Trial Discussion Thread #34 - 14.05.06 Day 27

[lithgow1]

So there we have it, the first sound's were thunder, second sound's were the gunshots, lock him up.

When I read your post James it made me think, imagine if there HAD been a big storm that night with loud claps of thunder - some people really would have ended up with PTSD - Pistorius Timeline Sounds Derangement.*

*Not to make light of genuine PTSD.

 

[nastasya]

Let's get out of the weeds and take a brief moment to look at what one would have to believe to not find OP a cold-blooded killer:

To believe OP's story one must believe 5 witnesses did not hear a woman actually being attacked and murdered, and instead heard OP making the sounds of a woman being attacked and murdered, just seconds after he actually shot and killed a woman.

Has that ever happened in recorded history?

An innocent man reproducing the exact sounds of the crime he is accused of just moments after the alleged crime, and witnesses only hearing the reproduced sounds but not the actual sounds of the crime that happened moments earlier?

Even entertaining that possibility is a non-starter and would require a nonsensical view of the real world.

 

[DebinGA]

That will be the basis for his appeal

Followed by the "servant's" bestseller - The Diary of Canned Frank

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Whatever Frank heard or saw and why he is't testifying is all very mysterious it would seem. It's the curious case of the gardener in the nighttime really isn't it. But of all the people involved in this, he is the one probably at the most disadvantage so I feel for him. Not a South African, possibly not as educated as the neighbours, employed by the golden boy of a wealthy, powerful established family, probably questioned from all directions - lots of pressure that could well have been very intimidating.

If anyone really knows what Frank heard and saw it may well be any friends he has on the estate who are also live-in employees. Anyway, hopefully his testimony will not make a difference either way and the guy can live in peace. At least, as someone funnily said earlier, so far OP hasn't blamed him for it.

He is definitely in a difficult position ,particularly if press reports are to be believed and that he is still employed by the Pistorius family .
I would be interested to know if this is true one way or another.
In any event the fact he was on site and yet OP didn't seek his assistance or that of security does make things look very bad for OP because he called Stander first
Which is still quite a bizarre choice to me for someone who allegedly wanted help urgently for Reeva. I could understand it if Stander or his daughter had been doctors.

 

[katydid23]

He was said to have had a suite attached to the kitchen, though I don't think that has been entered into evidence.

That is what we have seen most recently. But I remember back at the start, reading that the 'landscaper' lived in a detached studio apt, like a pool house, in the back yard. And he watched the dogs and was a caretaker of the property.

 

[crasshopper]

Why didn't OP phone this friend first? Curiouser and curiouser.

Maybe 'friend' and not a 'bro?' Not someone who euphamistically would take a bullet for him, 'brothers in the field.'

I think he thought of Devaris as brother like.

 

[james83]

He is definitely in a difficult position ,particularly if press reports are to be believed and that he is still employed by the Pistorius family .
I would be interested to know if this is true one way or another.
In any event the fact he was on site and yet OP didn't seek his assistance or that of security does make things look very bad for OP because he called Stander first
Which is still quite a bizarre choice to me for someone who allegedly wanted help urgently for Reeva. I could understand it if Stander or his daughter had been doctors.

I'm seriously starting to wonder if his sole intention of phoning Stander was because he wanted someone to take Reeva to hospital so he could "sort a few thing's out" whilst he was home alone. IMO.

 

[BritsKate]

That is just awful, what manipulative mind games.
I can't imagine living under those circumstances but it happens everyday. Your description at once gave me chills and made me very, very angry.

We see much the same in their messages and even on the witness stand, there's a very subtle implication had Reeva done this or that, she may not have died that night. It isn't 'normal' for someone who loved their partner and accidentally mistook them for an intruder to subtly suggest they're somehow at fault for a 'mistake' made by the defendant.

I'm pretty confident that for every message we know of, every reference Oscar made on the stand to what Reeva 'should' have done - there are probably dozens of other examples, that are suggestive of emotional abuse, no one has witnessed.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

Well, according to OP's testimony, she was hiding(or had dropped) her cell in the toilet bowl, maybe it needed time to dry out first...

But according to OP, it was still in the bowl when he went into the toilet room. So that makes it seem like it fell in after she was shot.

If she had dropped it accidentally, before being shot, she would have retrieved it already, imo. Especially if OP was telling the truth and she was hiding because she thought there were intruders in the house.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Night folks ,falling asleep now so will catch up in the morning when I will be listening to the next defence witnesses

 

[DebinGA]

I'm seriously starting to wonder if his sole intention of phoning Stander was because he wanted someone to take Reeva to hospital so he could "sort a few thing's out" whilst he was home alone. IMO.

I think testimony was OP begged the Standers to take "her" to the hospital, not "us".

