You, the jury

[CathyR]

That was NOT a pubic hair. I don't care what the article said, This is just another example of false information that the RST KNOWS is a lie and has allowed to remain.

What was found was an ANCILLARY hair that WAS IDENTIFIED as being from Patsy Ramsey's forearm.

NONE of the information you posted comes from official sources. It was from Schiller's book.

Quote your source then.

 

[CathyR]

Here is another article that claims too much forensic evidence exists to support an RDI. Or maybe something else? There is an interesting line in that article.
http://www.suite101.com/content/forensic-evidence-in-the-ramsey-case-a87580

 

[joeskidbeck]

Quote your source then.

Cathy, do you not think that if a pubic hair was actually found, that by now we would have heard whether or not it belonged to a Ramsey? Believe me, if one were there and it did NOT belong to a Ramsey, it would have been printed in every newspaper and magazine on the planet. I have also read that the hair was an ancillary hair from Patsy. I can't quote the exact source at this moment, but I will find it.

 

[SunnieRN]

Cathy, number 2 in your post above states, it does not match the Ramseys, and the information is from a Ramsey representative who wanted to remain anonymous. Please excuse the paraphrasing here, but any Ramsey rep, would be shouting it from the rooftops, not slinking around, leaking anonymous information!

 

[DeeDee249]

Quote your source then.

Do your research. That matter has been discussed here for YEARS. Search the threads. There is a LOT of misinformation in this case, which was not clarified or corrected after tests were completed.

 

[DeeDee249]

There is no stature of limitations on murder in any State. Of course, if the guilty party is dead, that is another matter. But even if that is the case, there may be an accomplice who is still alive, and other charges related to the murder (tampering with evidence, etc.) may still be prosecutable.

 

[joeskidbeck]

Sorry to disagree with you, but if Patsy or John or anyone else on the planet had a hand in the horrendous staging that was done to this poor child, then they are guilty, were guilty, and will always be guilty. Colorado law may protect Burke because of his age(and this is if you really believe he did anything at all), but his parents should have been prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

 

[otg]

http://www.statuteoflimitations.net/colorado_statute_of_limitations.htm
.

 

[joeskidbeck]

I joined this forum 5 1/2 years ago, since then I have taken the time to read all of the threads on JonBenet plus the ones from Ramseyville (most of you know who I mean, I HATE to say her name). I have read every rumour, half truth, and flat out lie that has ever been put out there and believe me, there have been hundreds, if not thousands. And you know what the funny part is? Every single one of them was for the sole purpose of taking the public's attention away from the Ramseys and putting it on the intruder. The funniest one of all was the "strange" animal hair found on JonBenet, this while Patsy owned a pair of beaver trimmed boots. Yes, the IDI's will now come here and say that all the rumours and innuendo were RDIs trying to make the Ramseys look guilty, when it's obvious that the Ramseys didn't need any help looking guilty, they did a bang up job all by themselves.

 

[BBB167893]

Wrong. Fibers from Patsy's sweater were found wound into the garrote knot.

Yep. Patsy even tried to account for them. It didn't work.

 

[BBB167893]

He did leave behind a pubic hair it is found on blanket.

Here is article and link


http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682513/The-Body#HumanHair

Hair Evidence
Human Hair

* Hair on Blanket

1. Where Found. "a Caucasian "pubic or auxiliary" hair was found on the blanket covering JonBenet's body. (SMF P 179; PSMF P 179.) The hair does not match that of any Ramsey and has not been sourced. (SMF P 180; PSMF P 180.)" (Carnes 2003:22). According to Rocky Mountain News, "Also, some believe that the most critical piece of evidence seized in the search of the Ramseys' Boulder home may be one that doesn't show up in the 65 pages of documents that were released last week. It's a single pubic hair, found on the blanket that covered JonBenet's ravaged body, where she lay on the bare floor of a small basement room...But that hair doesn't show up on the itemized list of evidence seized at the Ramseys' Boulder home in any way that is clear or obvious."
2. No Match to Ramseys. "It does not match any member of the Ramsey family,'' said a Ramsey representative who requested anonymity. The failure to trace that hair to anyone inside or outside JonBenet's family has also been confirmed by law enforcement sources.
3. Significance. "That single hair, I don't want to understate it, is the single most significant thing I've heard," said Denver attorney Scott Robinson. "It's far more significant than all the talk about melting snow, were there footprints or weren't there, a broken window, can you get in or can't you. But that hair -- a defense lawyer can make a lot out of it. "Because," Robinson added, "if I'm the prosecutor, I have to be really worried as to how I can put together a plausible story ... that explains the existence of a pubic hair not belonging to anyone that they know of, on a blanket covering the child. That hair explains why the delay (in making an arrest), why the caution."
4. This FBI report explains how racial origin can be deduced from a hair sample.



