GUILTY CA - Sophia, 2, Yazmine, 1, & Xenia Coronado, 2 mos, murdered, 20 May 2014

[gitana1]

You are right, there is no excuse. Still, I have compassion for the young mother and for her mother. I don't consider it to be an excuse but rather a reason to help understand the young mother's desperate actions. Three children under three years old would overwhelm anyone.

She called her mother earlier in the day and told her she was going crazy so that is why Grandma was there.

There isn't any excuse for the father to be across the street working on a car.

JMO

I have compassion too. There is often much more to the story and any number of reasons for why she did what she did. But there could be all sorts of excuses for the husband being across the street. Perhaps he was trying to earn more money for his little family. Perhaps his wife told him to get out or she'd kill him.

We don't know.

 

[rob]

Can I ask a what may seem like a rhetorical question but I truly am curious and baffled...what about having PPD makes you want to murder your own children? What kind of thoughts can enter your mind after giving birth that are so sinister that death/murder are your only solutions?? I don't get it. Maybe I seem insensitive but in my mind you would have to be almost predisposed before you even gave birth to follow that path. I just don't see the connection.

I also don't get it. I was once a young mother, full-time job on the nite shift, home, money problems, etc, just like all young mothers. I never had PPD, but sometimes I did feel overwhelmed. But never once did I feel like hurting (or killing) my child. Why do they not just walk away. Better to leave a baby screaming in the house alone than kill it. Get your purse, yell to the husband "get your azz over here, I'm leaving' and drive off, walk off, whatever is necessary.
Just for what its worth, I've never thought Andrea Yates was crazy.
All MOO

 

[LaborDayRN]

Can I ask a what may seem like a rhetorical question but I truly am curious and baffled...what about having PPD makes you want to murder your own children? What kind of thoughts can enter your mind after giving birth that are so sinister that death/murder are your only solutions?? I don't get it. Maybe I seem insensitive but in my mind you would have to be almost predisposed before you even gave birth to follow that path. I just don't see the connection.

Postpartum Psychosis is a rare illness, compared to the rates of postpartum depression or anxiety. It occurs in approximately 1 to 2 out of every 1,000 deliveries, or approximately .1% of births. The onset is usually sudden, most often within the first 4 weeks postpartum.

Symptoms of postpartum psychosis can include:
Delusions or strange beliefs
Hallucinations (seeing or hearing things that aren’t there)
Feeling very irritated
Hyperactivity
Decreased need for or inability to sleep
Paranoia and suspiciousness
Rapid mood swings
Difficulty communicating at times

http://www.postpartum.net/get-the-facts/postpartum-psychosis.aspx

 

[DairyGirl]

Can I ask a what may seem like a rhetorical question but I truly am curious and baffled...what about having PPD makes you want to murder your own children? What kind of thoughts can enter your mind after giving birth that are so sinister that death/murder are your only solutions?? I don't get it. Maybe I seem insensitive but in my mind you would have to be almost predisposed before you even gave birth to follow that path. I just don't see the connection.

