The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 26th June - Trial Day 11, Week 3

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alioop said:
Don't apologise. These threads are moving very fast. The prosecution have closed their case so cannot call new witnesses or recall previous witnesses unless they apply to the judge to reopen the case. They need to show exceptional circumstances to do this.
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Thanks , much appreciated ( even thou I don't like the answer :banghead: )
 
enthralled said:
As usual I am behind in the posts. Gbc will say their relationship was not one of histrionics etc. So he didn't get abusive, verbally or physically with Allison but wasn't shy about telling colleagues that he "belted" his daughters.
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Nice reminder - thanks
 
Just curious as I can't tell from the tweets, but, were the defence asking any questions at all or was he just rabbiting on continuously??
 
Total said:
Thank you Possum for bringing it back to where we need to be.

You are soo right. Either Gerry deleted all the call records between him and TM (thereby deceiving Allison) when handing over the phone OR he handed the phone over to her (with all calls recorded on it)....as the honest man he is trying to make out ... And copped whatever came out of that. He cannot have it both ways......there will be more of this. But this is gold
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It doesn't make sense to me that Allison would take it all night anyway. Nothing to stop him getting up, making calls after she's asleep or before she gets up then deleting the call logs. He was still able to send messages and make calls to other people ie: his sales team etc, his phone bill shows that.
 
laserdisc10 said:
Well, Makara said a while ago that he'd take the stand. I didn't believe it -- didn't believe Byrne would let him
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Um, I think it was Trooper who was convinced that he would take the stand. I really didn't think that he would be so stupid! :floorlaugh:

Despite all of the BS today, I'm pleased that he did. I feel so much more confident now that he will be found guilty. He's glossed over what happened the night Allison died but rambled on ad nauseam about things that happened 13 years ago! For what purpose? Simply to paint Allison in a bad light, to drag her (figuratively speaking) through the mud, just like his family did when they testified. Something that would not be lost on the jury IMO. He is a rambling, narcissistic and he's now revealing this to all and sundry.

It's as though he's on stage and the spotlights has just settled on him. "Oh, me, me, it's all about me now. Finally! Oh goody, where do I start? Well back in 1995....."

You go Ger, love ya work! Just keep digging that hole man, not long now.

After listening to all of this crap today, I am convinced that the BC's have plucked things from here to be used by the defence. It just seems to me that a lot of things we've speculated and hypothesized about have now been mentioned by the defence. For example it has never been stated in MSM or by the police that GBC actually dragged Allison's body under the bridge, nor that he left the girls at home that night while he disposed of her body. There has been speculation about this but it certainly wasn't mentioned in the list of charges against GBC, nor did the prosecution mention any such scenario's.

Personally, I couldn't care less if the BC's are among us or just reading from the sidelines. That's there prerogative but it does seem that the suggestion that GBC left his daughters at home alone, proceeded to Kholo Creek and dragged Allison's body under the bridge has really hit a nerve with them. Too close to the truth perhaps?
 
JCB, I certainly hope not but the Defences case seems rather piecemeal - if there is anyone with an ounce of medical background on that jury , they will know that in qld last year, there was only one case of serotonin syndrome that was verified by blood tests etc


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JK673 said:
ALL MY OPINION ONLY.....

What he is doing here - by dropping the well known celebrity historical facts is trying to show that he has not made this all up - he remembers all of this BECAUSE of certain things happening around the world at that same time. Problem is - because he is doing this with everything he says - it is starting to sound contrived.

Hope the jury is smart
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I think he is also trying to make a connection with the jury. Many people remember where they were when they heard about Princess Di. He is trying to show he is "just like them", trying to be likeable.
 
possumheart said:
Are we to believe that Allison watched the footy show and sat up late, checked G's phone and saw he had been in touch with Tone, put the phone on the charger and got changed into XXL track suit pants, overdosed on zoloft and went outside, smacked her head in the back of the car, fell down and rubbed her head in the ferns, and walked off onto the night where she met Toni who threw her off a bridge?
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I fixed it for you.
 
Someone get my Wellington boots as the bullsh@t is too thick.

What a friggin tool.

Please, PLEASE shut up.
 
Tangled_Web said:
OMG I don't know where to begin. I cannot believe he took the stand.