* Hair on Sleeve

1. In one autopsy photo, a dark hair can be seen on the sleeve of JBR's white shirt (photo).
2. This hair appears split, but Internet poster Insight has enlarged this photo and claims it actually is two hairs, the larger appearing to be synthetic (as from a doll) and the smaller appearing to come from Patsy Ramsey. Internet poster Paradox believes Insight is seeing things.


Animal Hair

* Animal Hairs on JBR's Hands. "Dark animal hairs were found on JonBenet's hands that also have not been matched to anything in defendants' home. (SMF P 184; PSMF P 184.)" (Carnes 2003:19).
* Animal Hair on Duct Tape. "Animal hair, alleged to be from a beaver, was found on the duct tape. (SMF P 183; PSMF P 183.) Nothing in defendants' home matches the hair. (SMF P 183; PSMF P 183.)" (Carnes 2003:19).


Who Has Submitted Hair Samples?

1. Family Members. John Ramsey, John Andrew Ramsey, Burke Ramsey
2. Friends.

Those statements were made BEFORE mitochondrial DNA testing linked the hair to PR's arm.

 

[BBB167893]

I beg to differ and this is my source and link.
1. Back to The Body
2. Overview
3. What Ramseys Were Wearing on December 25
4. Fibers in Paint Tray
5. Fibers on Duct Tape
6. Dark Fibers in Genital Area
1. Blue Cotton Fibers?
2. Black Fibers?
3. Sources Ruled Out
7. Brown Cotton Fibers
8. Fibers from Sham & Duvet
9. Green Fibers in Hair.



Back to The Body


Overview

* An extensive general discussion of fiber evidence is available at an FBI site. "When a questioned fiber is compared to fibers from a known fabric source, a determination is made as to whether this fiber could have originated from the known fabric. It is not possible to say positively that a fiber originated from a particular fabric ….[Emphasis added] In order to say that the fiber originated from the item of clothing, the clothing either had to be the only fabric of its type ever produced or still remaining on earth, or the transfer of fibers was directly observed. Since neither of these situations is likely to occur or be known, fiber examiners will conclude that the fibers could have originated from the clothing or that the fibers are consistent with originating from the clothing. The only way to say that a fiber did not originate from a particular item of clothing is to know the actual history of the garment or to have actually observed the fiber transfer from another garment. It is argued that the large volume of fabric produced reduces the significance of any fiber association discovered in a criminal case. It can never be stated with certainty that a fiber originated from a particular garment because other garments were likely produced using the same fiber type and color. [Emphasis added] The inability to positively associate a fiber with a particular garment to the exclusion of all other garments, however, does not mean that the fiber association is without value."
* Some discussion of fiber evidence in the JBR case is on Webbsleuths.


What Ramseys Were Wearing on December 25

* Patsy Wore Red, Black and Grey Fleece. In the August 28, 2000 Atlanta interview, based on photos taken at White's party (shown to Patsy in the 1998 interviews), Patsy said she was wearing "kind of a black and red and gray fleece" on the night of December 25 (p. 153, lines 23-24). This is referred to as a "jacket" in Bruce Levin's further questioning of Patsy.
* Priscilla White Owned Similar Jacket. In the same interviews, Patsy explained how she got that jacket: "Priscilla had had one like it that I admired. And she told me, I believe she told me she got hers at EMS. So I went there to look. And they didn't have one or I didn't want to get one exactly like hers. So I think I got that one at Marshals in Boulder" (p. 154, lines 14-20).


Fibers in Paint Tray

* Levin Comments. In the August 28, 2000 Atlanta interview with Patsy, Bruce Levin stated: "Based on the state of the art scientific testing, we believe the fibers from her jacket were found in the paint tray." (p. 200:lines 4-7).
* Significance? There is a substantial dispute over the significance of this.


