CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #9

[dotr]

OT..

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4604914-ptsd-support-group-born-from-death-of-hamilton-cop/

" For the past five weeks a very small, self-selected group of Hamilton police officers has been gathering in secret to share experiences of debilitating pain, fear, isolation and withdrawal.

The officers are suffering from post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and for once, and finally, they're talking about it — getting help and helping each other.

It is perhaps fitting, that the Hamilton Employees Lifeline Peer Network (HELP-Net) should rise from a community shocked and torn by the very public death by suicide of Staff Sergeant Ian Matthews last December in the locker-room at police headquarters.

"It was never meant to memorialize or condone what Ian did, but to use it as a catalyst," Sergeant Helena Pereira explained, pointing out she doesn't even know if the popular detective had been suffering from PTSD."

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

This is going to sound crazy but I can't help it - I've always had a niggling feeling that IM's suicide was in some way connected to the unsolved case of Audrey's murder. Was he being thwarted in his work? Did he come across something really horrible regarding the first investigation?

??????????????????????????

 

[Paragirl]

<rsbm>

The Amazing Grace melody was "more beer, more beer". The google cache no longer works, but here's my old post:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, viciously murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario

What??!! Hmmmmm... I obviously missed this post when I was first getting up to speed on this thread. I also have always believed that those emails were sent by someone other than AG...more food for thought...

 

[Simply Caustic]

I'm brand new to this case, having stumbled across it while looking up Bosma case information.

I've read the articles that were written in the Spec newspaper. Is there anywhere else I should look for information? Thanks everyone


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[Paragirl]

I'm brand new to this case, having stumbled across it while looking up Bosma case information.

I've read the articles that were written in the Spec newspaper. Is there anywhere else I should look for information? Thanks everyone


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Welcome! I would start with the Media Thread and then, unfortunately (because it is a LOT of reading), the best way to get up to speed would be to read through the previous threads.

Here's the Media Thread:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226740


Here's the link to thread #1:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124074&highlight=audrey+gleave

At the end of each thread will be a mod post with a link to the next thread.

HTH

 

[Chorley8]

This is going to sound crazy but I can't help it - I've always had a niggling feeling that IM's suicide was in some way connected to the unsolved case of Audrey's murder. Was he being thwarted in his work? Did he come across something really horrible regarding the first investigation?

??????????????????????????

If that is what it was.

 

[dotr]

Audrey is still listed .. maybe they don't mind having this case posted about here!

http://www.hamiltonpolice.on.ca/HPS/CrimeFiles/Help+Us+Solve+This+Crime/

" HELP US SOLVE THESE CRIMES


The Hamilton Police are asking the public for their assistance in solving the following crimes. If you have any information regarding the cases seen here you are asked to call the contact number listed in the file and refer to the case number provided."


From the link, I was reminded of this case, which has some similarities to AG" murder....
bbm.


http://www.hamiltonpolice.on.ca/HPS/CrimeFiles/Help+Us+Solve+This+Crime/Landing.htm?CurPage=2

"On December 2nd, 2004 at approximately 11:30 a.m. Hamilton Police responded to an apartment at 226 Rebecca Street in the City of Hamilton. Upon entering the apartment they discovered the body of 79-year-old Thelma Clapham.

Ms. Clapham died as a result of blunt force trauma in her ninth floor apartment, where she had lived alone for the past four years. There was no sign of forced entry to the apartment.

Hamilton Police Service Major Crime Unit is seeking the community&#8217;s help in their continuing investigation into the killing of Thelma Clapham. The investigation, which has included police interviewing over a hundred and fifty people and forensic work, has painted part of the picture. Police now have information that a female may have been involved in this crime. Although no weapon has been recovered investigators also believe they know what was used to kill the victim."

 

[Deleted member 102539]

This is going to sound crazy but I can't help it - I've always had a niggling feeling that IM's suicide was in some way connected to the unsolved case of Audrey's murder. Was he being thwarted in his work? Did he come across something really horrible regarding the first investigation?

