Will Casey's story change drastically before trial?What Will her story be?

[sharpar]

I fully expect her to alter details to attempt to explain away details of foresnics
but think the nanny will be weaved into the new tale . Someone else has to offered
up and the nanny is working so far in her mind. I dont believe KC will ever
agree to admitting she is cupable in any way - she is the grieving mother .

I too am pretty sure I read early in the case that sparky or lethal injection was available in FL for death penalty and inmate got the choice .......

 

[sassyantique]

The electric chair is still used in about four states and Florida is one of them. Just 'google' electric chair in florida and you will find the info.

 

[TxRose]

I fully expect her to alter details to attempt to explain away details of foresnics
but think the nanny will be weaved into the new tale . Someone else has to offered
up and the nanny is working so far in her mind. I dont believe KC will ever
agree to admitting she is cupable in any way - she is the grieving mother .

I too am pretty sure I read early in the case that sparky or lethal injection was available in FL for death penalty and inmate got the choice .......

I think so too Sharpar. I don't think an insanity defense will fly at all. And switching to an "it was an accident" defense likewise is very risky. LE gave her plenty of time to admit to that and she didn't...so I think that option is not likely to be believed as well. The cold and callous way the body was dumped, and Casey's behavior for the next 30 days will go against that theory. So I think they will continue with the nanny, especially as the person who dumped Caylee on Suburban Drive. I think they will try to argue that the items found with Caylee were at Zani's. If her fingerprints are on anything, they will argue Zani had a key and took it from the house. I also doubt that she will ever admit any wrongdoing on her part.

 

[kline]

I"m not an expert on sociopaths. Everyone said she changed after her breakup with Jesse, and then got even worse with her new partying BFFs. Im' actually starting to lean towards borderline rather than sociopath. And either PTSD over what she did, or lying so much to herself that she really believes Zanny existed. Borderlines can do that.

(My husband's ex is borderline, and she accused him of raping her. I was naturally cautious until she accused ME of sexually abusing her. Which was quite traumatic to me!!!!)

Yeah there is kind of a fuzzy line or a matter of degree between a borderline personality and full blown sociopath(a phrase I might be applying too loosely) but she's pegging the needle in that direction.
But the two definitly share some common baseline characteristics.

 

[kline]

As to a change of venue--
If JB asks for a change of venue, could the prosecution argue that JB didn't want the gag order the State requested, so why is he now asking for a change? Or does one not have anything to do with the other? Seems like his, C's and G's on camera time added to the problem a change of venue is supposed to address.

If I was her attourney I would be lobbying for a change of venue.
Preferably Fantasy Island.

 

[ecs5298]

If I was her attourney I would be lobbying for a change of venue.
Preferably Fantasy Island.

:floorlaugh:

 

[Steely Dan]

If I was her attourney I would be lobbying for a change of venue.
Preferably Fantasy Island.

:rolling::rolling::rolling:

 

[nomoresorrow]

As to a change of venue--
If JB asks for a change of venue, could the prosecution argue that JB didn't want the gag order the State requested, so why is he now asking for a change? Or does one not have anything to do with the other? Seems like his, C's and G's on camera time added to the problem a change of venue is supposed to address.

JMO - I don't think that the prosecution will argue against JB's change of venue request because it eliminates, at least that issue, being used as a basis for an appeal down the road....but JB's opposition to the gag order + as well as his own media appearances/statements + his firm's PR statements will work against possible future appeal claim's that he may make regarding media coverage & exposure. You (JB) can't have your (his) cake (claim public bias due to media exposure) and eat it too (have also made personal appearances on various news outlets, statements to the press, etc,...) again jmo

 

[ThoughtElf]

Yeah there is kind of a fuzzy line or a matter of degree between a borderline personality and full blown sociopath(a phrase I might be applying too loosely) but she's pegging the needle in that direction.
But the two definitly share some common baseline characteristics.

Astute, as usual, Kline.

But, either way, this is a sympathy defense ploy, and not worthy of note in regards to a true insanity plea.

Thoughts?

 

[kline]

Astute, as usual, Kline.

But, either way, this is a sympathy defense ploy, and not worthy of note in regards to a true insanity plea.

Thoughts?

