Judge's Order re: OP's Mental Health Eval

[JudgeJudi]

Good evening from Sydney, Australia. It's now 8:10pm and I've just caught up. It's going to be most interesting to hear Masipa's decision tomorrow. She'll certainly have all of us here as a captive audience.

 

[BatGunKick]

Originally posted by PatCee
You can see the video, part referred to at about 1.24 at the end of Wolmaran's testimony. I've just this second had a look. It's Day 29.

http://new.livestream.com/wildabouttrial/events/2811169

Thanks! Still makes me smile to see the faux pax caught on tape!

 

[jay-jay]

I wonder if it really happened.. .. the abnormal thing about it is, that Oscar thought it was quite normal to drop this little tale of what he thinks is normal conversation, normal wherein he really thinks he is displaying himself as Oscar The Great White Do-Gooder. But the listener to that story was struck by the oddness of it, its place in context and its absence of meaning.

Probably Oscar bigging himself up again. As he genuinely thinks he does, .. like the washing machine story.. All these stories take place without a skerrick of verification.

It does make you wonder, doesn't it .. it's probably just him being a pathological liar again. My ex was just like that, he used to come out with all sorts of nonsense in order to big himself up .. stories about beating people up, and putting knives up at their throat .. and even those same types of stories about killing animals as OP with the dog story, in order to 1) show how big, tough and scary he was and 2) to show how 'compassionate' he was (he told me two stories, one about stamping on a dying blackbird's head to hasten it's demise, and the other was about when he ran a cat over and then reversed back over it to finish the job off <<-- does that sound familiar??!). He used to tell me all this stuff, as I said, mainly to instill a sense of fear in me but also to confuse me by also trying to make it sound like an act of compassion .. and actually, I don't believe any of it because he used to lie about all sorts of other things which I was able to prove were lies, so there is no reason to believe this other stuff was true either. I believe that OP is very much like this, too. JMO

 

[Cherwell]

BBM - And let's not forget he was "saddened" when he discovered he'd blown Reeva's brains out.

Yep .. now if you think of what Bob Geldolf said just after the death of his daughter Peaches a few weeks ago "We are beyond grief" .. there is quite a difference. I know that not everyone is so good with words, but 'saddened' is really quite stunning.

"Saddened" is the go-to word about a public tragedy or the death of someone you don't actually know. It's like "I'm sorry to hear this and I wish it hadn't happened, but it won't affect me personally in my day-to-day life".

 

[Cherwell]

.. once again, I think this is one of those really quite distasteful things that he did, but in his own mind he did it to 'help' the dog. He had run it over in the first place, but how many of us could just go out and shot an animal dead like that in order to 'help' it? We would be more likely to try and rush it straight to a vet. It might well be the case that 'putting it out of it's misery' there and then is more kind from the perspective of the animal itself, but it's not a normal human reaction (imo).

ETA: .. forgot to say that all of this was done in front of the dog owner, and without their consent, apparently.

It's the fact that he apparently ignored the owner of the dog that makes this story so unpleasant. Hits dog, shoots it, speeds off, all without a word to the owner.

Now if the dog was definitely beyond veterinary help, it was probably the kindest thing to do, but the complete lack of sympathy with the owner is unpleasant. If that was my dog I would be devastated, but having some unfeeling **** behave like that would make it even more upsetting. Did it really happen? Don't know, but the fact that he apparently told people this story speaks volumes.

Just an excuse for Pistorius to shoot at a real living creature and kill it. I bet he got a cheap thrill out of it.

 

[emirates1957]

It does make you wonder, doesn't it .. it's probably just him being a pathological liar again. My ex was just like that, he used to come out with all sorts of nonsense in order to big himself up .. stories about beating people up, and putting knives up at their throat .. and even those same types of stories about killing animals as OP with the dog story, in order to 1) show how big, tough and scary he was and 2) to show how 'compassionate' he was (he told me two stories, one about stamping on a dying blackbird's head to hasten it's demise, and the other was about when he ran a cat over and then reversed back over it to finish the job off <<-- does that sound familiar??!). He used to tell me all this stuff, as I said, mainly to instill a sense of fear in me but also to confuse me by also trying to make it sound like an act of compassion .. and actually, I don't believe any of it because he used to lie about all sorts of other things which I was able to prove were lies, so there is no reason to believe this other stuff was true either. I believe that OP is very much like this, too. JMO

Whilst I cannot acknowledge the emotions of OP and his actions. I do understand what you are saying. My mum had all of my 6 animals disposed off. I had no idea as to what happened to them until 40 years later. Reading the above about the abuse of animals makes me feel sick to the core.

