MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #7

[Sasquatch321]

These photos show the (DR) driveway from above and a close-up, it just looks more like dirt to me. We have a gravel driveway, and it has much more small rocks than what are shown here.

Crime Scene from above - credit to St. Cloud daily Times staff.



http://www.deadzoom.com/member/samiping/Wetterling_Crime_Scene_Aerial_View.jpg

Dug-in footprint

http://www.deadzoom.com/member/samiping/footprints.jpg

That driveway does appear to be more dirt than gravel, look how defined and dug in the tire tracks and footprints are. This picture tells me that all tire tracks were easily accounted for, especially after Kevin came forward. Which is why since 2003 there hasn't been a shred of information about an outside suspect from LE.

 

[Sasquatch321]

A thought just flashed through my mind, the words "don't look back or I'll shoot"

"Don't look back or I'll shoot."

This is key, this is so key.

Think about this, why doesn't he want them to look back? So that they can't see a vehicle? or so that they can't see him go with Jacob all the way into the farm?

Remember now its nighttime, a very dark night at that. Why would the abductor really be concerned about them looking back when the risk of the farmer or someone else seeing the vehicle was just as likely. I mean cmon now if this doesn't make you pause for a second, I don't know what will.

The kids did look back, at probably about the perfect time a vehicle would have been taking off. No headlights seen, no sound heard, just the quietness of a rural country road. Even a brand new vehicle in 1989 would have been an engine that made noise you could hear. I would assume a child abductor would be driving something 5 t0 10 years prior to 1989, making it even louder. Lets put it simple, after 2003, no vehicle in play.

 

[Ifollowthis]

The drive way looks like fresh gravel to me, the Rassiers have a gravel pit. There is no way that milk trucks picking up milk could navigate a dirt road when there is rain or snow, they are too heavy. . Gravel comes in all shade of grey and tan colors. I grew up on a farm, dragging foot prints would have looked just like that if had not been too may weeks since the gravel was put down. Gravel on drive ways is usually just spread out with farm equipment such as an old drag and not packed with road construction equipment but packed down over time with vehicles driving over it. They probably spread gravel twice a year.

 

[human]

I live on dirt road. Class Five is put on it once every few YEARS. Otherwise, all that is done is that it is graded a couple times a summer. This is a road for all traffic, though not much.

Depends on what kind of soil they have there,

That farm has been there forever. Soil eventually compacts,,

 

[HEY YOU!]

I'm probably one of the few people here who doesn't think DR is involved (at least not directly). I still strongly lean towards a vehicle being at or near the scene. The boys may not have seen or heard a vehicle, but it was dark out, and once the boys realized what kind of situation they were in, I wouldn't expect them to notice anything else going on around them.

I'm also on the fence about Kevin's tire tracks. If I'm understanding it correctly, Kevin came forward and told them the tracks were his. How did they verify the tracks were his? By Kevin's word only? I don't necessarily doubt that he drove up the driveway, but I'd have more faith that they were his tracks if they were actually able to compare his tire tracks from the vehicle he was driving at the time to the tracks that were in question on the driveway. However, this doesn't seem like much of a possibility if he no longer had possession of the vehicle and/or tires by the time he came forward.

Also, if those tracks belonged to DR (as this has been suggested here on WS), wouldn't they have been able to identify the vehicle?

Regardless if the tracks were made by Kevin's vehicle, DR's vehicle, or someone else's vehicle, Jacob's prints and scent ended next to them and his toe dug into the dirt. In my opinion, Jacob was taken away in a vehicle. I have a hard time believing Jacob is on the farm. I'm not even convinced that he's no longer alive. We've seen numerous long term missing children come home in the last few years. I know it's still probably a small percentage, but I don't think it's impossible for Jacob, especially since they have no evidence indicating otherwise.

Let's not forget that the scene did not seem to be completely secured immediately afterwards, either. My personal opinion on why that seems to be the case is that everyone was just expecting to find Jacob immediately and didn't think this was going to be a long term case. Twenty-five years later and still no answers. Who could have possibly imagined?