I agree.I dont think an insanity plea is in the works mainly because Casey would never in a million years cooperate ( We will either accept her lies whole cloth or...or... she will hold her breath until she turns blue."Tremble mortals because I am the 'spiteful !")
Though I think pleading guilty and hurling herself on the mercy of the court or diminished capacity would avail her more then trying to plow through with the Nanny non sense.

 

[TxRose]

Astute, as usual, Kline.

But, either way, this is a sympathy defense ploy, and not worthy of note in regards to a true insanity plea.

Thoughts?

Those conditions are personality disorders, not insanity. They don't prevent her from knowing right from wrong at the time the crime was committed. People with those disorders who commit crimes know they are crimes...they just don't care. They are not capable of empathy. The defense will not be able to use a diasgnosis like that to claim Casey is insane. In addition, she has no documented history of insanity or mental disorders - and was examined by court psychiatrists while in jail. They thought her healthy enough to be bonded out. So I think insanity is clearly off the table for her.

It is likely that they would be used as a mitigating circumstance in a penalty phase perhaps. Her dysfunctional family life might also be brought up during that phase too. I might have to give her credit for that one...

 

[TxRose]

I agree.I dont think an insanity plea is in the works mainly because Casey would never in a million years cooperate ( We will either accept her lies whole cloth or...or... she will hold her breath until she turns blue."Tremble mortals because I am the 'spiteful !")
Though I think pleading guilty and hurling herself on the mercy of the court or diminished capacity would avail her more then trying to plow through with the Nanny non sense.

I agree with you Kline. We will have to wait to see what evidence has been gathered from the remains and the dump site....but I have a feeling it will not be good for Casey. I think she would be convicted with the evidence we know right now....much less whatever else they find. Her best bet is to plead guilty and hope to arrange a reduced sentence with the prosecutor. That would save alot of time and money going to trial. I don't think she would agree to that - but she should really consider it...

 

[Tsaver5683]

I just went back and listened to the interview with LA & LE. I "absolutely" think that KC set up the storyline and they are all following along. He is detailing the events of the night of the initial arrest, he goes on to say that CA was out of the house when KC told him she hadn't seen her daughter for a month. So there was no way for CA to know this as she was outside, but he goes on to tell about how CA comes in and asks "what have you done? Who took her?" When KC says she doesn't know where she is and that she was kidnapped, CA says "we could have found her a month ago" How would there already be an established timeline if this was the first time she was hearing that the baby was kidnapped/ missing? IMO I think in order for KC to change her story, she would need to get the rest of the family to make sure theirs are accurate or at least similar. I would imagine that is isn't a coincidence that they all came up with June 9th either.

 

[TxRose]

I just went back and listened to the interview with LA & LE. I "absolutely" think that KC set up the storyline and they are all following along. He is detailing the events of the night of the initial arrest, he goes on to say that CA was out of the house when KC told him she hadn't seen her daughter for a month. So there was no way for CA to know this as she was outside, but he goes on to tell about how CA comes in and asks "what have you done? Who took her?" When KC says she doesn't know where she is and that she was kidnapped, CA says "we could have found her a month ago" How would there already be an established timeline if this was the first time she was hearing that the baby was kidnapped/ missing? IMO I think in order for KC to change her story, she would need to get the rest of the family to make sure theirs are accurate or at least similar. I would imagine that is isn't a coincidence that they all came up with June 9th either.

I hear 'ya TSaver. I think there was a whole lot of talking (and yelling) that went on in that house in between those 911 calls. Much of which I think has been conveniently left out. I am confident that Casey was not bawling her eyes out and lying on the floor when she told Cindy. That is not Casey. Plus - she got on the phone with LE immediately after and was a cold as a cucumber. Cindy is clearly a yeller...and probably spent most of her time doing that. Casey probably sat there all defiant and refusing to give info to her mom. Probably yelling back too. Then you have Lee who seems to approach things in a very methodical and calculating way. When he calmly told Casey what she would be facing, she came up with the story. I have a feeling he then discussed that story with her and how she needed to stick with it and not say anything else. I still can't believe he was allowed to go get her things from Tony's. Did LE know he was going to do that - or did he leave to do it before they came? I can't remember. I bet he went to see what he could find himself WITHOUT the police looking over his shoulder.

 

[wallflower67]

I'm Bi-Polar and have never contemplated killing anyone. it's a weak excuse.

Same here. However, I work in an ER, and we often hold psych patients until beds are available in facilities. Some bipolars can decomponsate beyond belief without meds, and can have psychotic moments.