I can only tell you my story.
This is horrible but I feel like I have to talk about what happened to me in 1985. I have never told a soul.
I had given birth the the most beautiful boy in the work world, by c section. Very rough labor before that. I had been trying to have a baby for years and had a 2 1/2 adopted son. I bonded instantly with both my boys and went on the breastfeed my son until he was 3. I had a strong support system and was active in church.
In 1985 it was when the horrors of AIDS was making news. I grew up and lived in Los Angeles during the height of the transmissions, before it was known. I had had a bisexual boyfriend years earlier.
A few weeks after my son was born I became obsessed that I had contracted AIDS from the bisexual boyfriend. I don't even think they had a test for it then. AIDS was a death sentence. And a horrible death at that. It was at that time a huge stigma to have AIDS. I became obsessed that not only did I have it but that I gave it to my son.
I had horrifying thoughts about having the disease and my son having the disease. I told no one. Anyone who knew me then would never have guessed what was going on in my head. I began to think that suicide was my only option and that I had to take my son, too, since I was sure I had infected him. I was convinced I was being punished for having sex before I was married and that I deserved to get sick. I even made plans to park my car in the garage and leave the engine on. I never took any action to do that and truthfully, at that time my garage had so much junk in it you couldn't park a tricycle in it.
I never told anyone but I did talk to my doctor about my fears about having AIDS and I was greatly assured that it was very unlikely that I could have contracted it. He told me it was pretty much impossible. I think at time there were few people who had gotten it from hetero sex. I finally was able to stop the thoughts and things were fine from there.
I had never heard of postpartum psychosis, although I was familiar with PPD. It wasn't until years later, reading about Andrea Yates, that I remembered my obsessions.
The reason I am sharing this is because people always say "Why didn't she just kill herself?" I can't answer that, obviously, but my feeling is that when you are in that kind of episode, sense doesn't make sense and nonsense rules. I became convinced that my son would have a miserable, painful life because of me. That I was doing him a favor, if you will. In that way, I can almost understand a mother killing their child because they have convinced themselves that they are saving them, like Andrea Yates thought she was saving her children.
I am so glad these things are talked about now. Had I known what was going on I would have hightailed it to my OB/GYN and gotten whatever help I could have but at that time I was ashamed. Ashamed that I could have gotten AIDS, ashamed I could have given it to my son and ashamed that I had such horrible, disturbing thoughts. I didn't realize that it may have been a hormonal reaction to giving birth.
For this woman who do survive their attempts they will have to live their lives knowing what they did. Life in prison or a mental hospital could not be a worse punishment then that. Instead of judgment and condemnation I have compassion for those who are truly in a psychotic state and really don't know what they are doing.
There are some who really just want to get rid of their children, or who want to punish people who love those children by taking them away. Those are evil people who should never breath free air again. But for those who are driven by irrational thoughts that they are not able to even recognize much less control, I pray for them. They will live in Hell for the rest of their lives, no matter what the punishment.

 

[LaborDayRN]

((((((((DairyGirl)))))))))))

What a brave and thoughtful post. I'm sorry you had to go through this. You are not alone. Statistically 1-2 in 1000 births is lot's and lot's of moms. Thanks for sharing your story.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Of the women who develop a postpartum psychosis, there is a 5% infanticide or suicide rate associated with the illness. This is because the woman experiencing psychosis is experiencing a break from reality. In her psychotic state, the delusions and beliefs make sense to her; they feel very meaningful and are often religious. Immediate treatment for these women is imperative.

http://www.postpartum.net/get-the-facts/postpartum-psychosis.aspx

 

[MyBelle]

I also don't get it. I was once a young mother, full-time job on the nite shift, home, money problems, etc, just like all young mothers. I never had PPD, but sometimes I did feel overwhelmed. But never once did I feel like hurting (or killing) my child. Why do they not just walk away. Better to leave a baby screaming in the house alone than kill it. Get your purse, yell to the husband "get your azz over here, I'm leaving' and drive off, walk off, whatever is necessary.
Just for what its worth, I've never thought Andrea Yates was crazy.
All MOO

I have always believed Andrea Yates was hopeless. And the young mother in this case may also have lost all hope. According to the news stories, she tried to kill herself.

 

[seattlechiquita]

oh dear gods, this is a horrible tragedy. I will suspend judgment on this mother until we have a comprehensive evaluation of her mental state. PP Psychosis exists, whether we like it or not. This is so horrifying. :grouphug:

 

[margarita25]

