Israel Keyes: General Discussion

[digndoodle]

Sure would like to know if any cruisemates from that last cruise or any other came forward! Did he mix and mingle or mostly keep to himself...sure would like to know.

IK's cruise trips puzzle me a bit. I keep wondering, why does a serial killer go on these lone cruises? Could be for some of the same reasons other people do, I know -- but I'm not really a cruise type myself, so even those reasons are not super-clear to me. But I almost have to think -- there's some special purpose in it for him...the imagination can run wild here.

His last cruise was with his daughter and GF, but not sure of others he went on

Does anyone know if there is a way to get a list of passengers on a particular ship??? and can you look up the ship he took to see if any person was robbed, killed or perhaps went overboard???

 

[Backwoods]

His last cruise was with his daughter and GF, but not sure of others he went on

Does anyone know if there is a way to get a list of passengers on a particular ship??? and can you look up the ship he took to see if any person was robbed, killed or perhaps went overboard???

digndoodle -- you are saying that his girlfriend and his daughter were with him on the cruise he took after Samantha Koenig's murder, then? If so -- wow, I did not know that! Just totally slipped by me somehow.

If that's the case, I would tend to think that perhaps others were along on at least some of his other cruises.

One thing I have been wondering about lately that kind of ties in, though -- and that is, whether maybe his girlfriend, daughter or others may have been with him on some of those other long (on land) trips in the timeline. I had been thinking of it always being just him, flying and driving and driving, if not committing crimes then at least scoping out locations for future ones. But then it hit me that, very possibly, he was not always the "lone wolf" on the road on those trips. I think we just don't know, right?

(In no way am I saying others were involved in the crimes; I'm just commenting that he may not have always traveled alone. Would make it a bit easier to understand why his girlfriend put up with all the travels, IMO, if she sometimes went along.)

 

[digndoodle]

digndoodle -- you are saying that his girlfriend and his daughter were with him on the cruise he took after Samantha Koenig's murder, then? If so -- wow, I did not know that! Just totally slipped by me somehow.

If that's the case, I would tend to think that perhaps others were along on at least some of his other cruises.

One thing I have been wondering about lately that kind of ties in, though -- and that is, whether maybe his girlfriend, daughter or others may have been with him on some of those other long (on land) trips in the timeline. I had been thinking of it always being just him, flying and driving and driving, if not committing crimes then at least scoping out locations for future ones. But then it hit me that, very possibly, he was not always the "lone wolf" on the road on those trips. I think we just don't know, right?

(In no way am I saying others were involved in the crimes; I'm just commenting that he may not have always traveled alone. Would make it a bit easier to understand why his girlfriend put up with all the travels, IMO, if she sometimes went along.)

Backwoods, Yes that is what was said when it was 1st brought out about this cruise.....I truly don't know about the other cruise's he was known to take....The FBI stated when they searched the home in Anchorage that co-workers of the GF said she was in shock to find out about his killings and remember in the videos they released he said it was getting harder to live with others and continue to make up lies about all his trips and he also stated he just seemed to have lost interest in his jobs, everyday life and that is when he knew he was getting sloppy

I will try to find the link if I can about the GF and daughter being on this cruise....Sorry Bessie....lol

 

[Foxfire]

Decent article that I haven't read before. <sniped & BBM for focus>

http://www.seattleweekly.com/2013-01-23/news/israel-keyes-in-plane-sight/

Israel Keyes: In Plane Sight
Authorities didn't realize they had a jet-setting serial killer on their hands until an Anchorage inmate started talking.
By Rick Anderson Tue., Jan 22 2013 at 12:00AM

The Oregon rape was his first real crime, Keyes said. But now that he was admitting to having murdered or assaulted people most of his adult life, police wondered what he might have done in his youth. Keyes grew up in Colville, a small Stevens County town (population 4,700) about 70 miles north of Spokane. That's where he got his adolescent jollies, he told investigators, by torturing house pets.

That's also where a 12-year-old disabled girl was killed in 1996, when Keyes was around 17, her prosthetic feet found in a river and her body hidden in the woods. Did Keyes have a role in that?

He wasn't saying.

As he talked, major cold-case investigations were quietly launched in Seattle and elsewhere.

"We continue to review all unsolved homicides and many missing-persons cases across the state," Seattle FBI spokesperson Ayn Dietrich says. "We don't have an exact number, but it's in the dozens."

Noting that law-enforcement agencies are involved coast-to-coast, Dietrich adds, "It's challenging because the victims we know of span such a diverse range of age and circumstances." The more Keyes talked with investigators, the more inscrutable his crime trail seemed to become.