 

[JudgeJudi]

OP comes across very child like imo, probably why they support him, he's too itty-bitty cute to murder anyone. jmo :banghead:

He may have looked cute years ago but the man I see in Court now looks positively evil a lot of the time. He reminds me of Dorian Gray. Here are a few quotes from The Picture of Dorian Gray - author Oscar Wilde.

“A man can be happy with any woman as long as he does not love her.”

“She is very clever, too clever for a woman. She lacks the indefinable charm of weakness.”

“One can always be kind to people about whom one cares nothing.”

“Sin is a thing that writes itself across a man's face. It cannot be concealed.”

And finally, Oscar Wilde could have written this especially for Nel:

“You know more than you think you know, just as you know less than you want to know.”

 

[BatGunKick]

I wonder if it really happened.. .. the abnormal thing about it is, that Oscar thought it was quite normal to drop this little tale of what he thinks is normal conversation, normal wherein he really thinks he is displaying himself as Oscar The Great White Do-Gooder. But the listener to that story was struck by the oddness of it, its place in context and its absence of meaning.

Probably Oscar bigging himself up again. As he genuinely thinks he does, .. like the washing machine story.. All these stories take place without a skerrick of verification.

Morning, :seeyar evening, lol.
well ..well..well... OP is going to really have a hard time then in the evaluation, these "oddities" are not easy to hide... imho he can't hold the facade of normal for long. He's got too many traits in his personality to 'manage' :juggle: - and what i love most is he seems to really believe he is smarter than the system, which in itself means he is going to get into hot water, very quickly.

Tomorrow should be interesting, just to watch his reaction.

 

[CriLondon]

He was mortified , alrighty.. Mortified that he was on the receiving end of a justified accusation and investigation by the one organisation he had such contempt for, the SAPS.. mortified that his private life was exposed, mortified that he was in such deep *advertiser censored* that Henke would turn his back on him again , mortified that Arthur would have to stump up funds, after chipping in for Carl, mortified among his gun totin' shootin' friends that he had made a murdering blithering idiot of himself yet again with a gun, mortified that the enemy, W.O. Botha was wandering thru his house at will, shouting orders at him, mortified that he would actually have to account for his actions in a court of law, because up until then, it was Oscar who took people and organisations to court, ( Caassidy Merony-Taylor, the SA Olympic commiitte, the World Olympic Committee, etc )and trounced them and now .. he is in the mortifying position of being on the rough end of the pineapple..

Morning all from a very sunny London!

bbm - I guess I'll never stop learning English expressions LOL

Have a good day everybody , feeling a bit edgy over here , waiting for tomorrow. Crucial day behind the scenes today for PT & DT setting up the terms of the referral , i would imagine .

 

[kittychi]

no one has testified to seeing that apparition ,Prime.. Dr Stipps, when he came in the door, testified to seeing Oscar with his fingers down Reeva's throat, his left hand on her shattered groin..' Dr Stipp said he may have thought he was doing some sort of rescusitation act, but it was too late. Reeva had been dead for some minutes, according to Dr Stipp, at that time.

Reeva had in her teeth clenched on Oscars fingers. Dr Stipp had to do a medical manoeuvre that released him from her grip.

At which point, he stood up, still wailing to God etc, and zipped upstairs alone for a few minutes.. Dr Stipp was so concerned by this, he asked Standar where the gun was.. he thought Oscar might be gone to off himself with the gun. Standar said the gun was being held in a safe place.. This was either a lie or a mistake, because , in fact, the gun was still loaded , cocked , unlocked and ready to fire still on the bathroom floor.

BBM - If I were OP at this point, I would wish I had offed myself then, knowing what horrors lie ahead in a SA prison.

In my mind, he can still redeem himself as a halfway decent human being, at least in death, by offing himself now and leaving a suicide note that details the full truth of what happened that very early Valentine's Day morning.

However, IMO he is still in denial that he can really be punished for what he did, feels he is entitled to get away with it and still thinks he will.

IMO it will be a "poor me" and "poor Oscar" pity party for the rest of his life that he, himself, destroyed.

verreaction:

 

[BatGunKick]

He may have looked cute years ago but the man I see in Court now looks positively evil a lot of the time. He reminds me of Dorian Gray. Here are a few quotes from The Picture of Dorian Gray - author Oscar Wilde.