All tire tracks have now been accounted for since Kevin came forward. He must have provided them with proof or he would immediately have been considered a suspect. The case for a car being on the scene is due to the dogs losing the scent near where Jacob's last footprint dug into the dirt. I believe that it could be because DR drove his own car down the very end of his driveway and turned his car around to where it was unseen by the boys and closer to the Rassier house. He could have knocked Jacob out and put him in the car and drove right into his outbuilding. Have also wondered if he could have just rolled down that incline without turning car on. (Maybe he used to do that when he was a teenage driver coming in late so it was familiar)
Or he could have been carrying Jacob when Jacob tried to jump down and he left that last footprint...looks pretty deep so I'd say it is possible. I haven't heard of the abductor's footprints being found so either they are DRs and are all over the place anyway since he lives there or the abductor shuffle walked to obliterate the evidence but missed Jacob's last print because he panicked trying to keep hold of him.

Also, since you lean away from DR being the guy who did this then how do you explain his lack of interest in showing any outreaching to the Wetterling family? Their 11 year old son was abducted from 40 ft up his driveway, why has he never gone over there to offer his help, his sympathy, a casserole, a hug, a phone call or even a note? Why is that? Unusual behavior from a teacher and a guy who has recently tried to clear his name in the media but never approached the Wetterlings...Patty approached him. What are your feelings on that?

I feel like DR may have been sexually abused as a little boy by one of the many pedophiles who seem to be a part of that area. Perhaps even a trusted priest since his family is very church centered. Being a little boy and having a trusted adult rape you changes your very soul. Maybe that is the reason why he still lives at home to this day? He feels safe at that farm with his parents. Maybe he couldn't help the feelings that he had every time he saw those boys coming down the street in the daytime and had been fantasizing about what he would do if he were to get one alone? Certainly something that we hear happens when a child is abducted, raped and killed is we hear the perpetrator was abused as a child. I feel like if this is the case, he should come clean and get some help. Do 1 more meaningful thing and give the Wetterling family some peace.

All my own opinion of course.

 

[KeepHopeAlive]

Also, since you lean away from DR being the guy who did this then how do you explain his lack of interest in showing any outreaching to the Wetterling family? Their 11 year old son was abducted from 40 ft up his driveway, why has he never gone over there to offer his help, his sympathy, a casserole, a hug, a phone call or even a note? Why is that? Unusual behavior from a teacher and a guy who has recently tried to clear his name in the media but never approached the Wetterlings...Patty approached him. What are your feelings on that?

I've stated my opinion on that a little while back. I don't know what thread or post number it's in. DR not reaching out to the Wetterling's doesn't mean anything. He's not obligated to do so. No one is. Maybe he had a reason, maybe he didn't. Some people would reach out directly to the family, some people wouldn't. Unfortunately, it seems to be the consensus that if you don't reach out to strangers (regardless if they are your neighbors) then there's something wrong with you. That's not true at all. It just doesn't come naturally to everyone.

I'm not trying to defend DR, but I don't want to accuse someone of something because they're not doing something that would be considered "normal" by other people's standards.

 

[human]

i think being a teacher and havng a child abducted in your driveway means you act like the grown up yu are supposed to be.

 

[human]

You just proved my point about other people standards. I'm not going to go back and forth about this with anyone. That's not why I'm here. I was just asked a question and I answered it.

Um, you are not the only one on here.

So,I feel I am entitled to an opinion and can express it, just as you are entitled to your opinion and can express it.

 

[Trino]

I would almost compare it to the Bible, Trino. Old testament vs new Testament. For 14 years we did investigate those other leads, they are now the old testament. Since 2003 there has been all but one person we've been looking at, this is now the new testament. Which one will you decide to follow? Or will you just follow both?

I don't think for one minute that if LE had enough evidence that DR would not be charged. He would be sitting in jail.

I don't see this a biblical at all. There have been plenty of cases where what LE THOUGHT was correct was completely wrong. Case in point: Elizabeth Smart. Was that old and new testament, too?

What about the abducted boy? That has never been solved.

 

[Trino]

More from this article

They’ll follow the case very closely and keep newspaper clips of their crimes. This is helpful to the investigator — something you want to look for when you initiate a search warrant.