I can only tell you my story.
This is horrible but I feel like I have to talk about what happened to me in 1985. I have never told a soul.
I had given birth the the most beautiful boy in the work world, by c section. Very rough labor before that. I had been trying to have a baby for years and had a 2 1/2 adopted son. I bonded instantly with both my boys and went on the breastfeed my son until he was 3. I had a strong support system and was active in church.
In 1985 it was when the horrors of AIDS was making news. I grew up and lived in Los Angeles during the height of the transmissions, before it was known. I had had a bisexual boyfriend years earlier.
A few weeks after my son was born I became obsessed that I had contracted AIDS from the bisexual boyfriend. I don't even think they had a test for it then. AIDS was a death sentence. And a horrible death at that. It was at that time a huge stigma to have AIDS. I became obsessed that not only did I have it but that I gave it to my son.
I had horrifying thoughts about having the disease and my son having the disease. I told no one. Anyone who knew me then would never have guessed what was going on in my head. I began to think that suicide was my only option and that I had to take my son, too, since I was sure I had infected him. I was convinced I was being punished for having sex before I was married and that I deserved to get sick. I even made plans to park my car in the garage and leave the engine on. I never took any action to do that and truthfully, at that time my garage had so much junk in it you couldn't park a tricycle in it.
I never told anyone but I did talk to my doctor about my fears about having AIDS and I was greatly assured that it was very unlikely that I could have contracted it. He told me it was pretty much impossible. I think at time there were few people who had gotten it from hetero sex. I finally was able to stop the thoughts and things were fine from there.
I had never heard of postpartum psychosis, although I was familiar with PPD. It wasn't until years later, reading about Andrea Yates, that I remembered my obsessions.
The reason I am sharing this is because people always say "Why didn't she just kill herself?" I can't answer that, obviously, but my feeling is that when you are in that kind of episode, sense doesn't make sense and nonsense rules. I became convinced that my son would have a miserable, painful life because of me. That I was doing him a favor, if you will. In that way, I can almost understand a mother killing their child because they have convinced themselves that they are saving them, like Andrea Yates thought she was saving her children.
I am so glad these things are talked about now. Had I known what was going on I would have hightailed it to my OB/GYN and gotten whatever help I could have but at that time I was ashamed. Ashamed that I could have gotten AIDS, ashamed I could have given it to my son and ashamed that I had such horrible, disturbing thoughts. I didn't realize that it may have been a hormonal reaction to giving birth.
For this woman who do survive their attempts they will have to live their lives knowing what they did. Life in prison or a mental hospital could not be a worse punishment then that. Instead of judgment and condemnation I have compassion for those who are truly in a psychotic state and really don't know what they are doing.
There are some who really just want to get rid of their children, or who want to punish people who love those children by taking them away. Those are evil people who should never breath free air again. But for those who are driven by irrational thoughts that they are not able to even recognize much less control, I pray for them. They will live in Hell for the rest of their lives, no matter what the punishment.

Hugs Dairy Girl. Thank you for your brave, honest and insightful post.
:grouphug:

 

[DairyGirl]

Of the women who develop a postpartum psychosis, there is a 5% infanticide or suicide rate associated with the illness. This is because the woman experiencing psychosis is experiencing a break from reality. In her psychotic state, the delusions and beliefs make sense to her; they feel very meaningful and are often religious. Immediate treatment for these women is imperative.

http://www.postpartum.net/get-the-facts/postpartum-psychosis.aspx

I can say for me this was so true. Especially the religious part. I was convinced I was being punished for my sins and part of my punishment was that my son would suffer because of me.
I can remember clearly that this all made complete sense to me at the time. I didn't even question it until years later when I became aware of postpartum psychosis. Thank God I didn't act on it but I am also grateful now that so much stigma has been removed and there is a lot of help available. I know when my daughter had her babies they screened carefully for PPD and they talked about some of the emotional things that could happen, I think they even gave out information and phone numbers in her hospital packet.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

Considering the age of her youngest and how the mother was found in the home: I'd bet the farm she's been suffering from postpartum psychosis.

I'm one of the many women who suffered from PPP. Let me tell you, my symptoms eluded my family, GP, OB, and numerous visits to the ER. My daughter was born in March. I was finally admitted the end of May. Thankfully, I was never really alone for long with my children. I was afraid to be because of things I saw that weren't there. Things I thought I would do. Things I would see myself doing. I once saw a vision of me placing my daughters arm over a lit burner on the stove and watching her arm burn.

I had visions of harming my children. I had visions of harming myself. I was convinced that I was dying. I was convinced that the bushes outside had cameras that were spying on my mothering skills. I heard voices laugh at me when I tried to do anything. I would often hear whispers in my ear -- telling me the children were better off without me.

I could go on and on. I'm drawn to these stories because I think of how that could have been me. That could have been my children. I don't know that I would be here had it not been for my family being there for me, every moment I needed them.