 

[Foxfire]

'Coincidence or tragic ironies'? Ted Bundy was born in Burlington, Vermont>Bill & Irene Currier...
Ted Bundy's name at birth: Theodore Robert Cowell>Mackenzie Cowell, Wenatchee, WA


Ted Bundy
Born: 24 November 1946
Died: 24 January 1989 (execution)
Birthplace: Burlington, Vermont
Best known as:
The smooth-talking serial killer who blamed *advertiser censored*

Name at birth: Theodore Robert Cowell

In fact, Keyes' murder marathon at one point took him to Bundy's birthplace, Burlington, Vermont, where Keyes ended up abducting and killing Lorraine Currier and husband Bill. Bundy, the self-described "most cold-hearted son-of-a-***** you will ever meet," was born there in 1946 to then-21-year-old Louise Cowell at the unwed mother's home. (She claimed to have been "seduced" by a sailor.)

Young Ted Cowell was raised to believe his grandparents were his parents and that mom Louise was his older sister. After marrying Tacoma hospital cook Johnny Bundy in 1951, Louise told him the full story. She defended her son to the end, once telling the Tacoma News Tribune, "Ted Bundy does not go around killing women and little children!" She died last month, at 88, from "a long illness."

As The Burlington Free Press recently reported, Keyes was "stunned" during his jailhouse confessionals when detectives asked him if he knew that Burlington was the notorious killer's hometown. As it turned out, the paper said, "Keyes had traveled to his idol's birthplace and didn't even know it."

Nonetheless, "He knew a lot about Ted Bundy," said Anchorage police detective Monique Doll at a December news conference. Keyes had studied Bundy and other murderers, although, Doll noted, "he was very careful to say that he had not patterned himself after any other serial killers, that his ideas were his own."

Read more: Ted Bundy Biography (Murderer) | Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/biography/var/tedbundy.html#ixzz2mHgTgjaX

Alaska killer Israel Keyes researched Ted Bundy
Confessed serial killer 'enjoyed seeing media coverage of his crimes'

An Alaska man who confessed to killing at least eight people across the country had researched Ted Bundy and other serial killers, saying he recognized himself in them, investigators said Monday.

But Israel Keyes told Anchorage authorities his ideas were his own. And most of all, he never called himself a serial killer, Anchorage homicide Detective Monique Doll said.

 

[Foxfire]

Alaska killer Israel Keyes researched Ted Bundy
Confessed serial killer 'enjoyed seeing media coverage of his crimes'

An Alaska man who confessed to killing at least eight people across the country had researched Ted Bundy and other serial killers, saying he recognized himself in them, investigators said Monday.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/alaska-killer-israel-keyes-researched-ted-bundy-1.1277346
But Israel Keyes told Anchorage authorities his ideas were his own. And most of all, he never called himself a serial killer, Anchorage homicide Detective Monique Doll said.

RE: 'IK, researched Ted Bundy and other serial killers

The following comment is my opinion only;

While in his teen years growing up in Colville, WA, Israel Keyes realized that he was different. IK realized that he was absent a conscience and had no empathy for others, had a fascination with guns, committed multiple burglaries, and like his idol; Ted Bundy, *advertiser censored*. IK was likely a peeping tom whose fantasies escalated to sadistic violent sexual assaults and murder. .

Fast forward to 01/1996, IK turned 18 years old. The front pages and lead stories of Seattle and Spokane, WA, ms media during this time would have been saturated with the news of two prolific serial killers; Gary Ridgeway; Green River(Seattle), and Robert Lee Yates; Spokane Serial Killer.. Both Ridgeway and Yates, preyed predominately on prostitutes..

Yet, Israel Keyes, never mentioned these two serial killers during the 40+ hours of FBI interviews.. IK did mention disposing of a body in a WA valley...Many of Yate's victims were located in or near Hangman Valley, WA...

 

[Backwoods]

In the East and Northeast IK thread, WS member Iwatchingeye has posted an interesting clue that IK may have been in Arkansas in April 2010. Here's that post:

I found this artical that has a little more information on Debra Feldman than I've been able to find anywhere such as street adress and other public record things. It has two persons that the FBI has ruled out as his victims. It also list two dates for these victim stating he was in Arkansas both dates so it ruled him out. On the timeline it only says Western USA. Could the Arkansas be a typo instead of Alaska or is there other info that has not been released yet?

