The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 18th June - Trial Day 6, Week 2

[Mrs G Norris]

Hello All, first time on WS too, but have been following this from Day 1....Thank you to all for your amazing updates.

My thoughts re the search of the home ..... something that has been bugging me for a while, where was NBC taking the vacuum and hose, could that be the place where the incident may have occured, a place to clean up any evidence ????

Newbie here. First post...

Could the 2 marks from GBC right shoulder to armpit be a continuation of the grab marks/scratches to GBC right cheek?

Head wounds bleed profusely even from smallish cuts.

Did ABC head injury (struck open car door?) cause GBC to put her in car (let's get you to hospital for stitches)?

Did ABC fight to grab him as he shoved her down stairs/off bridge?

I picture ABC 'falling' left hand holding rail and right grabbing up at GBC - clawing at him to help or fighting him to stop.

Did return home, pop pj's on to appear he'd been in bed (put clean shoes on for last few outdoor 'jobs') then wake children covering the scratches with shaving foam.

All guesses and merely my non-expert (except I have clawed upward to grab neck when shoved downstairs) opinion only.

:wagon: Guys!!

 

[canarybird]

The blood was Allison's

Thanks, but that wasn't stated, was it? Only things like, 'Streeting pointed out a blood stain.' No mention if victim's/accused's blood.

 

[alioop]

That's right, I forgot about the hair. A question for you Alioop, if we are about halfway through the witnesses, it would seem that they will take about three weeks. What is the rest of the time used for? Does all the summing up take quite a while? Thanks.

It should only take a couple of days for summing up and the judges directions to the jury. Wasn't original estimate about 4 weeks for the trial and we are in the middle of week 2 so it's about right for timing.

 

[Maigret]

12:36pm: Mrs Dickie said she walked into her daughter's kitchen that morning to find it "sterile".

"Two cups and saucers sitting in the kitchen ... we'd never had tea in a cup and saucer in that house ... always in a mug.

"My goodness that was strange, very strange."

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ay-4-week-2-20140616-3a6an.html#ixzz34x63q6WJ

I think that OW may have made tea in the early hours whilst plans were bring made

 

[laserdisc10]

OW left with the children at 8am when the police arrived, as the school is only a short distance from the house! OW could not drop the children off that early? So what did she do? Did she go back to GBC house after dropping the children off?

From the Queensland Police Witness Report by Constable Keiron Ash

Quote: Gerard asked me to move our police vehicle to allow his sister to drive the children to school in the blue sedan. Soon after his sister drove out of the driveway with the children in the blue sedan

7. I now know this female person to be Olivia Walton

8. Another male person appeared from inside the house and walked over to where we were standing in the driveway and immediately put his arm around Gerard's shoulders. Gerard then introduced this person as his father -- etc.

9. I now know this male person to be Nigel Baden Clay



Then we jump to Number 28 on the Police Witness Statement


28. Shortly after Gerard's sister Olivia Walton arrived back at the address after having taken the children to school. She went upstairs into the house but quickly returned back downstairs. I asked her what the girls had been told this morning, she said " that Gerard told the girls shortly after 6 a.m. that Mummy had gone for a walk and had probably fallen down a hole and would not be back" she then asked " Is that ok?"


Constable Ash stated in his report that he had arrived at the house at 8 o'clock

It was very shortly after that time that Olivia Walton drove the children away from the house, as can be ascertained by the fact it happened (and was reported) almost immediately police stepped out of the car onto the driveway

Olivia Walton drove the children away from the house very soon after police arrived, as can be seen from the following Witness Statement by Constable Keiron Ash:


Quote: Constable Leah Hammond arrived at the address at 8.00 a.m. As we drove up the driveway I observed a female person walking three children down the front stairs and putting them in a vehicle parked in the driveway. There was an older model silver Holden Statesman parked directly in front of the house facing down the driveway, a white Toyota Prado was parked across the driveway and a silver Holden Captiva was reverse parked under a carport at the left of the house. There was also a blue sedan parked at the end of the house facing the drive and I parked our police vehicle behind this sedan