Please, ladies, don't be afraid if this is happening to you. Being honest about what you're really going through will only bring good things. We don't have to suffer in silence anymore. If my small snippet of my PPP experience helps just one Mom, then it will do what I have hoped it would do.

 

[margarita25]

I don't think that anyone necessarily saying that PP is an "excuse", but more a direct reason. Does that makes sense? Hard to explain. Obviously something was not right with her. Which brings to the table, then if this is the case, something is obviously not right with anyone who commits murder of a child, Austin Sigg, etc. I think the thing here is the "thoughts" that these people have, whether associated with ppd, schizophrenia, whatever. Whatever the case, something is definitely wrong with these people mentally and emotionally. That's the the only "reason" someone would "feel the need" to do something like this. Kwim? Ugh, having a hard time explaining myself.

 

[LaborDayRN]

I can say for me this was so true. Especially the religious part. I was convinced I was being punished for my sins and part of my punishment was that my son would suffer because of me.
I can remember clearly that this all made complete sense to me at the time. I didn't even question it until years later when I became aware of postpartum psychosis. Thank God I didn't act on it but I am also grateful now that so much stigma has been removed and there is a lot of help available. I know when my daughter had her babies they screened carefully for PPD and they talked about some of the emotional things that could happen, I think they even gave out information and phone numbers in her hospital packet.

Oh my DairyGirl! I hope you didn't think I was referring to your experience! I'm sorry if it came across that way. My quote from the article was just to point out that there is a 5% infanticide or suicide rate associated with the illness (postpartum psychosis) and also that the feelings and thoughts make sense to the mom in her psychotic state.

 

[PoeticJustice]

I can only tell you my story.
This is horrible but I feel like I have to talk about what happened to me in 1985. I have never told a soul.
I had given birth the the most beautiful boy in the work world, by c section. Very rough labor before that. I had been trying to have a baby for years and had a 2 1/2 adopted son. I bonded instantly with both my boys and went on the breastfeed my son until he was 3. I had a strong support system and was active in church.
In 1985 it was when the horrors of AIDS was making news. I grew up and lived in Los Angeles during the height of the transmissions, before it was known. I had had a bisexual boyfriend years earlier.
A few weeks after my son was born I became obsessed that I had contracted AIDS from the bisexual boyfriend. I don't even think they had a test for it then. AIDS was a death sentence. And a horrible death at that. It was at that time a huge stigma to have AIDS. I became obsessed that not only did I have it but that I gave it to my son.
I had horrifying thoughts about having the disease and my son having the disease. I told no one. Anyone who knew me then would never have guessed what was going on in my head. I began to think that suicide was my only option and that I had to take my son, too, since I was sure I had infected him. I was convinced I was being punished for having sex before I was married and that I deserved to get sick. I even made plans to park my car in the garage and leave the engine on. I never took any action to do that and truthfully, at that time my garage had so much junk in it you couldn't park a tricycle in it.
I never told anyone but I did talk to my doctor about my fears about having AIDS and I was greatly assured that it was very unlikely that I could have contracted it. He told me it was pretty much impossible. I think at time there were few people who had gotten it from hetero sex. I finally was able to stop the thoughts and things were fine from there.
I had never heard of postpartum psychosis, although I was familiar with PPD. It wasn't until years later, reading about Andrea Yates, that I remembered my obsessions.
The reason I am sharing this is because people always say "Why didn't she just kill herself?" I can't answer that, obviously, but my feeling is that when you are in that kind of episode, sense doesn't make sense and nonsense rules. I became convinced that my son would have a miserable, painful life because of me. That I was doing him a favor, if you will. In that way, I can almost understand a mother killing their child because they have convinced themselves that they are saving them, like Andrea Yates thought she was saving her children.
I am so glad these things are talked about now. Had I known what was going on I would have hightailed it to my OB/GYN and gotten whatever help I could have but at that time I was ashamed. Ashamed that I could have gotten AIDS, ashamed I could have given it to my son and ashamed that I had such horrible, disturbing thoughts. I didn't realize that it may have been a hormonal reaction to giving birth.
For this woman who do survive their attempts they will have to live their lives knowing what they did. Life in prison or a mental hospital could not be a worse punishment then that. Instead of judgment and condemnation I have compassion for those who are truly in a psychotic state and really don't know what they are doing.
There are some who really just want to get rid of their children, or who want to punish people who love those children by taking them away. Those are evil people who should never breath free air again. But for those who are driven by irrational thoughts that they are not able to even recognize much less control, I pray for them. They will live in Hell for the rest of their lives, no matter what the punishment.