Scares the heck out of me. I would NEVER go off my meds anyway, but after seeing some of the stuff I've seen, it drives the point home.

Anyone here who works in a psych hospital? I'd like to hear from someone who works with mentally ill patients, just out of curiosity.

 

[TxRose]

Same here. However, I work in an ER, and we often hold psych patients until beds are available in facilities. Some bipolars can decomponsate beyond belief without meds, and can have psychotic moments.

Scares the heck out of me. I would NEVER go off my meds anyway, but after seeing some of the stuff I've seen, it drives the point home.

Anyone here who works in a psych hospital? I'd like to hear from someone who works with mentally ill patients, just out of curiosity.

Sorry - I am not that expert. LOL. But clearly Casey does not come close to being in the same shape as the people you described here. She is not on meds and has no medical history of being bi-polar. You can be sure we would know that if she did. I don't believe there is anything in her history that would suggest she has ever had any kind of "episode" or "break from reality" that you might see in a mentally ill person either.

 

[elfie]

Sorry - I am not that expert. LOL. But clearly Casey does not come close to being in the same shape as the people you described here. She is not on meds and has no medical history of being bi-polar. You can be sure we would know that if she did. I don't believe there is anything in her history that would suggest she has ever had any kind of "episode" or "break from reality" that you might see in a mentally ill person either.

I would urge my fellow WS'rs to add the caveat of "reported" or "confirmed" when discussing Casey's medical history, simply because that information is not public knowledge and it is unlikely that anyone who had physically evaluated her would be discussing this on a board.

 

[TxRose]

I would urge my fellow WS'rs to add the caveat of "reported" or "confirmed" when discussing Casey's medical history, simply because that information is not public knowledge and it is unlikely that anyone who had physically evaluated her would be discussing this on a board.

You are right elfie...I can not say for certain what her medical history is. I stand corrected!

But I will say that common sense tells me that we would have heard it by now if she did. Her family and friends all paint a picture of a girl who appeared happy and healthy. And the court would not have let her out on bail if she was seriously ill. I also thought that I recalled JB saying she had no history of mental illness when they were trying to bail her out the first time. Does anyone else recall that?

 

[Steely Dan]

Those conditions are personality disorders, not insanity. They don't prevent her from knowing right from wrong at the time the crime was committed. People with those disorders who commit crimes know they are crimes...they just don't care. They are not capable of empathy. The defense will not be able to use a diasgnosis like that to claim Casey is insane. In addition, she has no documented history of insanity or mental disorders - and was examined by court psychiatrists while in jail. They thought her healthy enough to be bonded out. So I think insanity is clearly off the table for her.

It is likely that they would be used as a mitigating circumstance in a penalty phase perhaps. Her dysfunctional family life might also be brought up during that phase too. I might have to give her credit for that one...

I don't even know if it would help her during the penalty phase unless it's true that LA is the father of the child.

I hear 'ya TSaver. I think there was a whole lot of talking (and yelling) that went on in that house in between those 911 calls. Much of which I think has been conveniently left out. I am confident that Casey was not bawling her eyes out and lying on the floor when she told Cindy. That is not Casey. Plus - she got on the phone with LE immediately after and was a cold as a cucumber. Cindy is clearly a yeller...and probably spent most of her time doing that. Casey probably sat there all defiant and refusing to give info to her mom. Probably yelling back too. Then you have Lee who seems to approach things in a very methodical and calculating way. When he calmly told Casey what she would be facing, she came up with the story. I have a feeling he then discussed that story with her and how she needed to stick with it and not say anything else. I still can't believe he was allowed to go get her things from Tony's. Did LE know he was going to do that - or did he leave to do it before they came? I can't remember. I bet he went to see what he could find himself WITHOUT the police looking over his shoulder.

I agree with everything there. I wish I could have been a fly on the wall for those conversations.

 

[elfie]

You are right elfie...I can not say for certain what her medical history is. I stand corrected!

But I will say that common sense tells me that we would have heard it by now if she did. Her family and friends all paint a picture of a girl who appeared happy and healthy. And the court would not have let her out on bail if she was seriously ill. I also thought that I recalled JB saying she had no history of mental illness when they were trying to bail her out the first time. Does anyone else recall that?

I seem to recall that also--probably from the first bond hearing, too.