I too had to reschedule work commitments to cope with this development. Thank goodness for a day to catch up tomorrow - and prepare for Monday.
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Me too! As soon as I read he was taking the stand I promptly shut down my computer and left my office for the day. Unfortunately I was on a one hour drive when he hit the stand so my 15 year had to read the tweets to me. Now she thinks I'm obsessed too. It was certainly all about "me" wasn't it? Oh wondrous father and long suffering husband. From what I read, it wasn't an academy award winning performance but I'm not on the jury so who knows. IMO, most people are smart enough - what were THOSE facial scratches caused by, how did Allison's blood find it's way into her new car, life insurance policies, dire financial circumstances, promises to the mistress etc etc. It sounds like the defence are grasping at straws here but why not I guess - it's the only hope he's got of getting out of this. I'm still waiting for the big "reveal" that Livvy promised way back, or was that it today? I can't wait til the prosecution start asking the tough questions - and they'd better be tough! Thanks to the tweeters and all the info shared. Much appreciated.
 
spratsmum said:
You have to be really sure of someone's feelings if they had to think about it for a week,
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There's an example of the illustrious leader I forgot. The proposal. "Dad said to ask her first in case she said no!"
 
bikerchick said:
JCB, I certainly hope not but the Defences case seems rather piecemeal - if there is anyone with an ounce of medical background on that jury , they will know that in qld last year, there was only one case of serotonin syndrome that was verified by blood tests etc


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I'll admit to being totally ignorant on that particular subject and I will defer to your superior knowledge on this. I personally don't believe it will be a deal breaker as far as the prospect of a conviction is concerned but there must be something that warrants investigating because as I said, the defence team aren't numpties and were already in a position where I believe that acquittal was more likely than conviction had they have chosen not to call evidence.
 
Is there a Forensic Psychiatrist coming up for the defence? Will he admit that there is something really wrong with Gerard? Is allowing him to ramble being used to support this? If he was my brother I would rather see him in a secure ward than Arthur Gorrie! This is no time for pride. There is something really wrong with the bloke.
 
JCB said:
Forgive me as I'm an infrequent visitor to these forums but I can only assume that your status as "Verified Attorney" indicates you are indeed a practicing lawyer. Whilst I respect your opinion as a legal practitioner, I have to disagree with much of the content in the above post.

You find it hard to believe that someone who seemed "fine" only hours before is/was capable of attempting self harm but yet we see it literally every single day. How often do you hear of a high profile suicide where friends and family express their dismay at the fact that the victim displayed no outward signs that they were contemplating life? So often it happens after a person has seemingly overcome previous obstacles, I do not speak lightly of this as members of my own family have committed suicide but the facts remain that someone who appears outwardly happy is more than capable of ending their lives. I would bet my last dollar that this will be thoroughly addressed by the forensic psychiatrist when they are called to give evidence.

You are correct in saying there is no physiological evidence to suggest that Allison jumped but is it also fair to say there is also no physiological evidence that she was the victim of a homicide? Of course this doesn't exclude either scenario, indeed barring an accident one of the scenarios did in fact occur but in my mind there is tremendous doubt, at least from a legal point of view.

While I'm sure the prosecution would have expected the defence to call certain witnesses after the rejection of their no case submission last night, I can't imagine that they would have been delighted at the prospect and when GBC elected to give evidence there would have been a collective groan throughout the prosecution team. Byrne QC is not an idiot, he knows the prosecution case is extremely weak (as evidenced by the submission yesterday afternoon, which I don't believe was without merit) and there is not a chance that he would risk the strong position of the defence if he wasn't confident that GBC and other defence witnesses could further strengthen their position.

As I've said previously, I have a strong opinion on this matter but purely from an unbiased perspective I believe the prosecution are up the creek without a paddle at this point :(
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<modsnip>. Byrne is indeed not an idiot. His summation today showed that. However, I am sure that Byrne and learned friends would have strongly counselled GBC against going on the stand. Particularly given that Danny Boyle is heading up the prosecution team, even though so far he has been 'laying low'. This is exactly what the prosecution was hoping for; A rambling, raving Gerry in the box, without assistance, to unravel himself in front of family, friends,the jury, judge, defence, prosecution, families and the world.

Isn't it amazing how many textile terms are used to describe trials. Circumstantial evidence being put together until they form a rope, and an a unused being given enough rope to hang themselves and coming unravelled in front of all and sundry.
 