5. At this time there was a male person standing at the top of the stairs, this male person then walked over to our police vehicle and introduced himself to us. He said that his name was Gerard Baden Clay and that he was the one who called police to report his wife as missing. He told us his wife's name was Allison Baden Clay

6. Gerard then said that the other female person with the children was his sister as he had called her and asked her to take his children to school. Gerard then asked me to move our police vehicle to allow his sister to drive the children to school in the blue sedan. Soon after his sister drove out of the driveway with the three children

 

[possumheart]

Again, inappropriate. The three girls share those genetics.

Tempered by some far superior ones, though.

 

[Pastafarian]

One would expect footprints in the mud, or some signs of disturbance to foliage; (or at least muddy boots.) He might have obliterated those footprints though. Time factor creates some difficulty.
The body was placed rather neatly IMO. Had the body been dumped in the water, there would be the distinct possibility that it would be carried out to sea. And whoosh. Away would go the the Insurance money.
Its got me beat though how she ended up right under the bridge instead of off the side, unless he used ropes or straps or her own jumper to swing her under. And hence the upper torso abrasions.

I think he had help and we all know who

 

[Deleted member 102539]

GBC -- according to his sister, OBW -- sent those children off early to school after filling their minds with visions of their mother helpless down a hole. Children have active imaginations, particularly when frightened and worried. The 'hole' which GBC implanted in their minds would have become a giant, subterranean, dark place where their mother was trapped alone and probably crying out for help. They would see in their minds a big hole far from help. And their mother trapped, afraid, crying and calling. He further told the girls 'she probably wont be back'. Imagine that from a child's perspective

That guy is a sadist. He wants to hurt. He had it in his power to console and reassure the girls. But he did not. He deliberately withheld reassurance from them. He sent them to school filled with fear and dread and longing for their mother. He painted a graphic mental image and implanted it in those girls' minds and sent them off with that for the day

I want the jury to hear that, to imagine what he did to his children simply because he had the power to do it

Did police ask OBW what she had told the girls? Doesn't look like it. She could have volunteered further information but going from the Police Witness statement compiled by first attending police, it appeared she did not. Why didn't OBW say to the girls, ' Daddy didn't mean she fell in a hole. He meant she might have twisted her foot a little bit, that's all. And he just meant she wouldn't be back in time to take you to school. It will be alright, don't worry. I'm sure Mummy's fine and will be home when you get back from school. We might even go for a bar b que after school, eh? That'd be good, wouldn't it? Ok, now you run to class and remember, don't worry'. That's what anyone, let alone an aunt, would say to the girls, to try to take away the fear implanted by an idiot father

But no. It appears the girls received no reassurance

<modsnip> The jury needs to learn of what he told his girls and if prosecutors don't include it in material released to the jury, they're remiss imo

bbm

Yes, you are sooooooooo right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you for posting!

 

[LadyBird1]

From the Queensland Police Witness Report by Constable Keiron Ash

Quote: Gerard asked me to move our police vehicle to allow his sister to drive the children to school in the blue sedan. Soon after his sister drove out of the driveway with the children in the blue sedan

7. I now know this female person to be Olivia Walton

8. Another male person appeared from inside the house and walked over to where we were standing in the driveway and immediately put his arm around Gerard's shoulders. Gerard then introduced this person as his father -- etc.

9. I now know this male person to be Nigel Baden Clay



Then we jump to Number 28 on the Police Witness Statement


28. Shortly after Gerard's sister Olivia Walton arrived back at the address after having taken the children to school. She went upstairs into the house but quickly returned back downstairs. I asked her what the girls had been told this morning, she said " that Gerard told the girls shortly after 6 a.m. that Mummy had gone for a walk and had probably fallen down a hole and would not be back" she then asked " Is that ok?"

I was just thinking, regarding the blue sedan car that OW took the children away (to wherever) .... Did she return in the same car?