Please forgive if I have posted the link incorrectly it is my first time putting a link on here. Also should I post the part about Arkansas on the general discussion thread?

http://www.northjersey.com/hackensa...killers_eye_investigators_say.html?c=y&page=1

In my reply to it, after having checked the timelines (just below Iwatchingeye's post in the E/NE thread), I confirmed it may be possible that IK was in Arkansas then.

What region are we considering Arkansas? I ask because I have found a possible case, if IK was indeed there then, and want to post it appropriately.

If it turns out that he was in Arkansas then, I think that's new info for us...?

ETA: Another possibility -- "Arkansas" MAY have been a mistake in the article, but what should have been said may have been ARIZONA, rather than Alaska. (That would fit even better with West than Arkansas, IMO.)

 

[Backwoods]

Is there a guide -- anywhere in WS Israel Keyes threads -- about which states to assign to which regions? If so, can someone point me to it?

If there's not one ... maybe we need one?

There's a lot of ways to divide the US into regions, it seems. For example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Census_Regions_and_Division_of_the_United_States.svg




If we haven't already specified a system, would this one do?

 

[bessie]

When I set up the initial threads, BW, I used the FBI timeline as a guide. Obviously, quite a few states are omitted, but it worked as a starting point. Now that the forum is growing, we need another solution, and yours should work just fine.

 

[Backwoods]

When I set up the initial threads, BW, I used the FBI timeline as a guide. Obviously, quite a few states are omitted, but it worked as a starting point. Now that the forum is growing, we need another solution, and yours should work just fine.

Oh, I think the thread Region labels are just fine, bessie, as you did them. What I was looking for was a guide to know which states go in each of the regions. That's what I couldn't find.

 

[Backwoods]

I put the Region map in the Maps and Photos thread for easy reference.

 

[cynar]

Backwoods and Iwatching --

I would bet a lot of money that this "news article" is simply a regurgitation of the FBI press release, and that the spokeswoman said that Keyes was in "AK" and the lazy reporter wrote "Arkansas"[AR] instead of "Alaska." [AK] I could even see it as an editorial error, where, in changing an abbreviation to a written-out state, a tired copyeditor misinterprets "AK" as "AR."

My opinion on this is due to: (a) Occam's Razor (at no time in interviews nor on FBI timeline is Arkansas mentioned. Alaska, however, is Keyes' home base.); (b) many other mistakes made by MSM who were seemingly unable to report information they'd been given correctly. Examples include bloopers by Nancy Grace, and one Texas tv news report where the reported had attended the LE briefing by Jeff Bell and then got the dates and events all wrong.

Seriously, I have no idea, with paid writing/reporting jobs so scarce and competitive, how these inept people keep their jobs. And it happens all the time -- Dateline did a show shortly after the recent SF air crash where they made a transcript of air traffic control communications, but they got words wrong because clearly no one who knew anything about air terminology and abbreviations had reviewed their transcript. Then they speculated on events based on factual errors their own reporters had introduced.

Don't get me started.

At any rate, these errors waste our time. IMO, Arkansas is a non-starter. And we could easily verify it by picking up the phone and calling the reporter or his or her editor.

In the East and Northeast IK thread, WS member Iwatchingeye has posted an interesting clue that IK may have been in Arkansas in April 2010. Here's that post:

In my reply to it, after having checked the timelines (just below Iwatchingeye's post in the E/NE thread), I confirmed it may be possible that IK was in Arkansas then.

What region are we considering Arkansas? I ask because I have found a possible case, if IK was indeed there then, and want to post it appropriately.

If it turns out that he was in Arkansas then, I think that's new info for us...?

ETA: Another possibility -- "Arkansas" MAY have been a mistake in the article, but what should have been said may have been ARIZONA, rather than Alaska. (That would fit even better with West than Arkansas, IMO.)

 

[Backwoods]

Backwoods and Iwatching --

I would bet a lot of money that this "news article" is simply a regurgitation of the FBI press release, and that the spokeswoman said that Keyes was in "AK" and the lazy reporter wrote "Arkansas"[AR] instead of "Alaska." [AK] I could even see it as an editorial error, where, in changing an abbreviation to a written-out state, a tired copyeditor misinterprets "AK" as "AR."

My opinion on this is due to: (a) Occam's Razor (at no time in interviews nor on FBI timeline is Arkansas mentioned. Alaska, however, is Keyes' home base.); (b) many other mistakes made by MSM who were seemingly unable to report information they'd been given correctly. Examples include bloopers by Nancy Grace, and one Texas tv news report where the reported had attended the LE briefing by Jeff Bell and then got the dates and events all wrong.