“A man can be happy with any woman as long as he does not love her.”

“She is very clever, too clever for a woman. She lacks the indefinable charm of weakness.”

“One can always be kind to people about whom one cares nothing.”

“Sin is a thing that writes itself across a man's face. It cannot be concealed.”

And finally, Oscar Wilde could have written this especially for Nel:

“You know more than you think you know, just as you know less than you want to know.”

NICE. I will add on to this picture of OP's feelings for Reeva as i think you've been very insightful above. I remember it striking me as odd that OP seemed less interested in Valentine's Day that eve - no plans spoke of for the following day, he mentions the gift she got him (again all about him). Pure speculation of course, but he strikes me as the type of guy who wouldn't care if she had threatened to leave him - he would have thought a million girls were ready to take Reeva's place. So I don't feel she was packing to leave him, but rather as a result of OP becoming increasingly angry and volatile about something, screaming "get the f out of my house"...

Oscar is the type to worry about his rep, his image, his fans.. and so the only motive for doing what he did, was self-serving and purely trying to keep up the facade that he was a 'golden boy'. This is what I'm hoping will come through the psyche evaluation: his extreme need to remain on top and in control at all costs.

 

[BatGunKick]

Woke up to these articles in SA today regarding mental testing of OP:

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/oscar-to-hear-mental-test-details-1.1690211#.U3nj48dZGgQ

http://www.iol.co.za/capeargus/letter-oscar-tests-a-futile-exercise-1.1688971#.U3nqhcdZGgQ

If anyone was likely to suffer from GAD it would have been Reeva due to the hoops he made her jump through and her admitted fear of him.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Someone else was inside Oscar Pistorius' home in Pretoria, South Africa, the night the athlete shot his girlfriend to death -- his longtime housekeeper, Frank Chiziweni.

Chiziweni was sleeping in his room off from Pistorius’ kitchen on Valentine’s Day 2013. His presence was revealed in court Monday, when a neighbor testified that Chiziweni greeted her at the home. In the 16 months since the shooting, it was believed that only Pistorius and victim Reeva Steenkamp were in the residence.

The defense and prosecution have declined to call Chiziweni, a Malawian, to the stand. They believe he wouldn’t have said anything. Following the shooting, he told police that he “heard nothing” that night, sleeping through what witnesses who lived 200 yards away described as “bloodcurdling” screams.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/pistorius-housekeeper-inside-home-shooting/story?id=23602899

This revelation about Frank still irks me. Not only because he was there and heard nothing :silenced: but another thing, was OP ever fearful of noises made by Frank in the middle of the night or was he barred from leaving his room after nightfall? Why was Reeva shot, but not Frank? (sorry Frank :therethere
If this was a movie, it has too many plot holes to be plausible.

:waitasec:

 

[JudgeJudi]

Respectfully snipped>

I've gotten to the point with this trial where I believe that anyone still supporting OP's version with its chain of ludicrous events has blinkers firmly clamped on. For some I think it is playing devil's advocate (or just being contrary more like) whereas others are essentially Pistorians who try to disguise that under a veneer of 'just looking at the evidence', which always seem to involve more and more excuses for OP's behaviour in terms of that same evidence. The biggest red flag for me now is anyone criticising Nel's cross-examination of Pistorius. If those who say all they want is the truth were being truthful themselves they wouldn't be in the least bit offended or upset by OP, an admitted killer, being subjected to a few gruelling days in the witness box. JMO

As the old saying goes, "There are none so blind as those who will not see."

 

[BatGunKick]

It does make you wonder, doesn't it .. it's probably just him being a pathological liar again. My ex was just like that, he used to come out with all sorts of nonsense in order to big himself up .. stories about beating people up, and putting knives up at their throat .. and even those same types of stories about killing animals as OP with the dog story, in order to 1) show how big, tough and scary he was and 2) to show how 'compassionate' he was (he told me two stories, one about stamping on a dying blackbird's head to hasten it's demise, and the other was about when he ran a cat over and then reversed back over it to finish the job off <<-- does that sound familiar??!). He used to tell me all this stuff, as I said, mainly to instill a sense of fear in me but also to confuse me by also trying to make it sound like an act of compassion .. and actually, I don't believe any of it because he used to lie about all sorts of other things which I was able to prove were lies, so there is no reason to believe this other stuff was true either. I believe that OP is very much like this, too. JMO