Assassins are notorious for keeping news clips. Assassin-type personalities will also keep diaries. The disorganized type of criminal — that’s the asocial type, the loners, the weird — will keep diaries because they have trouble communicating with others so they feel much more comfortable writing out their thoughts, plans, goals or fantasies. Sirhan Sirhan, who gunned down Sen. Robert F. Kennedy, and Arthur Bremer, the would-be assassin who shot and paralyzed Alabama’s then-Gov. George Wallace, kept diaries describing the fantasies they wanted to act out.

Do you recall the WI man who LE thought might be connected to the case? He died. However, he had all sorts of photos of J's case. I'm really not so sure he wasn't involved. Milwaukee police said that despite the pornographic drawings of young boys, drawings of nude children, books on cannibalism, children's shoes and tufts of hair found, there was no evidence to suggest he was linked to the Wetterling case or any other crimes involving children in the country. He also had posters and photos of Jacob and maps of St. Joseph.

 

[human]

Do you recall the WI man who LE thought might be connected to the case? He died. However, he had all sorts of photos of J's case. I'm really not so sure he wasn't involved. Milwaukee police said that despite the pornographic drawings of young boys, drawings of nude children, books on cannibalism, children's shoes and tufts of hair found, there was no evidence to suggest he was linked to the Wetterling case or any other crimes involving children in the country. He also had posters and photos of Jacob and maps of St. Joseph.

True. But DR was so uninterested.

it was a total surprise to me that he had scrapbooks about the case.

And he has advice for LE.

Does anyone have any explanation on why there is no indication that LE is not interested in any other cars? At least two, is it that he saw. One screaming up the driveway. Where are those tracks?

And really, no one could drive over tracks.

 

[cGorg]

These photos show the (DR) driveway from above and a close-up, it just looks more like dirt to me. We have a gravel driveway, and it has much more small rocks than what are shown here.

Crime Scene from above - credit to St. Cloud daily Times staff.



http://www.deadzoom.com/member/samiping/Wetterling_Crime_Scene_Aerial_View.jpg

Dug-in footprint

http://www.deadzoom.com/member/samiping/footprints.jpg

shergal...is the pic of the footprints available anywhere with more clarity? Is that photo a screenshot of a video? ELOCsoul mentioned this a long while ago....the shadowlines are indicative of the time of day and sun angles. Based upon that I'm wondering which direction the footprints are actually facing? The other thing I'm wondering about is if this pic is indeed the footprints that Detective Steve Mund is spraying in that 1989 picture....

 

[cGorg]

I think I might have answered my own question. The St Autumn site has the same picture but the written description is in the same 'reporter artistic license' fashion(although I'll bet this was a video originally). It states the footprints were on the driveway by where the man had been standing. Well that would be immediately adjacent(East) of the pavement and not 40 yards to the east where the dogs lost Jacob's scent. Interestingly enough, the picture below the footprint picture shows a paved road heading south to the Wetterling's neighborhood and the Rassier driveway clearly a gravel road with a cornfield to the south. Hard to tell if the ditches are navigable though. The conditions appear moderately dry to dry.

 

[cGorg]

I'm probably one of the few people here who doesn't think DR is involved (at least not directly). I still strongly lean towards a vehicle being at or near the scene. The boys may not have seen or heard a vehicle, but it was dark out, and once the boys realized what kind of situation they were in, I wouldn't expect them to notice anything else going on around them.

I'm also on the fence about Kevin's tire tracks. If I'm understanding it correctly, Kevin came forward and told them the tracks were his. How did they verify the tracks were his? By Kevin's word only? I don't necessarily doubt that he drove up the driveway, but I'd have more faith that they were his tracks if they were actually able to compare his tire tracks from the vehicle he was driving at the time to the tracks that were in question on the driveway. However, this doesn't seem like much of a possibility if he no longer had possession of the vehicle and/or tires by the time he came forward.

Also, if those tracks belonged to DR (as this has been suggested here on WS), wouldn't they have been able to identify the vehicle?

