anyone know if there would have been a phone located in the basement? My theory assumes that she had no way to make contact with anyone once she was in the basement.
Another thought supporting my theory – at one point someone said that a red button and red thread were found on or near the basement window, although the thread blew away before it could be collected. This supports the idea of Evelyn going out through the basement window one way or the other (as she was wearing red pants). This was posted early on in this thread, but I haven’t gone back to find the link.
There are a LOT of thoughts running through my head right now, so bear with me. First I’m going to run through my gut feelings about what happened. Keep in mind that this is through the filter of my personal experience, so it’s not exactly unbiased. This is going to be long, so I apologize in advance.
I think that the person(s) involved were on the prowl, looking for someone to sexually assault. I don’t think robbery was the motive. I don’t think Evelyn was necessarily targeted specifically (as in they knew her, knew where she was going to be, and went after her). I do think there were two people involved. Most likely both male, but I don’t think we can rule out the possibility that one was female. I find it highly unlikely that she was targeted by two females (this hasn’t been proposed as far as I can tell, just putting it out there).
My understanding is that there was a large window in the back of the house with curtains open (though there’s at least one conflicting report that the curtains were closed). The window looked into the main living area of the home, where Evelyn was supposedly studying. Evidence suggests that the main confrontation inside the house took place in this room. With lights on inside and darkness outside, Evelyn would have been easily visible from outside, while at the same time being unable to see anything through the window except reflection. She was young and attractive, tall and thin. I imagine she would have caught the attention of someone prowling through back yards with mischief in mind.
I see two feasible scenarios for entrance into the home. They could have entered through the basement window, or through the front door (having knocked and Evelyn answered). Based on the fact that there were pry marks on another window of the home, I don’t believe their initial idea was to try knocking on the door. Obviously they thought of windows first, which would have led them to find the unlocked basement window. My understanding is that Dr. Rasmussen said that the window had mistakenly been left unlocked (or even ajar?) after he had opened it while painting in the basement.
Scenario 1 - Perhaps after they unsuccessfully tried to pry open a window, they (he? she? – I think he, if only because of the shoe prints, but also for many other reasons) decided to try to simply knock on the front door. This was a small town in the 1950s. All indications are that this type of crime was unheard of in the area, so it certainly was not anticipated. It’s possible that Evelyn would have answered a knock at the door, thinking it was a neighbor. Since it wasn’t her home, she wouldn’t have expected to recognize someone coming to visit. This was also before the age of cell phones, so it was more acceptable for someone to arrive unannounced. She may have opened the door expecting to inform them that the Rasmussens weren’t home, only to be overwhelmed when the person at the door pushed their way into the house (since there was some question as to why she was wearing shoes inside the home, it’s understandable that she would put shoes on to answer the door). Because the front entry is now blocked, she retreats into the main living area and a fight ensues. She loses a shoe and her glasses (she doesn’t simply flee out the other door because she fears for the safety of the baby). It may be clear to Evelyn at this point (through actions or speech) that the intent is rape. In my mind, only one person is in the house with her, another is outside as lookout. Evelyn may have told the assailant at this point that she was on her menstrual cycle in hopes of turning them away. Since there was no evidence of blood inside the home (to my knowledge), I don’t believe she was raped in the home. I think there would at least have been menstrual blood found, unless they were smart enough to lay down a towel or other protection. From all accounts, I find that doubtful. This was a messy crime. At this point, either Evelyn retreats to the basement (thinking all other exits are blocked) or is taken there. Does anyone know what kind of door was between the basement and the main part of the house? Could you lock it from inside the home, or inside the basement? My belief is that this door was not locked from either direction, but I don’t know that for sure. I say that because later her father came in through the basement window and was able to get into the main part of the house, and I never saw any mention of a locked door. It’s possible, though, that IF the door was able to be locked from inside the basement, Evelyn escaped to the basement and locked the door. She either lost her other shoe on the way down, or took it off so she could move faster. Then fearing for the safety of the baby, she began looking for another way out and found the window and the ladder and tried to escape that way and was intercepted by the lookout. The other option is that when the assailant learned that she was on her menstrual cycle, he was disgusted, gave up on the idea of rape, and put (pushed?) her in the basement to buy himself some time. He didn’t expect her to be able to escape quickly, only to find as he left the house that she was coming out through the window. This particular scenario makes me really sad because it’s possible if she had not tried to escape, she might have been okay. I believe that fear for her life (feeling trapped in the basement) or fear for the baby would have driven her to act instead of stay.