Seriously, I have no idea, with paid writing/reporting jobs so scarce and competitive, how these inept people keep their jobs. And it happens all the time -- Dateline did a show shortly after the recent SF air crash where they made a transcript of air traffic control communications, but they got words wrong because clearly no one who knew anything about air terminology and abbreviations had reviewed their transcript. Then they speculated on events based on factual errors their own reporters had introduced.

Don't get me started.

At any rate, these errors waste our time. IMO, Arkansas is a non-starter. And we could easily verify it by picking up the phone and calling the reporter or his or her editor.

bbm: Thanks for the input, cynar.

Yes, a reporter/editorial error is what I've thought of, too, as I've mentioned in posts on a couple of different threads.

Still, I'm not totally ruling Arkansas out, BUT -- what I really think is that ARIZONA, not Alaska, may have been meant, especially on the April case. With regard to the April 2010 NJ case rule-out, the timelines show IK being in the "West" for a very few days in April that includes that specific date -- and with no indication that he "returned to Alaska from somewhere" just before those days, etc.

The August date is more cryptic -- there's a long stretch there where there is no real indication of just WHERE in heck he was.

I did go ahead and post my possible April 2010 Arkansas victim in the Midwest thread. I do think she's a long shot, but guess I don't consider the effort a waste of time as much as "better safe than sorry".

 

[Backwoods]

Interesting to see some "update" coverage regarding tips submitted to the FBI.

I'm usually satisfied to just sit back and wait and let things "play out" in a complex situation such as this -- but I've gotta admit, with IK, there's been several times I sure wished I could see what kinds of things were coming in as tips after the appeal to the public.

FBI gets about 100 phone calls on serial murderer; no ties to Peninsula missing persons suspected

...Anglin said the Jefferson County Sheriff&#8217;s Office is investigating a report of a missing person, Delmar Sample, 53, of Onalaska, who was last seen in the Lake Quinault area in March 2005.

&#8220;There&#8217;s nothing that links him to Israel Keyes at this point,&#8221; Anglin said.

Goeden said two agents in the FBI&#8217;s Seattle office have been assigned to the case to investigate any leads in Washington state.

&#8220;The only thing I&#8217;d want to reiterate with your readers is that the FBI continues to solicit the public&#8217;s help in providing any information that could lead us to other victims of Israel Keyes.&#8221;

Anyone with information about Keyes or his possible victims should call 800-225-5324, or 800-CALL-FBI. ...

more at: http://peninsuladailynews.com/artic...100-phone-calls-on-serial-murderer-no-ties-to


bbm in the quote below -- Y'all think the info below about another victim in Texas is the current prevailing official view or possibly only picked up from an older, now outdated source? (I remember that being talked about early on but thought it sort of went away...but with this being a new article, I'm curious.)

FBI gets tips about late Alaska serial killer

...Keyes told investigators he murdered his victims in fewer than 10 states but did not disclose all the locations or the victims' identities.


"In a series of interviews with law enforcement, Keyes described significant planning and preparation for his murders, reflecting a meticulous and organized approach to his crimes," the FBI said in its August appeal for the public's help. "Investigators believe Keyes did not know any of his victims prior to their abductions."


He is thought to have killed another person in Texas following the Koenig murder. ...

more at: http://www.adn.com/2014/01/01/3254777/fbi-gets-tips-about-late-alaska.html

 

[Iwatchingeye]

I think the Texas Victim could possibly be James "Jimmy" Tidwell.

http://www.news-journal.com/news/po...cle_ec04e21d-adb6-54c2-ab75-700ef96a6d80.html

They said he has been missing since 2/16/12 but I don't think that date is 100% it's just that the last day he worked was 2/15/12.



It fit's GGE timeline


February 6 - 11, 2012: Carnival Cruise Lines trip - round trip from New Orleans, Louisiana.

February 16, 2012: National Bank of Texas robbery - Azle, Texas.


February 1, 2012: Keyes admitted to the abduction and murder of Samantha Koenig in Anchorage, Alaska. He disposed of her body in Matanuska Lake near Palmer, Alaska.

February 2, 2012 to February 18, 2012: Keyes flew to New Orleans where he went on a cruise until February 11th. After the cruise, he drove from New Orleans to Texas. Although he denied it, investigators believe Keyes may be responsible for a homicide in Texas or a surrounding state during this time.

On February 12, 2012, Keyes rented a blue 2011 Kia Soul from a Houston car rental agency and had the vehicle until February 18, 2012. Rental records show 2,847 miles were logged in that time period. In addition to Keyes’ time in Houston, investigators suspect he spent a large part of his time in the Dallas area, where his family lived.