Fibers on Duct Tape

Levin Comments. In the August 28, 2000 Atlanta interview with Patsy, Bruce Levin stated: "Based on the state of the art scientific testing, we believe the fibers from her jacket....were found on the duct tape that is found on the mouth." (p. 200:lines 4-10).

Lin Wood Comments. In the August 29, 2000 Atlanta interview with John Ramsey, Lin Wood asserted: "We are told there are hundreds of fibers, for example, on the duct tape." This statement was unrebutted by Bruce Levin (p. 57, lines 5-6).

* Henry Lee Comments. In December 2006, ït was reported that "several fibers were found on the duct tape covering JonBenet's mouth that were microscopically similar to a jacket worn by Patsy on Christmas night. Police considered that to be significant, but forensic expert Dr. Henry Lee has concluded that the fibers could have ended up there if "a mother kissed her child good night" and the fibers were transferred."


Dark Fibers in Genital Area

* Schiller's Account. "Arndt attended the autopsy. She reported that Meyers had found fibers on JBRs shirt which were similar to fibers found in her pubic area and also found green fibers in her hair...Meyers decided not to make notes of these events in his report" (Schiller 1999a:156; quotation and source provided by Internet poster Athena.

Blue Cotton Fibers?

* It was originally reported "Small dark blue fibers, consistent with a cotton towel, were recovered from the vaginal area." These allegedly were consistent with John Ramsey's bathrobe.
* Beckner Testimony. In his November 26, 2001 deposition for the Wolf/Ramsey suit, Mark Beckner was asked: "Because there were blue fibers found on the crime scene?" and responded "Yes" (p. 116, lines 10-12).
* Fibers from American Girl Doll? Internet poster Jahazafat claims she used to work for Pleasant Company, which sells American Girl dolls. Jahazafat believes that the dark blue and tan fibers may have come from a "Molly" version of that doll since it had a skirt that sheds dark blue wool fibers and a tan cotton torso. Nedra purchased such a Molly doll in September 1996 and may have given it to JonBenet at Thanksgiving.


Black Fibers?

* Internet poster PagingDr Detect suggests that since the Ramseys were not asked about blue fibers in the 2000 interviews, that suggests either the police had definitely established the source of these fibers or, more likely, that fibers mistakenly reported as dark blue turned out to be black. Note, however, this is not consistent with Mark Beckner's November 2001 testimony, so he was mistaken, lied or there were blue AND black fibers.
* Fibers from John's Shirt?

1. In the 2000 interviews with Patsy Ramsey, it was revealed that black fibers were found in JBR's panties and her crotch area; these reportedly matched one of 2 black shirts provided by John to investigators.
2. Internet poster PagingDrDetect claims this was the same shirt John wore to the White's party the preceding night.
3. However, Internet poster Eagle1 claims John's black shirt was made of wool, but the dark fibers reportedly were cotton.
4. Internet poster Bill Salisbury has asserted: "Lin Wood is on record as saying he checked out that Bruce Levin allegation about a black fiber from John's shirt in JonBenet's crotch area. Lin Wood has said he knows for a fact that the Bruce Levin allegation is completely untrue. I believe Lin Wood about that. I don't think Lin Wood would say that if he didn't believe what he was saying and that his credibility could be questioned in court. I reckon Lin Wood has seen the forensic report about the black fiber matter and knows Bruce Levin was fabricating that evidence."


Sources Ruled Out

* "Earlier in the case, the police had thought the fibers from the body came from John Ramsey’s bathrobe or Patsy’s black pants or from the blanket found near JonBenét or from the blanket that had been found inside the suitcase under the broken basement window. The fibers might also have come from JonBenét’s own clothes or from one of her stuffed animals. By now, however, all of those possibilities had been excluded [emphasis added], and the only logical explanation was that the fibers came from whatever had been used to wipe JonBenét or possibly from someone who might have rubbed up against her when she was unclothed, which allowed fibers to find their way along her skin and eventually into the folds of her labia. In any event, the clothes worn by Patsy and John on Christmas would have to be compared with the fibers" (Schiller 1999a:563; quote and source provided by Internet poster Margoo ).


