Trial Discussion Thread #34 - 14.05.06 Day 27

[Gbtaketwo]

The thing that surprises me the most about today is Roux encouraging women to cry out because it is quite clear they didn't hear the events leading up to the shooting only OP crying after which we already knew.
The defence seem to have nothing to discredit the other ear witnesses.The female screaming surely stands .
Basically as well as believing his version of how Reeva got into the toilet to aquit OP the judge will now have to believe that OP never heard Reeva scream at all during the approx 10 mins of screaming that Mr and Mrs Stipp's heard.
Mmmmmm that's a big ask .

 

[Trooper]

Surely they should have got the male witnesses to show how OP screamed 'like a woman', not the female witnesses!

that's my thinking, Sooz.. I really thought that Mr N would do it for the court.. * shrug* .. but he was a sort of a touchy kind of guy.. sensitive to his image, I felt..

 

[ColonelMustard]

For those of you with withdrawal symptoms WhoopWhoop are about to re run last night's legal round table. You can find it here.

http://whoopwhoop.tv/pistoriusradio.htm

Hey, thanks MUCH for this. It was VERY interesting!

 

[Forensics]

What I find interesting is Mr. Mike N's testimony about how he felt when he saw Reeva. It was traumatic and you could hear the horror in his voice.

But yesterday both Mr Stander and Ms Stander almost brushed Reeva aside. Their emotion and pity was reserved for Oscar, not Reeva.

Good point!

 

[swissmonster]

R: Did you share any commmon interests?

N says yes, cars. OP would stop by to show off his new cars.

He met Reeva once, Sunday before her death, I think? OP brought her around to the house in a white BMW. 'Introduced her to me...one thing that struck me about her....when she came towards me, I held out my hand, and she just opened her arms and hugged me.

The hugging : another premonition? The paintings, the love of life, the human contact... Poor child knew her fate for so long... without really knowing. Breaks my heart.

 

[liesbeth]

But again Mrs. VDM heard these same cries and thought it was a woman. She had to be corrected. So the prosecution witness gave us two things: a. He can potentially sound like a woman when under duress and b. his crying was low enough that his pitch and voice could be correctly identified by someone close or someone who'd heard him speak before.

Mrs vd Merwe also said her husband said it was Oscar crying like a woman. A man crying like a woman. Not a woman.

ETA: And Mike N. said he didn't know who was crying at first. He wasn't sure. Only later when he went to OP's house did he see OP crying but the voice was lower.

Note that it is a man sounding LIKE a woman. Definitely a male voice. If Oscar really screams like a woman, then all these witnesses would have said they heard a female voice, no?

Point is that these witnesses are testifying that they could hear gender in OP's voice. Male. He sounded like a man with a high voice. But they are adamant that they knew it was a male voice crying. Not a woman. Just a man who sounds like a woman. It is not the same as saying they heard a female screaming.

This is bad, bad, bad for the defense.

Edit: These witnesses support the state's case that the other witnesses heard a woman scream. Because Oscar doesn't sound like a woman to today's three witnesses. He sounds like a man. Falsetto...a man with a high voice. But not one of them mistook his wailing for that of a female.

So all three are saying he has a high wailing voice like a woman, but they could hear it was a man. And they were adamant about this.

 

[Mr Fossil]

Roux's inability to line up sufficient witnesses to fill the last two days and the fact that he thinks he'll be finished by next Tuesday (just 4 more court days as tomorrow is a holiday) suggests to me that maybe Roux has a problem putting up enough defence witnesses to support whichever of OP's versions we're being asked to believe. We'll see.

 

[jay-jay]

Roux blaming Nel for not asking enough questions for him being caught out again!

Nel is obviously very confident, imo .. he doesn't feel the need to ask them very many questions.

 

[swissmonster]

That is such bull arp......I've dated guys that did that to me.......introduced as 'fiancé without so much as a discussion of the subject before......I consider it's red flag

Yep, with you on that one.

