CA - Elliot Rodger kills 6, injures 13 in Isla Vista, Near UC Santa Barbara, #2

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Paladine said:
I am biased. I take the med he refused to take and it changed my life. No, I never had violent thoughts but I did have intrusive thoughts that were negative and forced me into isolation; being around people would bring up too many thoughts then feelings of inferiority. I tried two other meds before Respiridone and respiridone worked. I am now social and no longer have a mind that won't quit.

I was anti-meds my whole life. I'd start a med and stop for fear of having chemicals in my body. Now, I am choosing a sane mind over a chemically free body. I obviously need them. Some people need meds and they can change lives. For ER, who knows. It's too late, now.
Click to expand...

I'm really glad it worked out for you, and I'm not by any means an anti-med person or anything like that. I keep hearing a lot about this med lately, and I've always struggled with inferior intrusive thoughts but have never really gotten a diagnosis and no meds have worked - I don't have extreme symptoms though so it hasn't really been much of a focus. Certainly no violent inclinations or delusions - I'm very functional, just have constant boredom, disinterest and insomnia - I have a mind that's always buzzing and looking for something to occupy itself. Difficult to explain.

But I do know that these meds don't work for everyone, and some people have to try many before they find the one that works, so I'm just saying we have no idea if it actually would have made any difference.

I've personally had doctor after doctor tell me this would all be solved by one antidepressant or another. Never have had any results, always baffle them when I try to explain my symptoms because they don't fit any specific criteria. Only meds that have helped are addictive meds they don't like to keep people on. I also react very differently to drugs than most people, and have a really high tolerance from the beginning. For example, alcohol makes me focused and I retain all rationality, and it aggravates my insomnia. Sedatives also make me focused and have energy, and won't put me to sleep for many hours. So I just know it's not easy to find the right med. I'd do anything to feel settled, but I jut haven't found anything that does this. Sometimes meds calm people down but just make them numb. I think most people would do anything to feel normal if they could.
 
IHAVENOCLUE said:
Actually... I believe a therapist made an independent call to LE between the time of the Mom's call... And the actual "event"...

I will need to research... But this was discussed in thread one, as well..

maybe there is a poster here who can provide links supporting/not supporting of my thoughts above....?

TIA...:seeya:
Click to expand...

Got it! Ty for the info a few posts above. :( Very disheartening.
 
Flutterby80 said:
I am not denying possible Aspergers but I do believe it's also possible he was a psychopath. Both disorders, I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) cause someone to have no empathy or understanding of emotions. The difference, again I am just guessing out loud, is that a psychopath will learn to fake it in order to get what he wants with no cares about who he hurts, while someone with Asperger's will learn to fake it in order to fit in and become more of a part of society.

I guess I'm saying that it seems like with both conditions, empathy doesn't come naturally and must be learned or even just mimiced, but they do it for different reasons.

Am I making any sense? I could be way off base.
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:thumb:

Great distinction... IMO
 
i.b.nora said:
I concur with you on this notion. I am about two thirds through it, and find it to be all of the above and so tedious and so repetitive! It's the same thing over and over and while people have commented on the writing (spelling etc) I have found a notable limitation on his vocabulary or command of the English language. Same words throughout to describe the same things throughout. It occurred to me that it might be because the manifesto was written recently and over a relatively short period of time. And, its very much the same language as the videos. If I hear or read 'magnificent' one more time there is no telling what I might do.

Anyhow, one thing I noted, and so far I have only seen it once, is a reference to his diary and how he had written about something and then removed the pages so no one would see it. So, I would expect that there will be a diary or diaries found amongst his possessions. He said his mother had encouraged him to possibly be a writer, so even if there are no diaries found, there has to be evidence of other writing he has done and it might prove interesting.

One of his themes I find interesting is his constant return to vistas, to landscapes, to faraway views. Again, it can be seen in both the manifesto and the videos.

Just random thoughts. Maybe I will finally finish the manifesto today, maybe not.
Click to expand...