Thank you for your story, that sounds terrible to have done thru. It's incredible what obsessive thoughts can do to a person, and to be unaware of how irrational those thoughts are is so alarming and scary. I had a similar fear a couple years ago when I became convinced that an ex had possibly given me aids because I found out how sexually promiscuous she had been during and after our relationship...I literally could not rest until I had myself tested, thankfully nothing came back positive and perhaps I was overthinking it but better to know than to sit around obsessing over it until it made me sick.


Have doctors identified if there is a chemical/hormonal imbalance that takes place during pregnancy or during/after birth? Perhaps we could prevent and treat these women before their children are alone with them at home...I would be very interested to read studies on this. It seems ridiculous that there isn't some kind of medication that targets PPD specifically that could offset those intense feelings.

 

[SapphireSteel]

You could say "it's post partum madness" or you could say "it was an act of spite".

NOT judging this woman, but I am getting very very sick of individuals harming innocent children.

I had a friend who's mother had PPD for years, back 40 years ago.

She ended up having shock therapy which apparently worked like a charm.

HOWEVER I note that my friend grew up unharmed, as did (no doubt) a million other babies who's mothers have suffered over the decades with PPD.

Why are the effects of PPD worsening? Because the PPD itself is getting worse, or because our SOCIETY is getting more violent?

Everywhere you look it seems as though some narcissist has decided the best way to get over whatever is bothering them, is to murder someone.

It's just not good enough. NO PPD in the world can cause a mother to slice open her children, one by one.

Sorry. Y'all who suffered it and survived, know it's true. I bet none of you posting here ever ONCE thought to stab or slash your baby, or if you did you ran and got help.

I'm reminded of the callous little madams who give birth in school bathrooms during the prom, and stuff the baby in the garbage.

Are they supposed to be suffering PPD too, while they adjust their underwear and head back to the dance floor?

It could just be that they are evil and selfish.

Men annihilate their families all the time and no one looks to hormones to excuse them.

 

[Outlier]

You could say "it's post partum madness" or you could say "it was an act of spite".

NOT judging this woman, but I am getting very very sick of individuals harming innocent children.

I had a friend who's mother had PPD for years, back 40 years ago.

She ended up having shock therapy which apparently worked like a charm.

HOWEVER I note that my friend grew up unharmed, as did (no doubt) a million other babies who's mothers have suffered over the decades with PPD.

Why are the effects of PPD worsening? Because the PPD itself is getting worse, or because our SOCIETY is getting more violent?

Everywhere you look it seems as though some narcissist has decided the best way to get over whatever is bothering them, is to murder someone.

It's just not good enough. NO PPD in the world can cause a mother to slice open her children, one by one.

Sorry. Y'all who suffered it and survived, know it's true. I bet none of you posting here ever ONCE thought to stab or slash your baby, or if you did you ran and got help.

I'm reminded of the callous little madams who give birth in school bathrooms during the prom, and stuff the baby in the garbage.

Are they supposed to be suffering PPD too, while they adjust their underwear and head back to the dance floor?

It could just be that they are evil and selfish.

Men annihilate their families all the time and no one looks to hormones to excuse them.

Your thoughts X1000

 

[DairyGirl]

Oh my DairyGirl! I hope you didn't think I was referring to your experience! I'm sorry if it came across that way. My quote from the article was just to point out that there is a 5% infanticide or suicide rate associated with the illness (postpartum psychosis) and also that the feelings and thoughts make sense to the mom in her psychotic state.