 

[Jake18]

Does anyone know if the witnesses were likely to have been asked in advance to give demonstrations of the cries they heard, or if they just did these on impulse?

And if the fact that only the women were demonstrating was just a coincidence?

Roux, I think, is desperate. So far he's promised but hasn't delivered a double tap theory, a head shot last theory and a cricket bat on door sounding as loud as gunshots theory (Dixon's sound fiddling notwithstanding). He also promised email evidence of Sam Taylor's infidelity and I don't think that was forthcoming.

However, several barking dogs HAVE been produced.

None of that, in my opinion, negates the gunshots, Reeva screaming and the "intermingled" voices Dr Stipp heard.

 

[MeeBee]

Mrs vd Merwe said her husband said it was Oscar crying like a woman. A man crying like a woman. Not a woman.

He didn't say that.

She said she thought it was a woman crying and her husband said, no, that's OP. But the defense is saying the screams, not cries, before the second set of bangs were OP and he sounded like a woman. This point has still not been disproven.

 

[Apollo]

In a nutshell: Thus far, Roux has called 4 ear witnesses NONE of whom are unable to substantiate OP's version or refute the State's version, as the human sounds they heard (a male crying) happened after the killing, or as in the case of Mrs. Nhlengetha's after a bang.

And that OP was the head of the neighborhood Welome Wagon---let's not forget that little nugget in their testimonies.:facepalm:

 

[BritsKate]

For those of you with withdrawal symptoms WhoopWhoop are about to re run last night's legal round table. You can find it here.

http://whoopwhoop.tv/pistoriusradio.htm

Thank you! Tuned in just in time to hear how Nel is gentle and quick with these witnesses because they're not doing any damage to his case.

I'd say.

 

[Trooper]

I think the only reason Mr N was on the stand for the defence was in regard to his crankup with the SAPS.. no other reason whatsoever..

 

[sleuth-d-]

Does anyone know if the witnesses were likely to have been asked in advance to give demonstrations of the cries they heard, or if they just did these on impulse?

that was a coincidence wasn't it. i love coincidences.

 

[lithgow1]

Quik post of stuff am picking up from Interested's radio link - lots of intresting stuff - Below is from legal people - judge, law prof etc. will be discussing where they see case is as of now. apologies for typos etc

You cannot use that degree of force on a human being unless it is unavoidable and

doesn't matter if person has a weapon or not

what matters is if op thoguht he was under attack and entitled to use that degree of force

re appeals - there is the double-jeopardy thing in that he can't be placed in jeopardy twice (so state can't appeal an acquital) but they can appeal to increase the sentence if he is found guilty on a lesser charge (so increase from CH I guess)
new people

now they saying 'what will defence be?'. need to show that there case is reasonably possibly true not prove it

don't see value of witnesses (all agree) - difficult that they only hear crying no screaming or other sounds - all after event.

state not contesting op cried hi pitched - gentle cross as Nel not bothered about these witnesses - nothing to probe

 

[Trooper]

And that OP was the head of the neighborhood Welome Wagon---let's not forget that little nugget in their testimonies.:facepalm:

whoda thunk it~`!! Oscar, mr Nice Guy , ..... :giggle:

 

[lithgow1]

here is Interested's link again - good stuff

http://whoopwhoop.tv/pistoriusradio.htm

 

[zwiebel]

What I find interesting is Mr. Mike N's testimony about how he felt when he saw Reeva. It was traumatic and you could hear the horror in his voice.

But yesterday both Mr Stander and Ms Stander almost brushed Reeva aside. Their emotion and pity was reserved for Oscar, not Reeva.

My heart broke a little more for her when I heard that. It takes some kind of faith in human nature to hug a stranger who you have only just met, in everyday circumstances.

No wonder June smiled when she heard his testimony though. It was a very moving tribute to her daughter, far more than anything OP's said about her, I think.

 

[zoran]

Thanks a lot for that - this will be interesting

it is indeed