I am glad you brought up the diary/ies...

I thought I remembered a reference to these... But couldn't remember for the life of me where...

Yes... I DO hope those diaries are found... So as to gain more insight into his mind...

and... I imagine these diaries could have been used by ER for his recollections written in his manifesto...

Just some thoughts...
 
Flutterby80 said:
I am not denying possible Aspergers but I do believe it's also possible he was a psychopath. Both disorders, I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) cause someone to have no empathy or understanding of emotions. The difference, again I am just guessing out loud, is that a psychopath will learn to fake it in order to get what he wants with no cares about who he hurts, while someone with Asperger's will learn to fake it in order to fit in and become more of a part of society.

I guess I'm saying that it seems like with both conditions, empathy doesn't come naturally and must be learned or even just mimiced, but they do it for different reasons.

Am I making any sense? I could be way off base.
Click to expand...

More thoughts from me...

I believe that therapists are very hesitant to apply a diagnosis of "Psychopath" to a client... For various reasons...(parental reaction, client/patient reaction, social ramifications, etc.)

Aspergers is a more "palatable" diagnosis... With some similar behavior characteristics to psychopaths.... Yet not dangerous or extreme...

I feel it is an injustice to the Aspergers community for those surrounding ER to continue reporting that ER was diagnosed with Aspergers if indeed this was NOT the correct diagnosis...

I still wonder if ER exhibited behaviors linked to psychopaths:

- harming animals intentionally

- arson

- Etc.....

All... JMO
 
PPKik said:
Yes, I totally agree with all but your last sentence. It seems like PR suspected CR had "invented" all that for more child support, the way his response was worded in the court documents, but, what I found beyond perplexing is that PR said he was "greatly disturbed," as if he were hearing for the first time something was wrong with his son. ER was eight at that time.

Does anyone believe that until CR had this evaluation done, apparently during the divorce, that ER's parents, especially PR, had not noticed anything wrong? (IIRC, ER was obsessed with being blonde around this time, and his father took him to a hair salon to get his hair bleached, according to "The Manifesto.")

I think beyond wanting to know when ER began exhibiting "abnormal" behaviour, and what it was at that age, I'm wondering if RP was trying to distance himself from EP's problems and the expenses related to dealing with those problems, because he was about to get remarried and would have two household to (help) support. IMO.
Click to expand...

Just a thought, but dad got into multiple arguements and physical altercations with longtime friends if ER's journal is to be believed. Maybe it took dad a little longer to come to terms with something being very wrong with his son due to his own personality and the fact that he didn't log as much parenting time as mom.
 
sfbaynancydrew said:
I actually had wondered if he was in some sort of special ed program at UCSB, because his academic history sounded abysmal. I have a few friends who graduated from UCSB. It was NOT an easy school to get into--these were people with 4.0s, high SATs, extra curricular activities, glowing letters of recommendation etc and one was even put on the waiting list but managed to just squeak in. It's HIGHLY competitive among the best and brightest and this was back in the 90s before the budget crisis and huge funding cuts. I'm sure it's infinitely worse now.

I have found his admission into UCSB to be a head scratcher.
Click to expand...

He was not a student at UCSB. He was in the community college, but dropped his classes because he couldn't stand to see people in relationships all around him.
 
jjenny said:
Yes, he was. But he dropped out.

"February 2012: Rodger dropped out of all of his classes at SBCC because he didn't want to see "all of those beautiful girls I could never have." "When I dropped my college classes, I crossed a threshold that I knew existed, but never actually believed I would cross. It completely ended all hope I had of living a desirable life in Santa Barbara.""

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/26/justice/california-elliot-rodger-timeline/
Click to expand...

SBCC is NOT UCSB

SBCC= the community college
 
IHAVENOCLUE said:
More thoughts from me...

I believe that therapists are very hesitant to apply a diagnosis of "Psychopath" to a client... For various reasons...(parental reaction, client/patient reaction, social ramifications, etc.)