Scenario 2 – The assailant went in through the basement window. I feel like this scenario has been discussed at length, so I won’t go into more detail. This is getting long enough as it is. Just one thought worth mentioning – it’s possible that they knocked at the door and did not get a response, then resorted to entering through the basement window. In this case, Evelyn may have been on the alert after hearing a knock and not answering and may have heard a noise in the basement that otherwise would have been stealthy enough to go unnoticed.
Some questions, possible holes in my theory – I can’t remember where the muddy shoe prints were found in the home. Were they in the living room or the basement? If in the basement, then my scenario 1 can’t be true, at least not in its entirety. Also, does anyone know if there would have been a phone located in the basement? My theory assumes that she had no way to make contact with anyone once she was in the basement.
Another thought supporting my theory – at one point someone said that a red button and red thread were found on or near the basement window, although the thread blew away before it could be collected. This supports the idea of Evelyn going out through the basement window one way or the other (as she was wearing red pants). This was posted early on in this thread, but I haven’t gone back to find the link.
Some insight into the psychology regarding the family’s refusal to provide DNA samples –
Remember that this happened 59 years ago. It’s likely that they gave up hope long ago that her case would ever be solved or that she would ever be found. Unfortunately that position has been supported by the fact that so far it hasn’t been solved, and she hasn’t been found, and most of the people involved are either gone or will be gone soon.
This story is new to many of us, so it all feels exciting. They lived this story for years. This was a very personal and private pain for them, and it was lived out in the newspapers and continues to present itself to them over the years. They probably feel they have no privacy for their grief. They are also likely at peace and could even wish that everyone else would be at peace.
Also, they may believe and feel strongly that the police have the DNA evidence they need in the menstrual pads and other items gathered during the initial investigation.
I personally can’t imagine what life would be like if my personal tragedy were known nationally. If people I didn’t know approached me for information, or with accusations, without any seeking on my part, I don’t know how I would react. Maybe this is the only way they can feel some element of control on their parts, since they have long since given up hope that an answer will be found.
Also, remember that her siblings would be quite old by now. They may not understand the significance of DNA, and their families may be so concerned about their mental health that they won’t push it and are even insulating them from any requests. I don’t know how useful the DNA of a more distant relative would be, like a niece/nephew or even a great-niece/nephew.
Remember that this happened 59 years ago. It’s likely that they gave up hope long ago that her case would ever be solved or that she would ever be found. Unfortunately that position has been supported by the fact that so far it hasn’t been solved, and she hasn’t been found, and most of the people involved are either gone or will be gone soon.
This story is new to many of us, so it all feels exciting. They lived this story for years. This was a very personal and private pain for them, and it was lived out in the newspapers and continues to present itself to them over the years. They probably feel they have no privacy for their grief. They are also likely at peace and could even wish that everyone else would be at peace.
Also, they may believe and feel strongly that the police have the DNA evidence they need in the menstrual pads and other items gathered during the initial investigation.
I personally can’t imagine what life would be like if my personal tragedy were known nationally. If people I didn’t know approached me for information, or with accusations, without any seeking on my part, I don’t know how I would react. Maybe this is the only way they can feel some element of control on their parts, since they have long since given up hope that an answer will be found.
Also, remember that her siblings would be quite old by now. They may not understand the significance of DNA, and their families may be so concerned about their mental health that they won’t push it and are even insulating them from any requests. I don’t know how useful the DNA of a more distant relative would be, like a niece/nephew or even a great-niece/nephew.
A follow-up thought –
My theory is similar to the earlier theory posted by someone who was a descendant of the Rasmussen family (I believe, don’t take my word for that). One notable difference is that I don’t think Evelyn was immediately pursued while exiting through the basement window and/or injured in the legs there. As far as I know, no blood was found inside the basement, only outside. Plus, it would have been fairly easy to stop her from getting out that window if that was the intent. Just grab her legs and pull her back down. I can’t imagine she would have been able to propel herself through that small window and over the well with someone holding on to her. It is possible, though, that they saw her partially out the window and were only able to reach her as she was almost all the way out, and injured her at that time through the window. That could cause the blood to be only outside the home.
My theory is similar to the earlier theory posted by someone who was a descendant of the Rasmussen family (I believe, don’t take my word for that). One notable difference is that I don’t think Evelyn was immediately pursued while exiting through the basement window and/or injured in the legs there. As far as I know, no blood was found inside the basement, only outside. Plus, it would have been fairly easy to stop her from getting out that window if that was the intent. Just grab her legs and pull her back down. I can’t imagine she would have been able to propel herself through that small window and over the well with someone holding on to her. It is possible, though, that they saw her partially out the window and were only able to reach her as she was almost all the way out, and injured her at that time through the window. That could cause the blood to be only outside the home.