Regardless if the tracks were made by Kevin's vehicle, DR's vehicle, or someone else's vehicle, Jacob's prints and scent ended next to them and his toe dug into the dirt. In my opinion, Jacob was taken away in a vehicle. I have a hard time believing Jacob is on the farm. I'm not even convinced that he's no longer alive. We've seen numerous long term missing children come home in the last few years. I know it's still probably a small percentage, but I don't think it's impossible for Jacob, especially since they have no evidence indicating otherwise.

Let's not forget that the scene did not seem to be completely secured immediately afterwards, either. My personal opinion on why that seems to be the case is that everyone was just expecting to find Jacob immediately and didn't think this was going to be a long term case. Twenty-five years later and still no answers. Who could have possibly imagined?

I understand your point of view. And it's hard to be a contrarian. Being a middle child I am a 'fence sitter'...waiting for that weighted piece of information that will tip the scales towards the guilty party. DR being the named POI and with so much circumstantial evidence against him, is easy prey. Yet it may be that he is ultimately the guilty party. But there are very many extraneous pieces of information regarding this case that also need to be considered. As per F. Scott Fitzgerald: "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function."

 

[cGorg]

retreiving post #1011, Thread #5 from ELOCsoul

Kevin On the Driveway

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I'm going through old articles for the umpteenth time and came across a subtle bit of information that supports the statements from Kevin that he drove up DR's driveway to turn around, and not just turn in and back out.

In the October 24, 1989 St Cloud Times, an article states that "A detective made plaster prints of tennis shoe treads and tire tracks found about 40 yards from the spot where the abduction occurred."
Then a bit later in the story:

"A bloodhound from the Minneapolis police department led officers to the tire tracks, confirming their hunch that the man had a car nearby."
I'm just wondering how this ties into the footprint picture and is this Steve Mund?

 

[ELOCsoul]

retreiving post #1011, Thread #5 from ELOCsoul

Kevin On the Driveway

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm going through old articles for the umpteenth time and came across a subtle bit of information that supports the statements from Kevin that he drove up DR's driveway to turn around, and not just turn in and back out.

In the October 24, 1989 St Cloud Times, an article states that "A detective made plaster prints of tennis shoe treads and tire tracks found about 40 yards from the spot where the abduction occurred."
Then a bit later in the story:

"A bloodhound from the Minneapolis police department led officers to the tire tracks, confirming their hunch that the man had a car nearby."
I'm just wondering how this ties into the footprint picture and is this Steve Mund?

Thinking about this some more. The tire tracks by the footprints most likely indicated that the car was traveling by the footprints. In other words, the car would not have been parked at that spot. The reason I say this is, if the car would have been parked there, there would have been some indication in the tracks of the car starting out. If starting from a dead stop, there would have been some slippage of the tires in the dirt. Apparently investigators did not see any sign of slippage in the tire prints.

So that, coupled with Dan Rassier's eyewitness account of seeing a car with another person in it turn around in his driveway, would have led LE to conclude that the abduction was by car, and that the driver drove all the way into the DR property AFTER taking Jacob.

Once that car was identified (Kevin) in 2003 - it changed the whole theory of the crime. Again - it's all about the cars. If Dan Rassier truly did report (in 1989) two other cars in his driveway that day / night - then he is probably innocent. If he didn't report that right away, then he is probably guilty of the crime, or of covering it up.

That being said - there is nothing (other than Dan's word) to support the notion that he reported multiple cars back in 1989.

 

[ELOCsoul]

I think I might have answered my own question. The St Autumn site has the same picture but the written description is in the same 'reporter artistic license' fashion(although I'll bet this was a video originally). It states the footprints were on the driveway by where the man had been standing. Well that would be immediately adjacent(East) of the pavement and not 40 yards to the east where the dogs lost Jacob's scent. Interestingly enough, the picture below the footprint picture shows a paved road heading south to the Wetterling's neighborhood and the Rassier driveway clearly a gravel road with a cornfield to the south. Hard to tell if the ditches are navigable though. The conditions appear moderately dry to dry.

Not necessarily - it all depends on how you perceive the words. Is the author saying the footprints were by where the man had beens standing? Or, are they saying the footprints were in the same driveway where the man had been standing. I'm guessing they meant the latter.

