GUILTY FL - Jordan Davis, 17, shot to death, Satellite Beach, 23 Nov 2012 #8

[popsicle]

What do you guys think... would the jury be more opt to speak out if they were split on the level of 1st degree murder or if they were split on G/NG?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I tend to think they were hung up on self defense too. If it was a matter of everybody thought he was guilty of murder but they disagreed on the degree it seems like it would have been easier to come to a compromise verdict. It's harder to talk "not guilty" into "guilty" or vice versa than to talk "1st degree" to "2nd degree" (or v.v.). There was a juror question about what if it was self defense for one, was it self defense for all of them, so someone was apparently thinking that it was self defense.

I don't agree. I know I believe it was murder 1. But I would have settled for murder 2. I would not have voted for manslaughter. And I would have held my ground.

I just don't think anyone thinks it was self defense. Because if it was really self defense those AM charges really don't fly because he was shooting in fear of his life. If you but self defense you have to think he was shooting to protect himself and not to kill them.

Kwim? I hope they tell us. I do. And if it does come back to a self defense hold out I hope it was a low number.


Forgive the autocorrect. Tapatalk has a mind of its own.

 

[popsicle]

He shot 3 times, paused, shot 4 times, paused, shot 3 more times. I can see the attempted murder convictions vs self defense. I just believe he is also guilty of 1st degree murder.

 

[Coldpizza]

Jordan Davis Parents to Michael Dunn | Press Conference | EMOTIONAL Statement

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2A1_CfqnAI

 

[Softail]

I wish the media would get it right! On my Facebook, and our local news, everyone keeps saying "Mistrial declared in Dunn Case". It is wrong and misleading! :banghead:

 

[gxm]

I don't agree. I know I believe it was murder 1. But I would have settled for murder 2. I would not have voted for manslaughter. And I would have held my ground.

I just don't think anyone thinks it was self defense. Because if it was really self defense those AM charges really don't fly because he was shooting in fear of his life. If you but self defense you have to think he was shooting to protect himself and not to kill them.

Kwim? I hope they tell us. I do. And if it does come back to a self defense hold out I hope it was a low number.


Forgive the autocorrect. Tapatalk has a mind of its own.

I'm with you. I just can't believe that anyone bought Dunn's self defense story. Not even his GF backed him up on the "I saw a gun" fiction. And, if anyone did, I hope they were a minority of one.

IMO, John Guy is horrible and I really hope that he is on the sidelines for the retrial.

 

[gxm]

What do you guys think... would the jury be more opt to speak out if they were split on the level of 1st degree murder or if they were split on G/NG?

I can only speak for myself but if I'd been on the jury I would absolutely speak out if anyone else was voting NG. I'd call them out in a heartbeat, but that's just me.

 

[Donjeta]

I don't agree. I know I believe it was murder 1. But I would have settled for murder 2. I would not have voted for manslaughter. And I would have held my ground.

I just don't think anyone thinks it was self defense. Because if it was really self defense those AM charges really don't fly because he was shooting in fear of his life. If you but self defense you have to think he was shooting to protect himself and not to kill them.

Kwim? I hope they tell us. I do. And if it does come back to a self defense hold out I hope it was a low number.


Forgive the autocorrect. Tapatalk has a mind of its own.

I see what you mean but I think that even if one buys Dunn's made up self defense argument, some people might see the first few shots that targeted Jordan as a form of justified self defense but then realize that he continued shooting after the car left and the threat, if any, was going away. Dunn said he shot at the cars because there were four shooters in the car but in reality there were none.He got out of his car to shoot some more at them after the alleged threat was fleeing the scene. That is no longer self defense.

Tevin Thompson never did anything to threaten Dunn, he just turned the music down, as Dunn asked, and instead of the common courtesy of a thank you he got two bullets in his door. Tommie Storns was out buying ciggies and the only thing he ever did to Dunn was try to get outta there as fast as he could, and he nearly escaped a bullet that ended up in his visor. Leland Brunson didn't shoot Dunn either.

 

[Leilei]

There doesn't have to be a re-trial, but the SA said she is going to go ahead with it if it's ok by Jordan's parents. I don't think they'll mind at all.

A retrial works against the defendant because now all of the defendants cards have been exposed. The prosecution knows how they plan to attack. So now the state can be more precise in their arguments against him. IIRC.

I'm hoping that, if/when they retry, they bring in more of the jailhouse letters, and that they bring in the phone calls. I also hope that they focus more on Jordan, and how, by all accounts, he was a good kid with a bright future.

 

[turaj]

There doesn't have to be a re-trial, but the SA said she is going to go ahead with it if it's ok by Jordan's parents. I don't think they'll mind at all.

A retrial works against the defendant because now all of the defendants cards have been exposed. The prosecution knows how they plan to attack. So now the state can be more precise in their arguments against him. IIRC.

And a very important point the jury can talk to any of the attorneys they want. I think there was probably one holdout on the first count...it could have been everyone wanted m2 and someone wanted m1 (not that likely) or probably most wanted m1 and someone wanted m2 or bought the self defense...so most jurors probably wanted to convict him on court 1 and will therefore be happy to talk to the prosecution ...they can learn exactly what worked with the jury...what did not and have a better case next time. I'm not so sure most jurors will be that interested in helping MD's next case. They don't have to talk to Strolla and hope they do not.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I see what you mean but I think that even if one buys Dunn's made up self defense argument, some people might see the first few shots that targeted Jordan as a form of justified self defense but then realize that he continued shooting after the car left and the threat, if any, was going away. Dunn said he shot at the cars because there were four shooters in the car but in reality there were none.He got out of his car to shoot some more at them after the alleged threat was fleeing the scene. That is no longer self defense.