Here's the post about the red button and threads. It's from page 4.
Edited to add - in re-reading, I notice that it says, "a button with red threads," not a red button as I remembered. No color for the button was given.
joellegirl
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The mud was on the living room carpet. I am remembering there may have been mud somewhere else,like near the front door(maybe I heard that on one of the You Tube videos). The book "Where's Evelyn " has pics of the mud(some say blood) on the living room carpet, near her glasses and one shoe.
For modern day reference and feasibility of Evelyn being able to fit through the basement window -
She was 5'7" and ~128 lbs IIRC. Her pants were a size 16 in 1953. I am 5'10" and 140 lbs, which I think would be somewhat comparable to her body shape, accounting for a little extra height and a few extra pounds. I wear a size 8 in today's sizes. Not petite, but not big either.
She was 5'7" and ~128 lbs IIRC. Her pants were a size 16 in 1953. I am 5'10" and 140 lbs, which I think would be somewhat comparable to her body shape, accounting for a little extra height and a few extra pounds. I wear a size 8 in today's sizes. Not petite, but not big either.
TheBlackPumpkin
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I'm sorry if this has been discussed. But did anything ever come of the two witnesses who claimed in 1989 on a news program that a farmer had been the owner of the jacket that was found? I watched it in YouTube and the men claim the farmer wanted to go into town for a woman and left around 630 the night evelyn disappeared? Supposedly they never saw the farmer wearing the jacket or tennis shoes after that night? Was this ever checked out by LE?
wildchild1961
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punklove
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The witness saw a man and a woman - he assumed the woman had too much to drink and was being helped home by the man. This still could fit your theory since its possible the wife was sent to get the car.
They didnt leave via the basement window - police believe she went through the door.
Your theory explains something Ive always had a hard time understanding - WHY did she go anywhere near the basement when fleeing the attacker? It always seemed a bit dumb to me because she would be putting herself in a room whos only exit wasnt all that easy to get out of?
Its quite possible she attempted to go to the basement because it was the only place she felt she could get to quickly - OR there could have been someone in the basement that presented himself once he heard the struggle between Evelyn and whomever.
That entire area was still being developed at the time so its certainly possible a woman came to the door to ask to borrow something/use the phone and gained entry that way. Once inside that person could have attempted to attack Evelyn (and Evelyn losing that her shoe during the attack) and Evelyn was able to get away from the person and run down the hallway and in her attempt to fllee Evelyn could have opened the basement door and found someone else there - naturally she would have struggled and kicked that person which would explain the other shoe being at the bottom of the stairs.
punklove
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The front window was huge and allowed anyone to see into the home - Evelyn's father was able to look into the window and see the entire living area. The car was also gone from driveway so it wouldn't have been hard to deduce that she was there alone. Also, Considering how quickly she was attacked after she was left alone its entirely possible that the person was watching the home and actually saw the family leave.
punklove
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It was checked out - the farmer said that he saw the jacket on the road so he stopped and tossed it into the back of his truck and forgot about it (odd since it the disappearance was all over the news and a blood stained jacket certainly should have rang a bell with him). They checked the farmer out but for whatever reason felt he was being honest.
Werent the shoe prints left at the scene military issue? I cant remember.
Witnesses heard screams about 30 minutes after she was dropped off which makes me think the person(s) was watching the home and saw the family leaving without her.
Something I dont get is why they took a dying Evelyn with them? It seems the person(s) were really unprepared for Evelyn to fight back as intensely as she did - Its fairly obvious things didnt go as planned in the home since Evelyn was able to flee the house after being wounded and made it all the way to a neighbors home.
punklove
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He was orphaned at a young age and was raised by his uncle and aunt but something apparently happened to sour them on him - he was listed as adopted on the 1800 censes but then in 1900 he was listed as a servant and "not a son". Later in 1900 he was asked to leave the home and married Augusta Lehrke (Geins mother). She gave birth to Gein's brother shortly after being married.
my_tee_mouse
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In an effort to a) address the question of the size 16 pants and b) bump this up:
http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/hudson-.../3574940?origin=sizechart&tn=Sizeandfit_popup
Evelyn was 15. She probably could still wear girls' pants (I wore size 12 and 14 girls' pants until I was 23!). As we can see from the Nordstrom link, there are still girls' pants in size 16.
http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/hudson-.../3574940?origin=sizechart&tn=Sizeandfit_popup
Evelyn was 15. She probably could still wear girls' pants (I wore size 12 and 14 girls' pants until I was 23!). As we can see from the Nordstrom link, there are still girls' pants in size 16.