 

[KeepHopeAlive]

Thinking about this some more. The tire tracks by the footprints most likely indicated that the car was traveling by the footprints. In other words, the car would not have been parked at that spot. The reason I say this is, if the car would have been parked there, there would have been some indication in the tracks of the car starting out. If starting from a dead stop, there would have been some slippage of the tires in the dirt. Apparently investigators did not see any sign of slippage in the tire prints.

So that, coupled with Dan Rassier's eyewitness account of seeing a car with another person in it turn around in his driveway, would have led LE to conclude that the abduction was by car, and that the driver drove all the way into the DR property AFTER taking Jacob.

Once that car was identified (Kevin) in 2003 - it changed the whole theory of the crime. Again - it's all about the cars. If Dan Rassier truly did report (in 1989) two other cars in his driveway that day / night - then he is probably innocent. If he didn't report that right away, then he is probably guilty of the crime, or of covering it up.

That being said - there is nothing to support the notion that he reported multiple cars back in 1989.

Good insight. That did not occur to me. But how do we explain the dogs losing his scent, other than dogs are not necessarily 100% reliable?

Also, this just came to me. I haven't had time to think it through, but I'm going to put it out there anyway. I wonder if a car could was parked on the main road (16th?) just on the other side of the driveway AFTER the boys had gotten to store (so they would not have passed it on the way to the store, and they would not have noticed it on the way there or the way back). Could someone have pulled into the driveway (assuming that there were two or more people involved) once the two boys started running and were safely out of sight? Then the driver could have pulled into the driveway to pick up the abductor and Jacob? I wonder if there were any tracks at the very end of the driveway indicating which way a vehicle drove in and out. The idea might be a stretch, but I thought I'd put it out there anyway.

 

[HEY YOU!]

I've stated my opinion on that a little while back. I don't know what thread or post number it's in. DR not reaching out to the Wetterling's doesn't mean anything. He's not obligated to do so. No one is. Maybe he had a reason, maybe he didn't. Some people would reach out directly to the family, some people wouldn't. Unfortunately, it seems to be the consensus that if you don't reach out to strangers (regardless if they are your neighbors) then there's something wrong with you. That's not true at all. It just doesn't come naturally to everyone.

I'm not trying to defend DR, but I don't want to accuse someone of something because they're not doing something that would be considered "normal" by other people's standards.

You are defending him. And if this guy was always this way, maybe I can see your point. But he has been going to the media to try to 'clear his name' and has been in the very public eye in doing so. The normal, 'don't want to get involved, shy, quiet, hermit-like guy would be believable only if he stayed that way. The fact that he feels the need to be so out in the open now without contacting any of the Wetterlings regarding the case and his innocence before he does these public interviews and comments on blogs shows that he is NOT the shy, quiet, don't want to get involved guy...he is involved in getting his name cleared, why not clear his name first with the Wetterlings?

 

[HEY YOU!]

Thinking about this some more. The tire tracks by the footprints most likely indicated that the car was traveling by the footprints. In other words, the car would not have been parked at that spot. The reason I say this is, if the car would have been parked there, there would have been some indication in the tracks of the car starting out. If starting from a dead stop, there would have been some slippage of the tires in the dirt. Apparently investigators did not see any sign of slippage in the tire prints.

So that, coupled with Dan Rassier's eyewitness account of seeing a car with another person in it turn around in his driveway, would have led LE to conclude that the abduction was by car, and that the driver drove all the way into the DR property AFTER taking Jacob.

Once that car was identified (Kevin) in 2003 - it changed the whole theory of the crime. Again - it's all about the cars. If Dan Rassier truly did report (in 1989) two other cars in his driveway that day / night - then he is probably innocent. If he didn't report that right away, then he is probably guilty of the crime, or of covering it up.

That being said - there is nothing (other than Dan's word) to support the notion that he reported multiple cars back in 1989.

The fact that DR reported ANY cars that don't match the time/description of Kevin's car means he is lying. There were NO other unidentified tire tracks in that driveway and no way Kevin could have driven over the exact same route as any other car.