Trial Discussion Thread #19 - 14.04.07, Day 17

[jay-jay]

I'm reading back and remembered I lost a post that was quite important; the defence pathologist said he believes Reeva voided her bladder very shortly before her death....so that could mean she had just gone to the toilet, as OP says.

I took it to mean that that was as a result of what people naturally do upon death, not that she had actually been to the loo? If she'd been to the loo, and there was no urine found in the toilet bowl, then she would've already have flushed by the time OP came in all guns blazing .. and he would've heard the loo flush. We've heard nothing yet to say that the urine was found in the toilet bowl, and that she hadn't flushed .. so I can only assume that when they say she voided her bladder, that was either through fear (that is actually natural 'fight or flight' reponse, emptying bladder/bowels*) or immediately upon death, as that is a natural bodily function too.


*your body expels any additional weight it is carrying in order to allow you to escape your threat more quickly

 

[jay-jay]

Happy to say it didn't happen that night so doesn't carry any weight to the case but still doesn't mean we know for sure how it happened except his word for it .
It could still have been done in anger at some other time

Yep, so many of these things we still just have OP's word for .. they shouldn't be taken as absolute fact.

 

[DebinGA]

I'm reading back and remembered I lost a post that was quite important; the defence pathologist said he believes Reeva voided her bladder very shortly before her death....so that could mean she had just gone to the toilet, as OP says.

... or RS was so terrified at OP's final bat bangings she peed her pants.

 

[MeeBee]

I took it to mean that that was as a result of what people naturally do upon death, not that she had actually been to the loo? If she'd been to the loo, and there was no urine found in the toilet bowl, then she would've already have flushed by the time OP came in all guns blazing .. and he would've heard the loo flush. We've heard nothing yet to say that the urine was found in the toilet bowl, and that she hadn't flushed .. so I can only assume that when they say she voided her bladder, that was either through fear (that is actually natural 'fight or flight' mechanism) or immediately upon death, as that is a natural bodily function too.

Roux asked about the teaspoon of urine in her bladder and he said that indicated it happened shortly before death. I took that to mean she'd gone to the bathroom shortly before she died.

I don't know if it's fair to say there was no urine found in the toilet bowl since the police didn't know look for urine that night and by the time it became relevant the toilet would have been long flushed by then. There was also a lot of blood in the toilet so it would be hard to tell just by looking anyway.

 

[steveml]

Nobody likes to see or hear someone break down on the stand, he needs to do this, Reeva's family need to know. If he's not capable of getting through his testimony, he should never have taken the stand. In saying that, there was no sympathy from some people when a states witness broke down on the stand, she was an innocent bystander, in fact there were people hailing Roux's sarcastic questioning of her as brilliant. Could it be that some are worried about Nel questioning OP, after all it's his job to get to the truth, for the victim.

I want OP to take the stand, he should tell everyone what happened. If he didn't take the stand in this crime I'd want the book thrown at him.
Nel will go in heavy with witnesses and is entitled to do so. It was just a bit surprising to see this very sarcastic side of him today.

I wasn't very complimentary of Mrs Stipp at all to be honest - I'll hold my hands up. She frustrated the hell out of me.
However, as the case went on we grew to like each other more, and any initial stormy waters are now merely mill-ponds.

I think I even said she was gutsy not too long ago.

 

[MeeBee]

He really did have all of his lines memorized. Normally people testifying will give an answer that is lacking, at least a few that are lacking, and the attorney that is asking the question will restate or clarify what he is asking to prompt the witness. I did not see that happen once. Correct me if I am wrong, but not once Did Roux have to go back to OP on a single question.

It will not be so under cross examination by Mr. Nel. I almost screamed when he told the Professor, "No professor it is not that you might be wrong, YOU ARE WRONG!"

There were actually a handful of times that Roux had to go back and ask OP the question in a different way because OP didn't understand the question and answered it differently.

 

[wb180]

What I got from this whole thing is OP likes to talk alot on crime on himself and others but his actions tells another story.

At least that is consistent with his statement. He talks alot being so scared that night and yet his actions show he wasn't scared at all.

 

[graceholl]

... or RS was so terrified at OP's final bat bangings she peed her pants.

Apologies for the graphic-ness, but I would assume if that were the case they would have noted this on the shorts she was wearing.

 

[Magdalyn]

This might shed a little light on the topic.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/03/paul-ryan-inner-cities-problem

The problems of crime in inner cities was being related to African-Americans and the culture of the inner cities.

I'm unclear on how posting a politically left website (Mother Jones, not an MSM article related to this case) insisting Paul Ryan is secretly saying racist things without actually saying them clears anything up.

The word 'urban' does not men black.

The word 'culture' does not mean black.

Unless Mother Jones insists it's racially loaded rhetoric. Then it is so. :banghead:

 

[kittychi]

We now know why Nel never pursued the broken window. There was a replacement pane at home (presumably in the garage) all along.

I think anyone who thought the broken window was caused due to a fight/argument downstairs, can safely eliminate that window from their theory now.

:judge:

I didn't think it was related to a fight or argument, but I did think it was relevant to him feeling paranoid of intruders.