Your ex did what?? I'm so sorry you even had to hear those stories! I don't mean to infer that your ex is psycho, but I've long had a theory that people who are sociopaths have "learned" behavioral norms - ie. how to be sad, how to feign concern, how to be grieving etc. But the root and default setting for them, is no emotional compass, no remorse. So sometimes the masks slips, and they are so unaware because they don't have the ability to have tact or moral standing in the first place. So as you say, telling a story in gruesome detail serves in their eyes to show they are "normal" when actually it does the complete opposite and is that much more horrifying to the listener.

 

[BatGunKick]

Right. I'm off to do some work, then nap (I was up all night back-reading the previous thread). I know I need sleep because this emoticon looks like a baby morphing into a pile of poop:
:baby:

I will be responding to various posts made, such good insights, you guys are too good! :bow:
See you all much later (10 hrs from now) lol.

 

[Cherwell]

Woke up to these articles in SA today regarding mental testing of OP:

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/oscar-to-hear-mental-test-details-1.1690211#.U3nj48dZGgQ

http://www.iol.co.za/capeargus/letter-oscar-tests-a-futile-exercise-1.1688971#.U3nqhcdZGgQ

If anyone was likely to suffer from GAD it would have been Reeva due to the hoops he made her jump through and her admitted fear of him.

From the second link:

"The fact that Pistorius had been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder begs the question, who approved the medical certificate rendering Pistorius fit to own a gun?

To the best of my knowledge, people with any mental condition are definitely not allowed to own guns – for their own safety and that of those around them. The courts need to look into this matter urgently in view of the high number of fatal killings with guns in this country. "


Not for the first time someone rushes into print without actually knowing the facts. And it's a doctor. (a GP, I've checked)

 

[Val1]

This might be interesting. I can't read it as I've reached my 'ten free articles per month limit' so let me know if there's anything earth shattering won't you.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...va-Steenkamp-on-instinct-his-father-says.html

bbm - Since it's all old news, much of which we've had corrected through evidence in the trial... like I'm sure if OP had been giving mouth to mouth Dr.Stipp would have certainly said so. However, I did find this interesting:

Dressed in a strappy top and a yellow and black bikini, with her blonde hair scraped back, she said: "Not just your journey in life but the way that you go out and make your exit is so important. You have either made an impact in a positive way or a negative way."

Mr Pistorius had delivered a prescient message of his own just days earlier, retweeting to followers the comment: "Learn to appreciate what you have, before time makes you appreciate what you had" with the additional words: "True that."

 

[BritsKate]

.. and it's just possible that one of the reasons (apart from not wanting to spend the next 25 years in jail) that he doesn't want to admit to what he did or to tell the exact truth about what happened that night is because he in his own mind wants to save/protect Reeva's parents from the truth. I get the impression that OP tries to balance all the bad stuff that he does with something good in order to try and cancel it out, and also to make it appear that he is really doing these things for someone else's benefit and that he is being soooo thoughtful all the time :facepalm:

I can see solace in believing that since it at least intimates some level of remorse...but it's totally at odds with a narcissistic personality. If someone with NPD does something people at large consider 'good', rarely is it for altruistic reasons. Usually, it's because it casts them in a better light or makes them feel important.

These good deeds are also, ime, very often resented in actuality. Narcissists don't like it when any misdeeds overshadow good ones and will take offence that the person 'criticising' them hasn't remember each and every random display of kindness they showed once, in 1983.

MOO

 

[BritsKate]

I have a theory I can't really back up that cluster B personality disordered people commonly use the wrong words to describe something - this, ime, is most apparent when referencing emotions. Whether it's wanting to sound more intellectual (Jodi Arias) and fumbling badly or stumbling to describe an emotion that isn't entirely focused on self (OP's 'mortified'). OP appears to struggle with 'generous' emotions - charitable, goodwill emotions we commonly evoke when referencing someone else's well-being.

When my mom (who was my best friend) passed away my ex became very angry with me for not putting his pain first. How selfish I was for not noticing how badly he was hurting. And that's what life with a narcissist is really like - you aren't afforded a moment in your own life to deal with your own issues, every moment of every day revolves around them, how life affects them and your obligation, simply because you love them, is to make them feel better, put them first, soothe their wounds, etc.

JMO and FWIW