JCB said:
Forgive me as I'm an infrequent visitor to these forums but I can only assume that your status as "Verified Attorney" indicates you are indeed a practicing lawyer. Whilst I respect your opinion as a legal practitioner, I have to disagree with much of the content in the above post.

You find it hard to believe that someone who seemed "fine" only hours before is/was capable of attempting self harm but yet we see it literally every single day. How often do you hear of a high profile suicide where friends and family express their dismay at the fact that the victim displayed no outward signs that they were contemplating life? So often it happens after a person has seemingly overcome previous obstacles, I do not speak lightly of this as members of my own family have committed suicide but the facts remain that someone who appears outwardly happy is more than capable of ending their lives. I would bet my last dollar that this will be thoroughly addressed by the forensic psychiatrist when they are called to give evidence.

You are correct in saying there is no physiological evidence to suggest that Allison jumped but is it also fair to say there is also no physiological evidence that she was the victim of a homicide? Of course this doesn't exclude either scenario, indeed barring an accident one of the scenarios did in fact occur but in my mind there is tremendous doubt, at least from a legal point of view.

While I'm sure the prosecution would have expected the defence to call certain witnesses after the rejection of their no case submission last night, I can't imagine that they would have been delighted at the prospect and when GBC elected to give evidence there would have been a collective groan throughout the prosecution team. Byrne QC is not an idiot, he knows the prosecution case is extremely weak (as evidenced by the submission yesterday afternoon, which I don't believe was without merit) and there is not a chance that he would risk the strong position of the defence if he wasn't confident that GBC and other defence witnesses could further strengthen their position.

As I've said previously, I have a strong opinion on this matter but purely from an unbiased perspective I believe the prosecution are up the creek without a paddle at this point :(
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I seriously disagree JCB - I think that this is GBC deciding to take the stand, in a last ditch attempt to save himself and its probably against the advice of his esteemed QC or Barrister, Mr. Byrne. GBC simply has nothing to lose at this point. GBC can lie , weave a story and wax lyrical. I think if GBC remained quiet then dear Mr. Byrne would be able to contain the collateral damage of this case but now that that GBC is on the stand what we can expect in the wake of his testimony would be quite worrying to the defense Barristers. He is a loose cannon. He has no reality - he makes it up as he goes along - so I see poor GBC coming off second best here.
 
JCB said:
Forgive me as I'm an infrequent visitor to these forums but I can only assume that your status as "Verified Attorney" indicates you are indeed a practicing lawyer. Whilst I respect your opinion as a legal practitioner, I have to disagree with much of the content in the above post.

You find it hard to believe that someone who seemed "fine" only hours before is/was capable of attempting self harm but yet we see it literally every single day. How often do you hear of a high profile suicide where friends and family express their dismay at the fact that the victim displayed no outward signs that they were contemplating ending their life? So often it happens after a person has seemingly overcome previous obstacles, I do not speak lightly of this as members of my own family have committed suicide but the facts remain that someone who appears outwardly happy is more than capable of ending their lives. I would bet my last dollar that this will be thoroughly addressed by the forensic psychiatrist when they are called to give evidence.

You are correct in saying there is no physiological evidence to suggest that Allison jumped but is it also fair to say there is also no physiological evidence that she was the victim of a homicide? Of course this doesn't exclude either scenario, indeed barring an accident one of the scenarios did in fact occur but in my mind there is tremendous doubt, at least from a legal point of view.

While I'm sure the prosecution would have expected the defence to call certain witnesses after the rejection of their no case submission last night, I can't imagine that they would have been delighted at the prospect and when GBC elected to give evidence there would have been a collective groan throughout the prosecution team. Byrne QC is not an idiot, he knows the prosecution case is extremely weak (as evidenced by the submission yesterday afternoon, which I don't believe was without merit) and there is not a chance that he would risk the strong position of the defence if he wasn't confident that GBC and other defence witnesses could further strengthen their position.

As I've said previously, I have a strong opinion on this matter but purely from an unbiased perspective I believe the prosecution are up the creek without a paddle at this point :(
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Actually you don't know that for a fact, that is your opinion. Please read the autopsy report, its quite revealing.

Imo, GBC taking the stand will be his undoing. He's shown to have a perfect memory of past events, achievements, ailments, you name it. Let's see how he goes when he's cross examined about events in April 2012. If it's all 'I can't recall, I can't remember', well..... jmo :)
 
And these.... Are the days.... Of our Lives.... Cue the long stare.....
 
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