Aspergers is a more "palatable" diagnosis... With some similar behavior characteristics to psychopaths.... Yet not dangerous or extreme...

I feel it is an injustice to the Aspergers community for those surrounding ER to continue reporting that ER was diagnosed with Aspergers if indeed this was NOT the correct diagnosis...

I still wonder if ER exhibited behaviors linked to psychopaths:

- harming animals intentionally

- arson

- Etc.....

All... JMO
Click to expand...


I agree it is an injustice, but I do not think those conditions resemble each other enough to result in a botched diagnosis. Being on the spectrum is not just defined by some social ineptness - other behaviors are looked at. Most people are not diagnosed as sociopaths until they are much older because it is not at all as apparent what is wrong with them. They may not experience the same emotions, but they are generally not socially inept. They pick up on social expectations and accept them to get by like most young children who cannot yet appreciate why they have to act in certain ways, but show anomalies in what they are comfortable doing - the violence with animals or siblings, for example. Then they can act like any kid who got in trouble and promise they won't do it again. Children on the spectrum don't just switch back and forth and immediately fall into line with expectations once they realize something isn't right. And they usually do not have the boundary-pushing mentality of sociopath who starts engaging in violence or crimes because their interests are self-focused. Even if someone on the spectrum learns how to fit in well, except on the very lowest end which really should not result in an Asperger's diagnosis, they are most likely not going to be considered charming. Sociopaths can be. You always hear someone say "he was amazing - I never would have found out it was all a front - he was a complete sociopath." You never hear someone say "he was amazing - then I found out he had Asperger's and it was all fake." It's just not that type of disorder.

It is possible he had multiple issues, one of which was Asperger's or being on the spectrum. He doesn't seem like merely a sociopath because he probably would have been able to fake being an appealing boyfriend and normal kid eventually. He also doesn't seem to be merely autistic because they are generally non-violent and if they are, generally do not commit such crimes. Then you have supposedly hearing voices. I wonder if it is schizophrenia and being on the spectrum, and maybe being a sociopath as well. I could see that being an awful combination, and the similarities between Lanza and Holmes always get me in that they seem to maybe have suffered from such a combination and presented pretty atypically. My general impression of sociopaths seems to be that they just don't care and will take what they want - not that they go on and on about how they are hurt by the injustices done to them. They may be self-centered and feel everyone should bow down to them, but this seems to be a more insecure anger that indicates there are feelings and a desire to connect.
 
Disguiseduser0308 said:
The problem I see here is... no one seemed to know howto get ER the help he needed. I don't see mental health being as in dire situation as others. The issue I always seem to be drawn to is how family members don't know how ill someone really is until it's too late.


The help is there. The resources are there. Education is what is lacking. What I believe needed to happen was an ICE (in case of emergency) plan. Tell parents what to watch for. What behaviors could and likely indicate a severe medical emergency. This would require family and friends be a constant in the persons life. It would also require medical personnel to be on their toes and be ready to provide their medical documentation as quickly as possible.

Psychiatrists, therapists, and parents need to work together so people who can be a serious danger to society are afforded the help they need before it's too late. We can't continue to throw meds at people and hope for the best.

JMO & :twocents:
Click to expand...

UBM

I disagree that the 'help and resources' are there. That is not at all what I have experienced. Someone like ER, who was able to hold an intelligent conversation and stay focused and polite, was not going to be eligible for a forced hospitalization.

Even if someone makes wild and crazy threats, that alone is not enough to force them into an institution. At least not under the present legal requirements.
 
IHAVENOCLUE said:
I am glad you brought up the diary/ies...

I thought I remembered a reference to these... But couldn't remember for the life of me where...

Yes... I DO hope those diaries are found... So as to gain more insight into his mind...

and... I imagine these diaries could have been used by ER for his recollections written in his manifesto...

Just some thoughts...
Click to expand...