Tevin Thompson never did anything to threaten Dunn, he just turned the music down, as Dunn asked, and instead of the common courtesy of a thank you he got two bullets in his door. Tommie Storns was out buying ciggies and the only thing he ever did to Dunn was try to get outta there as fast as he could, and he nearly escaped a bullet that ended up in his visor. Leland Brunson didn't shoot Dunn either.

But if he is still shooting at the car and he is still also shooting at Jordan. So even if they believe the first part was only aimed at Jordan when he is still shooting at the car he is still shooting at ALL of them. Kwim?


Forgive the autocorrect. Tapatalk has a mind of its own.

 

[turaj]

I'm with you. I just can't believe that anyone bought Dunn's self defense story. Not even his GF backed him up on the "I saw a gun" fiction. And, if anyone did, I hope they were a minority of one.

IMO, John Guy is horrible and I really hope that he is on the sidelines for the retrial.

I would love to hear from fore person...in the Arias penalty phase where they could not reach a verdict that foreman was awful...you could tell he had a big agenda and should not have had that job.

In this case I doubt if it was more than one person maybe even a split on m1/m2 but I think most would have been okay with m2...if would have caved in lieu of not having resolution. M2 would have held him accountable for the murder...it is possible that some thought m2 would have him on the street sometime in the future and just could not do it. Jury not knowing penalties etc. I suppose is good...they have enough to consider and should just consider the evidence but sometimes it might help get a verdict vs hung.

As for Guy I like him but maybe they did not...again Corey can talk to them and ask straight up who did you like and not like...very helpful..hope they talk to her.

 

[gxm]

I'm hoping that, if/when they retry, they bring in more of the jailhouse letters, and that they bring in the phone calls. I also hope that they focus more on Jordan, and how, by all accounts, he was a good kid with a bright future.

Agreed! I also hope that they hammer home the fact that the teenagers did not "flee the scene." They fled a madman shooting up their car. They only went as far as they needed to feel out of danger in an adjacent park lot. They never even got on the street! They quickly checked damage on the car and to see if everyone was okay. As soon as they realized Jordan was badly hurt, they reversed (didn't even hesitate to turn the car around) back to the Gate. They never had anything (much less a shotgun which would be clearly visible) in their hands and they never "ditched" anything. This is all confirmed by eye witnesses.

Not here but elsewhere, I keep hearing/reading people say that the teens fled the scene. They did not flee the scene, they fled their attacker. There is a HUGE difference.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

Ugh, I just heard an "expert" this morning say that Dunn would have the possibility of parole! Florida doesn't have parole! The best one can do is 15% gain time for good behavior.

Assuming Dunn gets 60 years and the sentence for Count 5 is concurrent, it would mean 60 years minus 9 years gain time and minus about one year, three months for time served. That would end up giving him the earliest release date at 49 years, 9 months, approximately. He would be about 96-97 years old.

I thinking it will be quite a while before we hear about those appeals.

 

[turaj]

I wonder if Strolla will actually want to continue with appeal...odds are excellent it would be turned down and from what I gather he would be working "pro bono". If he were smart which he appears to be and has an out which I believe he does he will take the fairly positive exposure he has and move on. MD is a loser. I would imagine if tried again he would do that but not sure.

 

[Donjeta]

But if he is still shooting at the car and he is still also shooting at Jordan. So even if they believe the first part was only aimed at Jordan when he is still shooting at the car he is still shooting at ALL of them. Kwim?


Forgive the autocorrect. Tapatalk has a mind of its own.

*looking confused*
Yeah, when he was shooting at the SUV that was leaving he was shooting at all of them. It was my point.

I am not very clear on the bullet trajectories but I can't see how he could have been aiming at Jordan when he was shooting at Tevin Thompson's door. (Unless he was very, very drunk and a very, very bad shot I guess.)

 

[turaj]

Some may consider it a "rag" but I check Daily UK Mail frequently as they seem to do better research and have great photos of people and events in the news and they seem to have it much quicker than local news. Today they have photos of michael and Sara one of the past wives. Check it out just by googling above Daily UK Mail can't miss it..highlight the story and the photos. It seems that Rhonda was looking pretty good when they met..much different than the woman we saw. At this point someone is going to find Sara and Clara and maybe more kids...I know about the daughter and son but there are more. Much more will come out about this guy and I hope whoever hung the jury will see what a mistake they made. I think there was more than enough before the court but someone did not agree with me.

 

[LambChop]

Thanks! :seeya: I understand the statute, I just don't like it. lol

I guess to me if you have to use a gun for self-defense against someone who does not have a gun, it is no longer self-defense. Some people use guns violently and should not own, much less use it for self-defense.

An attacker does not have to have a gun. They could have a knife, they could be choking you, anything where you know your life is about to end if you do not act. Self defense does not have to include a gun. jmo

 

[bamacurious]

I heard from several lawyers yesterday that the attempted murder convictions are set convictions...minimum 20 years...up to 30..each. To be served consecutively, NOT concurrently, with every day to be served. That is because each charge was against a separate victim. I think everyone was very clear on this. The 5th charge is 10-15 years added consecutively, as well. I only mention this because people keep talking about parole. He won't get it on these.

 

[gxm]

IMO, Dunn was angry not frightened when he fired those three bursts into the Durango. His actions from beginning to end (arrest) are reckless not fearful. But I think in time, he has come to believe his own fiction. Perhaps he's a self-serving, self-centered sociopath, or perhaps it's the only way he can live with himself. I can understand the self-delusion. But I just can't understand anyone else falling for it.