??????????????????????????

Thank you, NSU! I'm on your side with the direction of thoughts ...!

 

[Pink Panther]

I will go one step further to state that whoever gave the Spec picture 1/4 of this article was somehow involved. In a million years, Audrey would not have wanted that pic posted on the internet and she seems happy and relaxed with whoever took it.

My 2 cents.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2123220-audrey-s-case-gets-colder/

ETA - Is it possible to find out who gave the media this picture?

 

[ArianeEmory]

I will go one step further to state that whoever gave the Spec picture 1/4 of this article was somehow involved. In a million years, Audrey would not have wanted that pic posted on the internet and she seems happy and relaxed with whoever took it.

My 2 cents.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2123220-audrey-s-case-gets-colder/

ETA - Is it possible to find out who gave the media this picture?

Random/lurker, but...isn't 1 of 4 in the link you provided a picture of her taking her own picture in a bathroom mirror?


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[No_Stone_Unturned]

Random/lurker, but...isn't 1 of 4 in the link you provided a picture of her taking her own picture in a bathroom mirror?


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I think we've talked about this pic before and we all agreed that #4 is an unflattering pic of Audrey. We agreed that anyone who gave this pic to whomever had unkind intentions toward Audrey.

:twocents:

 

[amron]

I highly doubt Audrey was murdered by a serial killer. I still think her killing was up front and personal. And.......like FG, I'm still looking at the same person I was looking at from the start. :tantrum:

That said, as you can see, I'm trying to find anyone else who might have killed Audrey. But in my heart, I'm still looking at my first 'suspect'.

A serial killer would be unknown to Audrey. There was no forced entry. Would the Audrey we've come to know allow a complete stranger into her home? Not a chance!

:twocents:

Yes, I am still convinced it is my "first suspect" as well.

 

[Chorley8]

But in photos of the garage tree cover is very close by: would be possible for someone to sneak in the garage after her. Not my dominant theory. We also have the strange comment by P.K. that she would sit with some odd characters who passed by on the bench in the garage. Strange because it flies in the face of what we o/w know about Audrey. But IF TRUE it would open a possibility. The garage and the garage bench does seem to have been an important locus: so significant she was killed there (if she was we don't know enough about whether the crime scene included the house except we know papers were missing supposedly). It does lead slightly (to me) away from some people's 'dominant suspect' here.

Query: the one person who says they were in the house quite a bit, even claiming knowledge of her bedroom and bathroom: do we have any other testimony that that is the case?

Also: so you are sitting on the bench with Audrey (say LV) and you want to ask to use the washroom. Wouldn't that happen at some point? Did Audrey say no? I have to admit I would find that quite strange and offputting. Overall I think we err in trying to normalize Audrey a bit too much here. She was a character for sure, and eccentric. Never made P.K. a cup of coffee even? Cuts people off using her real name? Won't (I assume) let anyone use her washroom? Of course all up to her but strange. I would expect someone with her car to be a bit more sociable. Some kind of contradiction there. I have absolutely no proof I'm afraid but I think the "hoarding" references to Audrey might refer to real fact or myth that she kept something of value in the house. That would open up the financial motive for us but there is NO evidence. On the other hand the missing papers" story and the story about the executor going from bank to bank asking if Audrey had an account there strike me as lame and contrived. And how would LV know what was missing? I lead strongly towards financial motive (at least partially) with either something kept in the house or missing accounts. There is at least a tiny bit of possible evidence for the latter (the lame comments about missing papers and bank hunt).

As you can see I am running in circles.

 

[ArianeEmory]

I think we've talked about this pic before and we all agreed that #4 is an unflattering pic of Audrey. We agreed that anyone who gave this pic to whomever had unkind intentions toward Audrey.

:twocents:

Sorry, my confusion was in the wording I quoted that someone "took" (made) the picture, but it looks like she's taking her own picture in a mirror. Meaning, I don't think anyone else is in the room. I am not familiar with this case, though, I was just thread surfing last night and wanted to make sure I am looking at the right picture.