In his Manifesto, if I'm not mistaken, he said he destroyed that part didn't he? That thing gave me a massive headache.
 
lawstudent said:
I agree it is an injustice, but I do not think those conditions resemble each other enough to result in a botched diagnosis. Being on the spectrum is not just defined by some social ineptness - other behaviors are looked at. Most people are not diagnosed as sociopaths until they are much older because it is not at all as apparent what is wrong with them. They may not experience the same emotions, but they are generally not socially inept. They pick up on social expectations and accept them to get by like most young children who cannot yet appreciate why they have to act in certain ways, but show anomalies in what they are comfortable doing - the violence with animals or siblings, for example. Then they can act like any kid who got in trouble and promise they won't do it again. Children on the spectrum don't just switch back and forth and immediately fall into line with expectations once they realize something isn't right. And they usually do not have the boundary-pushing mentality of sociopath who starts engaging in violence or crimes because their interests are self-focused. Even if someone on the spectrum learns how to fit in well, except on the very lowest end which really should not result in an Asperger's diagnosis, they are most likely not going to be considered charming. Sociopaths can be. You always hear someone say "he was amazing - I never would have found out it was all a front - he was a complete sociopath." You never hear someone say "he was amazing - then I found out he had Asperger's and it was all fake." It's just not that type of disorder.

It is possible he had multiple issues, one of which was Asperger's or being on the spectrum. He doesn't seem like merely a sociopath because he probably would have been able to fake being an appealing boyfriend and normal kid eventually. He also doesn't seem to be merely autistic because they are generally non-violent and if they are, generally do not commit such crimes. Then you have supposedly hearing voices. I wonder if it is schizophrenia and being on the spectrum, and maybe being a sociopath as well. I could see that being an awful combination, and the similarities between Lanza and Holmes always get me in that they seem to maybe have suffered from such a combination and presented pretty atypically. My general impression of sociopaths seems to be that they just don't care and will take what they want - not that they go on and on about how they are hurt by the injustices done to them. They may be self-centered and feel everyone should bow down to them, but this seems to be a more insecure anger that indicates there are feelings and a desire to connect.
Click to expand...

You bring up interesting points...

and I am not well enough versed to even attempt to make any diagnoses
(I have a masters in Psychology... But have forgotten 90% of what I learned..:blushing:)

But ... I do believe there is a difference between psychopaths and sociopaths...

though these differences may be vague...

In short... as it pertains to ER... He could (IMO) be a psychopath... Who tend to be loners...

ER was not a sociopath... As sociopaths can be charming and sociable... And their true depravity is not witnessed until someone gets in the way of what they want...

All... JMO...and very simplified...
 
Tulessa said:
In his Manifesto, if I'm not mistaken, he said he destroyed that part didn't he? That thing gave me a massive headache.
Click to expand...

I think you are correct... Now that you mention it...


And I hope your headache goes away soon... :nurse:

:giggle:
 
IHAVENOCLUE said:
More thoughts from me...

I believe that therapists are very hesitant to apply a diagnosis of "Psychopath" to a client... For various reasons...(parental reaction, client/patient reaction, social ramifications, etc.)

Aspergers is a more "palatable" diagnosis... With some similar behavior characteristics to psychopaths.... Yet not dangerous or extreme...

I feel it is an injustice to the Aspergers community for those surrounding ER to continue reporting that ER was diagnosed with Aspergers if indeed this was NOT the correct diagnosis...

I still wonder if ER exhibited behaviors linked to psychopaths:

- harming animals intentionally

- arson

- Etc.....

All... JMO
Click to expand...

I think a psychologist would fear the patient would pull away if diagnosed with psychopathy.
 
Coverage of [ER] stirs debate after Isla Vista rampage

... Crime expert [JAF] said mass murderers typically leave writings as a form of justification.

"It's very important [to them] that the world doesn't view them as some nut that killed for no reason," said [JAF], who has written several books on mass shootings. "In their minds, they are good guys." ...

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...nds-of-isla-vista-victims-20140528-story.html
 
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