No worries I was just taken at how much that related to my experience. And being that I had never heard anything about PP before my experience it just confirms my feelings that I was experiencing it.
I didn't want to tell my story. Like I said, I have never told anyone before now but one thing I have found is because of the internet we can learn that we are not alone. We are not the worst of the worst because of our thoughts because other people have been brave enough to admit that they had those thoughts and feelings, as well. Hopefully making it easier for someone to seek help before another tragedy occurs. And for people around them to recognize that something is wrong and intervenes before it's too late.

 

[DairyGirl]

Thank you for your story, that sounds terrible to have done thru. It's incredible what obsessive thoughts can do to a person, and to be unaware of how irrational those thoughts are is so alarming and scary. I had a similar fear a couple years ago when I became convinced that an ex had possibly given me aids because I found out how sexually promiscuous she had been during and after our relationship...I literally could not rest until I had myself tested, thankfully nothing came back positive and perhaps I was overthinking it but better to know than to sit around obsessing over it until it made me sick.


Have doctors identified if there is a chemical/hormonal imbalance that takes place during pregnancy or during/after birth? Perhaps we could prevent and treat these women before their children are alone with them at home...I would be very interested to read studies on this. It seems ridiculous that there isn't some kind of medication that targets PPD specifically that could offset those intense feelings.

One thing I have heard is that those with severe PMS symptoms could be more at risk for PPD and PP, which was true in my case. The problem is that no one wants to admit that they are thinking of harming their child, or even that they are thinking irrational thoughts, or maybe, like in my case, don't even recognize the irrationality of those thoughts.
The best we can hope for is more open dialogues with new mothers, for doctors and nurses to make them aware that this could happen and make it safe for them to admit what is going on. Obviously I knew what I was thinking was wrong because I knew I couldn't tell anyone but what I was thinking made perfect sense to me at that time.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Oh my DairyGirl! I hope you didn't think I was referring to your experience! I'm sorry if it came across that way. My quote from the article was just to point out that there is a 5% infanticide or suicide rate associated with the illness (postpartum psychosis) and also that the feelings and thoughts make sense to the mom in her psychotic state.

Infanticide and suicide can't just be lumped together like that! What percentage of this 5% is infanticide? Probably .00001% [modsnip]

Over the centuries, how many women have suffered PPD?

It would have to be billions.

Over the centuries, how many women have taken up a knife and sliced each child open one by one?

A handful.

The chances that this woman (whos selfie shows her to be somewhat narcissistic) suffered a massive psychotic break while her family were all around her, is just unbelievable to me.

These things happen to isolated women, women who are clearly unwell and have been left untreated and ignored for extended periods of time.

I just don't get that vibe.

There was an American woman in the UK who did the same thing. Her children were all school age, but she killed all three then tried to kill herself.

It had nothing to do with PPD and everything to do with punishing her husband.

PPD doesn't make you into a baby slicing murderer.

 

[azmama]

My dad used to question this all the time too. Not just for PPD, but also for various mental illnesses. He used to say, "Why do they have the urge to kill? What about obsessively planting flowers or something? Why is it always rape and murder?"

He was skeptical of the mental illness defense.

My MIL used to question MI all the time too, making fun of it, acting like it was all excuses, till one of her very best friends committed suicide after the birth of her son, she suffered terribly from depression even before she had the baby, but was 100x worse after. It was a big shock to her system, she is quieter about it now.

Post partum depression is not new. My Mother's cousin had it after her daughter was born but no one knew what it was back then. I'm talking 70 years ago.

Respectfully snipped. I agree, I believe that a lot of awareness now is the 24 hour news cycle, back in the day, growing up in the 70s and before, you got news 30 minutes or an hour twice a day, really all you got was really big news and local news, you didn't hear any crime from another city (relatively) or human interest, no fluff. I am not saying this is fluff at all, but just due to our accessiblity to news and info 24/7 we know what goes on everywhere all the time now.

I can only tell you my story.
This is horrible but I feel like I have to talk about what happened to me in 1985. I have never told a soul.

Let me tell you, my symptoms eluded my family, GP, OB, and numerous visits to the ER. My daughter was born in March. I was finally admitted the end of May.

Both snipped for space, kindly. I appreciate you both sharing your stories, I hope that they help someone, to understand. (((((hugs)))))