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[No_Stone_Unturned]

Yes Chorley8, we're all running in circles here but hopefully these circles will one day lead us out of the maze. OK, here's my little theory:

Audrey was killed by someone she knew. I also think the killer was inside Audrey's house for a lengthy bit of time.....days. From late on the 27th onwards. The killer sent the two Amazing Grace vids. If *I* were the killer, I'd let the entire world know that I had been allowed into Audrey's kitchen, bathroom, bedroom, everywhere because the killer's DNA/prints will be everywhere. I'd lie through my teeth if I had to do so in order to save myself from LE. Audrey was dead; who could prove me wrong?

Now, my lies probably wouldn't stand up to a polygraph test but I'd take my chances and hope LE wouldn't polygraph me. Why not? Because I'm such a nice, honest friend of Audrey's.

The motive I have is twofold:

The first is a sexual one. I feel the killing happened (and the mutilation) as a result of the killer's feelings for Audrey. I'll go even further here - perhaps Audrey had been intimate with the killer prior to the day she was killed. And secondly, I feel the killing had a financial motive. Audrey owed the killer something. Money. Intelligence. Promises. Scientific knowledge. So, the combined motives - sex + greed (for something) caused the killer to kill.

So far, this killer has gone free. But I still have my sights set on one (possibly two) people to have done the killing. The second person I have in mind is only a wild hunch. I'm stuck on my first "suspect" (for lack of a better word) as the killer.

Finally, I feel that this killing was well planned out. Long before the 30th of December, 2010. And for the killer, it has paid off.......so far......

*I know I've used the word KILLER a great deal in this post. I'm hoping the killer is reading our words here and that word will somehow cause him/her to trip up.*

:twocents:

ETA:

Quoted from Chorley8:

Query: the one person who says they were in the house quite a bit, even claiming knowledge of her bedroom and bathroom: do we have any other testimony that that is the case?


I don't think so. If memory serves, we only have that person's word for it.

 

[Chorley8]

Query: the one person who says they were in the house quite a bit, even claiming knowledge of her bedroom and bathroom: do we have any other testimony that that is the case?


I don't think so. If memory serves, we only have that person's word for it. No Stone

So that fits with: 1. close relationship or 2. person looking around the house for "something" after the murder. BUT......would they not have blood on them? so....they could go home then come back or 3. Fits well with No Stone's 2 perps theory.

IF there was a close relationship I wonder if the younger had a new relationship jealousy could come into it. Again, I think we might make a little more progress if we stop protecting Audrey quite as much as we do. Could she have had a petty side, a jealous side? Could she have broken a promise reneged on something? I wonder who really started the conversation about Audrey's musings about what would happen after her death. Actually my biggest clue for No Stone's person is still the story about the store visit and the theft of the "part" which matches the theft of the body part - and that whole story does includes 2 perps one running interference whatever that means....reason is that I think that story which I take to be BS emerged unconsciously even post-traumatically. And I wonder when they said LE was asking them about stuff from the threads here if that was not something LE alluded to...going back to that store visit story. Have to be vague sorry if this makes no sense to some.

Also was the garage code really given out by Audrey? Or did the one person who knew it divine it somehow? Because that part of the story never made sense: it was for emergencies only yet on the day the body phoned they go right there and open the door with the info that was just for emergencies.

<modsnip>

Again maybe overthinking but someone close (interferer??) uses tag first part of the saying/pun "I see said the blind man" most common continuation is "with his hammer and he (his my addition) saw". And this is close to "Was blind and now I see". (Amazing Grace") And was there not a small saw found near the scene? Are hammer and saw the weapons?

And "nothing ventured nothing gained". So there are two communications A. Grace and the phoney motor site. I agree with the notion of perp/s being in the house for a while either with Audrey (contained) or deceased.

I wonder if A's friiend said my buddy or brother is with me and is terrified of dogs whether Audrey would kennel them? Don't know.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Query: the one person who says they were in the house quite a bit, even claiming knowledge of her bedroom and bathroom: do we have any other testimony that that is the case?