 

[jay-jay]

Roux asked about the teaspoon of urine in her bladder and he said that indicated it happened shortly before death. I took that to mean she'd gone to the bathroom shortly before she died.

I don't know if it's fair to say there was no urine found in the toilet bowl since the police didn't know look for urine that night and by the time it became relevant the toilet would have been long flushed by then. There was also a lot of blood in the toilet so it would be hard to tell just by looking anyway.

.. 'shortly' could mean anything, though .. even a fraction of a second.

Reeva had her shorts fully pulled up at the time of the shooting .. so either, she had not been for a pee (or been for a pee by the time he shot her), or she had just been for a pee and had pulled her pants back up again. Neither scenario works because in the first one with her shorts up, she's not been for a pee (yet), so would still have urine in her bladder, and the second one (post pee) OP would've heard the toilet flush. So it can only have been her naturally evacuating her bladder either through fear or upon her death.

 

[DebinGA]

Apologies for the graphicness, but I would assume if that were the case they would have noted this on the shorts she was wearing.

Well, both pathologists agreed at death the bladder empties, and she was wearing shorts pulled all the way up when she died.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I want OP to take the stand, he should tell everyone what happened. If he didn't take the stand in this crime I'd want the book thrown at him.
Nel will go in heavy with witnesses and is entitled to do so. It was just a bit surprising to see this very sarcastic side of him today.

I wasn't very complimentary of Mrs Stipp at all to be honest - I'll hold my hands up. She frustrated the hell out of me.
However, as the case went on we grew to like each other more, and any initial stormy waters are now merely mill-ponds.

I think I even said she was gutsy not too long ago.

Looking at his behaviour in court today I am seriously wondering if when he has finished speaking with Roux we will see a big breakdown to try and avoid cross exam .

 

[Cherwell]

I'm reading back and remembered I lost a post that was quite important; the defence pathologist said he believes Reeva voided her bladder very shortly before her death....so that could mean she had just gone to the toilet, as OP says.

I took it to mean that that was as a result of what people naturally do upon death, not that she had actually been to the loo? If she'd been to the loo, and there was no urine found in the toilet bowl, then she would've already have flushed by the time OP came in all guns blazing .. and he would've heard the loo flush. We've heard nothing yet to say that the urine was found in the toilet bowl, and that she hadn't flushed .. so I can only assume that when they say she voided her bladder, that was either through fear (that is actually natural 'fight or flight' reponse, emptying bladder/bowels*) or immediately upon death, as that is a natural bodily function too.


*your body expels any additional weight it is carrying in order to allow you to escape your threat more quickly

As she was dressed, it will have been obvious if when she urinated, she did so into the toilet or not. If she did, I don't think it proves anything really. Even if she was taking refuge in the loo, she might have taken the opportunity to have a pee anyway.

 

[Carol70]

Well, Steve, that's still not good enough. OP can give a perfectly reasonable explanation for it and it's still, "nope, no way, the air gun did that." Similar if the broken door and Reeva's jeans get brought up and OP also has a reasonable explanation for those. I knew Roux would get to that stuff as opposed to just leaving it in the air.

LOL, for sure!

I saw someone mention earlier about "who throws a cricket ball around a glass window"? (sorry, cant remember who it was). I have a son and boys IMO, are destructive. He has managed to send a dining table through a glass window while arm wrestling with a friend (don't ask :facepalm: ) and he threw a smallish rock in the yard that landed up going through a "shatterproof" glass door. I find nothing strange about tossing a cricket ball around a garden.

 

[DebinGA]

Looking at his behaviour in court today I am seriously wondering if when he has finished speaking with Roux we will see a big breakdown to try and avoid cross exam .

I can certainly imagine that.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Well, both pathologists agreed at death the bladder empties, and she was wearing shorts pulled all the way up when she died.

Which means if his version is to be believed she must have been shot immediately after locking the door otherwise she would have been sat on the loo.
How on earth can we believe he didn't hear a door close and the key turn .I do keep really trying to see his version work but it sure is hard .He heard a window slide at a much further distance but didn't here door and key closer mmmmm.....

 

[Carol70]

IIRC there was no broken glass found, so that eliminated the break happening that night imo. Hope Nel has a receipt for the new pane showing terrified of intruders OP didn't have have it fixed immediately.

Well, I would hope anyone with 2 brain cells would actually pick up broken glass and bin it when they have dogs running around the property.

 

[sorrell skye]

Have y'all noticed how much stroking OP apparently requires? I'd noticed it in his family interactions in court, but now one of his many psychologists actually goes into the dock to stroke him? Very, very bizarre imo.

Remember the text message where Reeva was upset because of OP's irritation at her for comforting him by touching his neck?

https://twitter.com/justteaplease/status/448168967098863616/photo/1

I suppose when it suits OP's agenda, he welcomes being comforted.

 

[turaj]

OP's routine response to unpleasant facts about what he did during the murder...ie grapping his ears...facing down and sort of rocking seems a pathetic response and shows that he is childlike in many aspects of his personality. His running fame came to him long before he ever developed as a person and thus he is left to act this way. Also it is probably staged but even that is pathetic. He needs to sit like a man in court and he can look away or whatever but wonder what is going to happen to him under cross or even direct. Somehow he does not evoke sympathy in me.