Dallas/Fort Worth area - During February 2012, Keyes admitted traveling through the cities of Azle, Aledo, and Cleburne, Texas. Investigators suspect Keyes’ rental vehicle became stuck in a muddy, rural area, possibly near Cleburne, Texas, between February 12 and 16, 2012.

Glen Rose, Texas Area - Keyes is also suspected of visiting the Post Oak Cemetery in the Glen Rose, Texas area between February 12 and 16, 2012.

 

[Foxfire]

FBI gets more tips about serial killer Israel Keyes
STAFF AND WIRE REPORTS January 1, 2014
Updated 17 hours ago

Goeden said this week that FBI agents also are investigating tips they received on missing people elsewhere in the Pacific Northwest.

"They are cases we're not able to rule him out of, but we can't rule him into, either," Goeden said.

Keyes told investigators he murdered his victims in fewer than 10 states but did not disclose all the locations or the victims' identities.

Goeden said two agents in the FBI's Seattle office have been assigned to the case to investigate any leads in the state.

"The FBI does not typically release investigative details, like tips or leads," Ayn Sandalo Dietrich, a spokeswoman for the agency's Seattle office, said Tuesday in an email.
<sniped>

Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2014/01/01/3254777/fbi-gets-tips-about-late-alaska.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Backwoods]

I think the Texas Victim could possibly be James "Jimmy" Tidwell.

http://www.news-journal.com/news/po...cle_ec04e21d-adb6-54c2-ab75-700ef96a6d80.html

They said he has been missing since 2/16/12 but I don't think that date is 100% it's just that the last day he worked was 2/15/12.



It fit's GGE timeline


February 6 - 11, 2012: Carnival Cruise Lines trip - round trip from New Orleans, Louisiana.

February 16, 2012: National Bank of Texas robbery - Azle, Texas.


February 1, 2012: Keyes admitted to the abduction and murder of Samantha Koenig in Anchorage, Alaska. He disposed of her body in Matanuska Lake near Palmer, Alaska.

February 2, 2012 to February 18, 2012: Keyes flew to New Orleans where he went on a cruise until February 11th. After the cruise, he drove from New Orleans to Texas. Although he denied it, investigators believe Keyes may be responsible for a homicide in Texas or a surrounding state during this time.

On February 12, 2012, Keyes rented a blue 2011 Kia Soul from a Houston car rental agency and had the vehicle until February 18, 2012. Rental records show 2,847 miles were logged in that time period. In addition to Keyes’ time in Houston, investigators suspect he spent a large part of his time in the Dallas area, where his family lived.

Dallas/Fort Worth area - During February 2012, Keyes admitted traveling through the cities of Azle, Aledo, and Cleburne, Texas. Investigators suspect Keyes’ rental vehicle became stuck in a muddy, rural area, possibly near Cleburne, Texas, between February 12 and 16, 2012.

Glen Rose, Texas Area - Keyes is also suspected of visiting the Post Oak Cemetery in the Glen Rose, Texas area between February 12 and 16, 2012.

Sure sounds like a possibility ...IF investigators still believe there was another victim (in Texas) after Samantha in Alaska.

I know they were leaning that way at one time...but it seemed that after a bit they started saying they thought Samantha was his last victim. That's why I am wondering whether that one update article I posted -- which is otherwise so similar to the several update articles/stories that came out in the last few days but is the only one I've seen that mentions the thought of a last victim in TX -- might have picked up old info on that one point.

 

[KateB]

A short paragraph on IK is in next month's Texas Monthly magazine. This article about the Church of Wells was posted to their website today.

http://www.texasmonthly.com/story/is-the-church-of-wells-a-cult?fullpage=1

 

[Lucky 1]

From KateB's link:

http://www.texasmonthly.com/story/is-the-church-of-wells-a-cult?fullpage=1

Sinners in the Hands
When is a church a cult?
by Sonia Smith
February 2014

BBM

At their second meeting, a twelve-hour affair on July 31 at the home of church member Heidi Keyes (the mother of Israel Keyes), Ringnald spoke for hours about church doctrine, and Catherine said little. When Ringnald finished speaking, Keyes said it was time to judge the Groves &#8220;by their fruits,&#8221; as laid out in Matthew 7:16&#8211;20. According to Patty&#8217;s recounting, Keyes pointed her finger at her and said, &#8220;I can tell by your fruits that you are an ungodly, unsaved woman!&#8221;

Looks like I might owe digndoodle an apology!

 

[dotr]

New ..

http://www.serialkillerquarterly.com/product/subscription-1-4