 

[steveml]

This makes me suspect that Frank did indeed hear the whole thing but is too frightened to testify because he knows he will never work again and he knows how many friends in high places OP has (or should I being saying 'had' given the direction of travel?)

He has therefore taken the only way out he can think of which is to claim he slept through the whole thing.

Given he was awake and fully dressed outside the house before Carice and Papa Stander arrived, it seems highly unlikely slept through and heard nothing.

At least we know Frank hasn't been coerced into giving a false testimony.

It benefits him for OP to be acquitted as if OP receives a prison sentence it's likely that his services will no longer be required anyhow.

 

[crowmarsh]

Yes, she most certainly did. She also stated (paraphrasing) that he could lose his balance and liked to have things nearby to stabilize with, eg a walk along a wall.

But then again she is the scorned lover

No, She is one very fortunate young girl

 

[sleuth-d-]

And apparently she either made her way to the toilet in the dark without bothering to switch on a light (even though she knew OP was up and about), or... according to OP, may have used the light from her phone to guide her to the toilet, which makes no sense when she could have just switched on the light! Of course, OP claims that if she did use her phone light, he wouldn't have seen it, because at all times (according to him) he had his back to the bed and only turned towards it to retrieve his gun, which was mysteriously under the bed instead of next to the bed in its usual position, and which conveniently gave him another reason not to notice his 5ft 7" g/friend was not in it.

and even though the empty holster was to be found on the bedside table next to the bed.

 

[katydid23]

Thanks for that info . This must be why the assessor has been enquiring about the alarm . Did he finally confirm that it had actually been set that night . I got a little bored listening to some of OP 's long answers that didn't answer simple questions .

I am certain that at one point in his testimony, OP confirms the alarm was set. He said that he turned it off before going downstairs to open the front door.

Which makes me wonder WHY he bothered to turn it off. Didn't he want to sound an alarm to call for help?

 

[james83]

I am certain that at one point in his testimony, OP confirms the alarm was set. He said that he turned it off before going downstairs to open the front door.

Which makes me wonder WHY he bothered to turn it off. Didn't he want to sound an alarm to call for help?

No because everything was fine.

 

[Val1]

The call to Netcare was at 3:20:05. I don't have the time/length of the call to Stander, however, the call after Netcare was to security at 3:21:33. The Netcare call lasted 66 seconds. So it appears that as soon as OP hung up with Netcare he then dialed the number for security. I would then guess that as soon as he hung up with Stander that he called Netcare, giving him a second or two to hang up and dial the number. So then that would make the call to Stander around 1 minute perhaps.

MOO

lisasalinger has a very good list of most of the calls retrieved from the cell phones for anyone wanting to attempt a timeline of their own.
http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/oscar-pistorius-trial-day-15-state-rests/

 

[crasshopper]

Let's get out of the weeds and take a brief moment to look at what one would have to believe to not find OP a cold-blooded killer:

To believe OP's story one must believe 5 witnesses did not hear a woman actually being attacked and murdered, and instead heard OP making the sounds of a woman being attacked and murdered, just seconds after he actually shot and killed a woman.

rbsm

You would have to believe he got out of bed, walked in his stumps to or onto balcony wordlessly moved two fans in with his back to the room. Mistook wood moving for an intruder gaining entry made his way to his side of the bed, leaned for support, retrieved gun from under said bed all without confirming Reeva was safe and they had a confirmed plan. ( Stay here under the bed until I come back, get the panic putton push it if I yell HELP, etc.

Otherwise I am sticking with the great attachment you provided earlier in the trial. I just wish I could enlarge it without losing resolution.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10466265&postcount=669


Maybe it was just me but I was enjoying the weeds.

 

[nastasya]

He is definitely in a difficult position ,particularly if press reports are to be believed and that he is still employed by the Pistorius family .
I would be interested to know if this is true one way or another.
In any event the fact he was on site and yet OP didn't seek his assistance or that of security does make things look very bad for OP because he called Stander first
Which is still quite a bizarre choice to me for someone who allegedly wanted help urgently for Reeva. I could understand it if Stander or his daughter had been doctors.

I'm going to bet he didn't need to call Frank because he spoke to him in person.

How else would Frank end up out on the street when Standers arrived?

Story gets worse and worse.

 

[Val1]

But according to OP, it was still in the bowl when he went into the toilet room. So that makes it seem like it fell in after she was shot.

If she had dropped it accidentally, before being shot, she would have retrieved it already, imo. Especially if OP was telling the truth and she was hiding because she thought there were intruders in the house.

bbm That's the whole thing, I don't believe most of his testimony... there's the odd nugget of truth I'm sure, but which are which are very hard to determine.