Brown Cotton Fibers

* "Brown cotton fibers on JonBenet's body, the paintbrush, the duct tape and on the ligature were not sourced and do not match anything in the Ramsey home. (SMF P 181; PSMF P 181.) (Carnes 2003:20).
* Rocky Mountain News characterized these fibers as "light brown" and further reports that [Detective Lou] "Smit wonders if the killer wore gloves."
* Fibers from American Girl Doll? Internet poster Jahazafat claims she used to work for Pleasant Company, which sells American Girl dolls. Jahazafat believes that the dark blue and tan fibers may have come from a "Molly" version of that doll since it had a skirt that sheds dark blue wool fibers and a tan cotton torso. Nedra purchased such a Molly doll in September 1996 and may have given it to JonBenet at Thanksgiving.


Fibers from Sham & Duvet

* Where Found. A sham and duvet were found in the suitcase beneath the train room window.
* Match to Fibers on JBR? "A CBI examiner issued a report indicating fibers from the pillow sham and comforter were found on JonBenet's shirt, on her vaginal area, on the duct tape from her hand, on the hand ligature and inside the body bag." This is the lab report referenced in the Carnes opinion: "A lab report indicated that fibers from the sham and duvet were found on the shirt that JonBenet was wearing when she was found in the wine cellar. (SMF P 147; PSMF P 147.)" (Carnes 2003:Note 32, p. 68).
* Fibers on JBR Unmatched? However, it also has been reported “FBI analysis: FBI examiners said the fibers on JonBenet came from a source other than the pillow sham and comforter -- but none of them matched anything else in the house. "If the FBI examiner is right, the killer had to take that piece of material out with him," Smit said.”


Green Fibers in Hair.

* Schiller Account. "Arndt attended the autopsy. She reported that Meyers had found ... found green fibers in her hair...Meyers decided not to make notes of these events in his report" (Schiller 1999a:156; quotation and source


http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682473/Fiber-Evidence

I see and raise:

Fiber Evidence. Fibers matched to the red sweater Patsy was wearing that night were found in places key to the crime: the paintbrush caddy she kept her art supplies in, the blanket used to wrap JonBenet's body, on the sticky side of the duct tape placed over JonBenet's mouth, and tied into both knots of the ligature used to strangle JonBenet. Patsy denies she ever went near these places wearing that sweater. In the interviews with Boulder prosecutors in August, 2000, prosecutor Bruce Levin summed up the evidence: MR. LEVIN: "I think that is probably fair. Based on the state of the art scientific testing, we believe the fibers from her jacket were found in the paint tray, were found tied into the ligature found on JonBenet's neck, were found on the blanket that she is wrapped in, were found on the duct tape that is found on the mouth, and the question is, can she explain to us how those fibers appeared in those places that are associated with her daughter's death. And I understand you are not going to answer those."

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682497/Patsy-Ramsey

I should also point out that the jacket is a misunderstanding. It was the sweater. Levin merely misspoke.

 

[BBB167893]

Here is another article that claims too much forensic evidence exists to support an RDI. Or maybe something else? There is an interesting line in that article.
http://www.suite101.com/content/forensic-evidence-in-the-ramsey-case-a87580

I HAVE read it. I actually had to correct some of it myself.

 

[SunnieRN]

I see and raise:

Fiber Evidence. Fibers matched to the red sweater Patsy was wearing that night were found in places key to the crime: the paintbrush caddy she kept her art supplies in, the blanket used to wrap JonBenet's body, on the sticky side of the duct tape placed over JonBenet's mouth, and tied into both knots of the ligature used to strangle JonBenet. Patsy denies she ever went near these places wearing that sweater. In the interviews with Boulder prosecutors in August, 2000, prosecutor Bruce Levin summed up the evidence: MR. LEVIN: "I think that is probably fair. Based on the state of the art scientific testing, we believe the fibers from her jacket were found in the paint tray, were found tied into the ligature found on JonBenet's neck, were found on the blanket that she is wrapped in, were found on the duct tape that is found on the mouth, and the question is, can she explain to us how those fibers appeared in those places that are associated with her daughter's death. And I understand you are not going to answer those."

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682497/Patsy-Ramsey

I should also point out that the jacket is a misunderstanding. It was the sweater. Levin merely misspoke.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: