Trial Discussion Thread #35 - 14.05.08 Day 28

[Val1]

BBM

A trial doesn't work like that I'm afraid.

OP's not obliged to speak about anything in the house unless he's asked, and rightly so.

Questioning is part of Nel's job. That's one of the reasons he's getting paid large sums of money each day.

bbm - Compared to what Roux gets paid, who do you think gets paid more? Nel is just another government employee..... maybe his pension is better?

 

[steveml]

Who says it's hearsay?

"Her lawyer, Ian Levitt, told The Independent: "There are witnesses who can confirm this, a reporter sitting behind Kim saw Oscar approach her, and she was horrified. There is no reason reason why my client would lie about this."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...reeva-steenkamps-friend-in-court-9326974.html

I do.

The reporter who is possibly the only one who can be regarded as impartial didn't hear a single word.

The National Prosecuting Authority have rejected the claim and the matter's been put to bed.

 

[aoibhinn]

I think he really did make that comment, b/c really it fits it perfectly with what we know of his personality. I agree with the above assessment.

I also think he checks the blogs/sites/comments, and he is starting to really feel the heat. He went into this thinking he could fool everyone with his acting and lies. He thought he had his whole "story" worked out perfectly.

Agreed.

I've been wondering about the fact that this trial has been televised. I understand Judge Masipa allowed it, more or less at the last minute.

I wonder what were her motivations in this decision?

I doubt OP was prepared for this. He is now on the world stage and, for the most part, being viewed very unfavourably.

Has this public transmission of the trial had any impact on proceedings? Is this the reason the defence has been scrambling and upgrading their evidence up to the last minute? Was it assumed because OP was the 'son of Africa' that he would walk without having to put up a fight?

I've been thinking about this and would love to hear opinions, if it's an interesting discussion topic.

 

[Val1]

OK, but I don't think that the hole in the door was ever mentioned, or was it?

The pics were entered into evidence but other than OP's claim to have "charged through" the bedroom door because the wood was warped or whatever and was hard to open(yea, unlocking the floor latch helps...) so he could carry RS through it, no I don't believe so.

 

[DebinGA]

I believe Ms. Myers, because that sounds exactly like something OP would do. He doesn't recognize or observe the bounds of normal behavior, as such do not apply to him. He's incapable of empathy too, illustrated by the social worker witness who reluctantly admitted OP never expressed his sorrow at killing Reeva but only that her absence was a loss for him. Another example was the NYT article several years where OP took the terrified reporter on a 155 mph ride on a wet road. Hilarious to OP, not so much for the rider. Ditto the shot out the sunroof that not only could have caused DF to wreck the car and kill the people in it, but also an innocent person outside at the time. There are many other examples from just what's been reported, imagine how many OP maniacal episodes we know nothing about?

 

[Viper]

So, if the bullets are not Black Talons (identification of which should be easy, as you say) we can reach three conclusions.

1. Mangena completely screwed up.

or

2. Mangena knew they weren't Black Talons, but the PT went with it anyway because of the dramatic name and adverse public opinion that they correctly predicted would ensue.

3. Both 1 and 2.

No Steve. The Black Talon was one of the first commercially available hollow point bullets. It was designed to do incredible internal damage to human beings. Sometime in the 90s IIRC a maniac shot up an office full of people in San Francisco, killing perhaps 12-16 people with Black Talon hollow point bullets. Another similar incident happened in New York State. There was a public outcry to ban the technology. San Francisco did ban Black Talons, and I believe SA did as well. They were still available to law enforcement. The laws were specific to the exact characteristics that the original Black Talon had, so Winchester and other manufacturers changed simple characteristics to get around the laws.

It seems obvious that the SA law was specific to the original Black Talon too, and the improved Ranger series was/is available to the public there. But since there is a SA law related to the banning of the mother of the black tipped Ranger because it was considered so destructive to the human body and lethal, all hollow point bullets are refered to as Black Talon bullets in SA. Hollow point bullet = Black Talon bullet. If this were not the case Roux would have put a stop to the use of the "term" Black Talon immediately; or am I giving your guy too much credit...

 

[Cymbaline]

I don't know how anyone could believe that the State ballistics expert could completely screw up by not recognizing and researching what the exact type of bullets were left remaining in OPs gun, and what the exact type of the bullets that were removed from Reeva's dead body at her autopsy. Mangena did not make a misidentification of the bullets.

OP used a variant of the Ranger that had an actual black tipped bullet on the top. It was very hard for W to find any of them. That they had the black tip and were the next generation of the Black Talon it appears from W's testimony that gun enthusiasts (and lawmen) still refer to them as Black Talons. OP himself responded to Nel's questions about Black Talon ammunition without the slightest trouble, he never corrected Nel to say that he used Rangers with black bullets on top. He did not have to because the two are interchangeable.

The improved Ranger version of the Black Talon was lighter. But that translates in to increased speed, feet per second (FPS). The talons design was improved to also mushroom with a larger diameter, making them even more lethal and destructive than the first generation.

BBM


Don't forget about Dixon.

Dixon said that two sizes of splinters were created by the black talon ammunition that would have flown out of the door in different directions.

JMO

 

[Gryffindor]

I do.

The reporter who is possibly the only one who can be regarded as impartial didn't hear a single word.

The National Prosecuting Authority have rejected the claim and the matter's been put to bed.

Indeed. Agreed.

 

[Val1]

Just catching up on the trial from today and I've got to say that I'm quite concerned for Aimee, she does appear as though she's cracking up. Carl seems to be in good spirits judging by his tweets lately but I do worry about Aimee. Maybe she is just praying very hard each time I see doesn't look right

Yes, she is the only one from OP's "team" that I was ever concerned about... at least until I heard that she was the one that decided to openly walk back into the crime scene and "steal" RS's handbag(evidence) with Ms.Stander as her accomplice. Someone noted that the day that came to light through Ms.Stander's testimony that it was pretty much the only day of the trial that OP's sister had missed.

 

[katydid23]

I absolutely agree but on this note, just a little something I find so very sad is that, even through Oscar, we've learned so very little of the woman who was supposedly the love of his life. We know he got her birthday wrong, we know about the jealousy issues, we know she forgot to close the balcony doors and he wouldn't have shot her had she said something behind that door. Normally, its SOP for a defence to 'dehumanise' a victim but this defence has claimed they loved one another so one could presume it would be prudent to maybe tell us a bit about the woman he loved? Why he loved her? What she was like? I feel like I got to know Reeva better in a minute of Mike N's testimony than in 5 days of Oscar on the stand.

JMO


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

Oh, and according to OP, we know that 'he knew more' about her contracts than she did, even though she had her legal degree.
Oh, and we 'know' that she threw her jeans on the floor inside out too, Thanks for filling us in, Oscar.

 

[steveml]

bbm - Compared to what Roux gets paid, who do you think gets paid more? Nel is just another government employee..... maybe his pension is better?

I'm not sure, but I'd guess that Roux receives a higher salary.

The government legal profession salaries in SA increase considerably with position and experience, although they generally don't look that high in comparison with my own country (UK). Property is far more affordable in SA though.

I'm sure he'll be fairly comfortable.

 

[soozieqtips]

I do.

The reporter who is possibly the only one who can be regarded as impartial didn't hear a single word.

The National Prosecuting Authority have rejected the claim and the matter's been put to bed.

I'm sure OP will be instructing his lawyers to sue Kim Myers for slander then...

 

[Gryffindor]

Tomorrow. Woolie continues. Wonder if there'll be any others or an earlier than 3pm adjournment . . . . again??

 

[Val1]

Don't you think more likely last, or at very least third, to explain it all as too quick for screams?

I believe it was steveml who gave a pretty good explanation of why there had to have been a bit of a gap after the first shot.... will see if I can find the post.(nvm, I'd rather keep up with current content than spend days reviewing old forums... I do recall it and if I should accidentally come across it again, I'll be sure to bump it.)

 

[fox1lady]

bbm - Compared to what Roux gets paid, who do you think gets paid more? Nel is just another government employee..... maybe his pension is better?

Whatever Roux is getting paid it isn't enough to try and clear the liability up that is Oscar Pistorius!!!

 

[fox1lady]

I do.

The reporter who is possibly the only one who can be regarded as impartial didn't hear a single word.

The National Prosecuting Authority have rejected the claim and the matter's been put to bed.

I doubt it has been put to bed, the NPA have said that there is nothing that they can do but the lawyers can deal with it separate from them. If Kim was a state witness and it had happened then they would definitely have got involved.

 

[steveml]

No Steve. The Black Talon was one of the first commercially available hollow point bullets. It was designed to do incredible internal damage to human beings. Sometime in the 90s IIRC a maniac shot up an office full of people in San Francisco, killing perhaps 12-16 people with Black Talon hollow point bullets. Another similar incident happened in New York State. There was a public outcry to ban the technology. San Francisco did ban Black Talons, and I believe SA did as well. They were still available to law enforcement. The laws were specific to the exact characteristics that the original Black Talon had, so Winchester and other manufacturers changed simple characteristics to get around the laws.

It seems obvious that the SA law was specific to the original Black Talon too, and the improved Ranger series was/is available to the public there. But since there is a SA law related to the banning of the mother of the black tipped Ranger because it was considered so destructive to the human body and lethal, all hollow point bullets are refered to as Black Talon bullets in SA. Hollow point bullet = Black Talon bullet. If this were not the case Roux would have put a stop to the use of the "term" Black Talon immediately; or am I giving your guy too much credit...

I'm afraid unless you can provide a source for your findings that these are commonly called Black Talon, I disagree entirely. Have a look on the gun forums - the South African's talk about 'Ranger' bullets the same as we do, and use the name 'Ranger'. You go in a shop to buy some hollow-points, you ask for the brand you require. If you want Ranger that's what you ask for. There is absolutely no confusion.

The technology hasn't changed, Winchester removed the Black Talon from sale and undertook a re-branding exercise due to bad press. I really don't know where your information has come from.

I've explained this before, but just to reiterate - Winchester's Ranger SXT line of ammunition is of the same basic design as Black Talon. If you are unlucky enough to get shot by a police officer in New York and many other states, the chances are that the bullet used will be a Ranger SXT or similar (hollow-point).

I hope we can put this to bed now and it doesn't drag on like our text message evidence saga did.

 

[G.bng]

BIB. You seemed to have overlooked my prior post regarding that discussion. The casings are indicative of where OP was, one was ejected out of the bathroom and in to the carpeted hallway, the other three were ejected in to the bathroom. But the trajectory rods show that he was moving from left to right as he fired. He could not do that if he was standing in just one spot at the tiled entry point of the bathroom, on his stumps while holding himself up against the wall with his left hand.

Mangena had no idea what OP would describe about how he murdered Reeva. I'm hopeful that Nel will question W about this. And or alternatively Mangena will be recalled if the State reopens its case.

I read your prior post but relating it with this one seems to me to make the set up even worse. Now we have an unsteady OP on stumps darting from left to right shooting at the door with the casings falling, bouncing and rolling on the tiled floor around him (would have to be pretty quick boxer type darts for him to fit between them at least 3 rapid shots as per Burger), to then go twice or thrice toing and froing between bathroom and bedroom, first on stumps, then on prosthesis, neither the most stable and delicate of footwear to nimbly step around spent bullet casings so as to preserve the scene of where the bullets rolled, bounced or were kicked to for the ballistics expert, then bending, sitting, kneeling and sliding Reeva out of into the bathroom from where with difficulty he picks her up from the now blood slippery floor so as to carry her out most likely without being able to see his feet let alone the casings scattered around. And to top it all then enter the several police to mill around the scene one apparently even leaving his bloody footprint on the door panel... and you still expect, hope, whatever, the casings to be where they first hit the ground... really and truly ?!

And as I wrote, there are studies demonstrating the unreliability of casings to determine a shooter's position which can only be less reliable in such a busy scenario... at least I think we can agree this wasn't exactly the quiet depository room from where LHO shot JFK!

So if Mangena is recalled, and it will be interesting for sure albeit I wouldn't hold my breath, IMO Nel won't even bother to ask him about the casings since Mangena already denied their usefulness, not because he was unaware from which exact position OP fired all or each shot, but because according to him they could have been "kicked around", which is my best bet of what happened and what IMO Mangena will repeat if Nel were to ask about them on a second innings. But then I am not a ballistics expert. ;-)

 

[Hatfield]

RBBM

No, no, no, IB! Not during a trial! Here's what you do:

1. Come up with a good hiding spot no one knows about.
2. Watch trial, listen to commentary, read posts at your leisure. To do this: send hubby and kids on errands that absolutely cannot wait if need be. Yes, you really do need to know how much postage to Tanzania will run you for a package in several sizes, both grams and ounces...now. Right now.
3. During teabreaks and lunch do anything you absolutely cannot avoid. Usually only the most urgent (think life or death) matters need apply.
4. An hour or so before hubby and kids are due to return order in Chinese.
5. Lightly mist an all-purpose cleaner into the air in each room.
6. Toss all clutter into a basket. Hell. even a few dirty dishes if need be. Stash basket in spot referenced in No. 1.
7. Get dressed if you're still in trial-watching PJs.
8. Scoop all the Chinese which should have arrived by now into a big casserole dish. Voila! You spent hours creating a chinese casserole recipe from scratch.
9. Now's a good time to make it appear you've been slaving away at laundry. Take clean clothes and pile them up high. Make sure they're ones from the backs of closets and drawers so no one's the wiser. Load the washer and run the dryer for a few minutes - make sure you add a dryer sheet or two to suggest the smell of fresh laundry.
10. Lightly wet the front of your hair. If you really want to go OTT grab a spray bottle of water and lightly mist your underarm area. How sweaty you want to appear is totally subjective, ya know.
11. Run vacuum for 5 minutes before hubby is due in - lines are extremely important! When hubby enters, switch off the vacuum, and collapse in the seat nearest the door with a big (and innocent) grin on your face.

Or...you could just play sick. Trialitis gets even the best of us.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

This really cracked me up so thanks for sharing your tips.

Here is another important one.

When at your laptop or PC watching trial be sure to have another application up that looks important like a Spreadsheet with a bunch of figures in it or last year's taxes or something.

Then when you hear footsteps coming your way, just quickly minimize your trial screen and flip over to the "important work" you are doing.

Just be sure you hear those footsteps coming.

I may have to move my driveway motion detector to my hallway. :floorlaugh:

 

[soozieqtips]

bbm - Compared to what Roux gets paid, who do you think gets paid more? Nel is just another government employee..... maybe his pension is better?

Roux gets paid almost £6000 a day!! No way does a state prosecutor earn anything like that.

So if Nel is 'well paid' - what does that make Roux?!

On the other hand National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) spokesperson, Nathi Mncubu said the state’s prosecution team for the Pistorius case, Gerrie Nel and Andrea Johnson, work for the NPA and earn a fixed monthly salary. Grant said:
“I can’t imagine it would be anywhere near what the private practitioners are earning.”

http://thenewage.co.za/120275-1007-53-Oscars_legal_fees_to_cost_in_the_millions