I don't think so. If memory serves, we only have that person's word for it. No Stone

So that fits with: 1. close relationship or 2. person looking around the house for "something" after the murder. BUT......would they not have blood on them? so....they could go home then come back or 3. Fits well with No Stone's 2 perps theory.

IF there was a close relationship I wonder if the younger had a new relationship jealousy could come into it. Again, I think we might make a little more progress if we stop protecting Audrey quite as much as we do. Could she have had a petty side, a jealous side? Could she have broken a promise reneged on something? I wonder who really started the conversation about Audrey's musings about what would happen after her death. Actually my biggest clue for No Stone's person is still the story about the store visit and the theft of the "part" which matches the theft of the body part - and that whole story does includes 2 perps one running interference whatever that means....reason is that I think that story which I take to be BS emerged unconsciously even post-traumatically. And I wonder when they said LE was asking them about stuff from the threads here if that was not something LE alluded to...going back to that store visit story. Have to be vague sorry if this makes no sense to some.

Also was the garage code really given out by Audrey? Or did the one person who knew it divine it somehow? Because that part of the story never made sense: it was for emergencies only yet on the day the body phoned they go right there and open the door with the info that was just for emergencies.

<modsnip>

Again maybe overthinking but someone close (interferer??) uses tag first part of the saying/pun "I see said the blind man" most common continuation is "with his hammer and he (his my addition) saw". And this is close to "Was blind and now I see". (Amazing Grace") And was there not a small saw found near the scene? Are hammer and saw the weapons?

And "nothing ventured nothing gained". So there are two communications A. Grace and the phoney motor site. I agree with the notion of perp/s being in the house for a while either with Audrey (contained) or deceased.

I wonder if A's friiend said my buddy or brother is with me and is terrified of dogs whether Audrey would kennel them? Don't know.

I have problems to retrace all your thoughts because of them being vague (I know for the reason :smile. Bbm , I think it's important. The mailbox part story is ambiguous? I don't know.

 

[Paragirl]

So I wonder if there is anyone in Audrey's circle of friends whose absence would/could have gone unnoticed by their family/friends if they spent days at her home over the holiday season?


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[No_Stone_Unturned]

So I wonder if there is anyone in Audrey's circle of friends whose absence would/could have gone unnoticed by their family/friends if they spent days at her home over the holiday season?


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The way I've been thinking about it is that the killer had Audrey contain the dogs, killed her inside the house. The killer left her inside the house and returned to his/her daily life (family, friends. holiday schedule). I think the killer returned from time to time to clean up the dogs' area - remember, we were told by someone (MSM, LE?) that there wasn't a mess left in the dogs' area. Then I believe the killer placed Audrey's body out in the garage in order to be found later.

While the killer was inside the house, he/she sent the song vids and made certain his/her DNA was in many rooms in the house.

I highly doubt the killer remained in the house from the 27th to the 30th. I think he/she came and went so as to not alarm family at the holiday season. Since Audrey was dead who could argue about the fact to his/her family?

:twocents:

 

[Deleted member 102539]

The way I've been thinking about it is that the killer had Audrey contain the dogs, killed her inside the house. The killer left her inside the house and returned to his/her daily life (family, friends. holiday schedule). I think the killer returned from time to time to clean up the dogs' area - remember, we were told by someone (MSM, LE?) that there wasn't a mess left in the dogs' area. Then I believe the killer placed Audrey's body out in the garage in order to be found later.

While the killer was inside the house, he/she sent the song vids and made certain his/her DNA was in many rooms in the house.

I highly doubt the killer remained in the house from the 27th to the 30th. I think he/she came and went so as to not alarm family at the holiday season. Since Audrey was dead who could argue about the fact to his/her family?

BUT why Audrey keep in captivity? Cleaning the dog area - makes sense. IF it was not our no. one, the perp had to have fear of suddenly visiting by no. one. IF it was no. one - why? - It would have been risky for everyone, no. one or not.