 

[Mumma Bear]

Nothing mentioned in court yet about Alison's one blonde hair found in the blood in the car. But the DNA match for the blood also wasn't mentioned, so hopefully those two bombshells are yet to come - I guess DNA evidence requires a different expert witness.

 

[frustrated detective]

3:35pm: Senior Constable Streeting could not say what "volume" of blood would have caused the stain.

He said it was not possible to determine the age of the blood stain.

"At this point in time it is not possible to date blood," he said.

"There's no way to look at a blood stain and say it's been there for x-amount of time.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ay-6-week-2-20140618-3ackc.html#ixzz34xyTAim6

Does the jury know that the car was practically new - 8 weeks from memory?

 

[marlywings]

Thanks, but that wasn't stated, was it? Only things like, 'Streeting pointed out a blood stain.' No mention if victim's/accused's blood.

From Committal Hearing...

18th Mar 2013

Senior scientist Amanda Reeves, from Queensland Forensic Services, said she got a complete DNA profile from the blood stain swab and matched it to the Brookfield mother of three.

"The DNA obtained from the sample matched the reference DNA profile of Allison Baden-Clay," she said.

http://www.dailymercury.com.au/news/mistress-tells-court-baden-clays-lie-low-request/1795712/

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Hello All, first time on WS too, but have been following this from Day 1....Thank you to all for your amazing updates.

My thoughts re the search of the home ..... something that has been bugging me for a while, where was NBC taking the vacuum and hose, could that be the place where the incident may have occured, a place to clean up any evidence ????

:welcome6:

It's a very strange thing for him to do .. I wonder, perhaps he didn't KNOW anything at all, but maybe he had his suspicions and was just taking things away he thought may hurt his son?

 

[Consider]

Does the jury know that the car was practically new - 8 weeks from memory?

Money to buy/lease a new car?

 

[laserdisc10]

I was just thinking, regarding the blue sedan car that OW took the children away (to wherever) .... Did she return in the same car?

The Police Witness Statement compiled by Constable Keiron Ash is meticulous. He states Olivia Walton returned, which is when he asked her what the children had been told that morning. It's when she said Gerard told the girls shortly after 6 a.m. --- early -- that Mummy had gone for a walk, probably fallen down a hole and wouldn't be back

I'm personally confident that if Ollivia Walton had returned in a different car after dropping the children at school, then Constable Ash would have made note of it

 

[canarybird]

From Committal Hearing...

18th Mar 2013

Senior scientist Amanda Reeves, from Queensland Forensic Services, said she got a complete DNA profile from the blood stain swab and matched it to the Brookfield mother of three.

"The DNA obtained from the sample matched the reference DNA profile of Allison Baden-Clay," she said.

http://www.dailymercury.com.au/news/mistress-tells-court-baden-clays-lie-low-request/1795712/

Thank you. Oh, that's so hard to read.

 

[LadyBird1]

Hello All, first time on WS too, but have been following this from Day 1....Thank you to all for your amazing updates.

My thoughts re the search of the home ..... something that has been bugging me for a while, where was NBC taking the vacuum and hose, could that be the place where the incident may have occured, a place to clean up any evidence ????

Welcome to WS Moonlilly!:welcome3:

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Nothing mentioned in court yet about Alison's one blonde hair found in the blood in the car. But the DNA match for the blood also wasn't mentioned, so hopefully those two bombshells are yet to come - I guess DNA evidence requires a different expert witness.

I wonder if they'll be able to tell from that strand that it was newly dyed .. no regrowth for instance?

 

[laserdisc10]

Does the jury know that the car was practically new - 8 weeks from memory?

Good question and information I've been hoping will soon be made known to the jury

 

[marlywings]

Apologies for not remembering which member asked "when did TM hear about the other women"...in that above report...

But she said she learned through police, a month after Allison went missing, that he was having affairs with two other women.

http://www.dailymercury.com.au/news/mistress-tells-court-baden-clays-lie-low-request/1795712/