it is normally appropriate for the Judge to convey these things to a jury , on the basis that the "State "( the judge, the jury and the court) hold the balance of power.. to lean towards the defendant, or to appear to is par for the course..
The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 9th July - Trial Day 17
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it is normally appropriate for the Judge to convey these things to a jury , on the basis that the "State "( the judge, the jury and the court) hold the balance of power.. to lean towards the defendant, or to appear to is par for the course..
Humdinger
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I know everyone e has been emotional all through, but how are you all now??
I've not been able to follow as much as I'd have liked due to school holidays and doing things with the kids etc. so I'm usually really behind and I try catch up at night. So I've not contributed much, but the contributions of others haven't gone unnoticed!
Anyways... I'm unbelievably emotional today, on tenterhooks and keep crying at every but I read in here...
We are so close, so so close...
I'm sure he'll get convicted, just as Simon Gittany did but I'm feeling exactly the same way what we wait!
Take care everyone and bug huggles to you all. Hopefully soon we can 'pop a bottle'
Xo
I've not been able to follow as much as I'd have liked due to school holidays and doing things with the kids etc. so I'm usually really behind and I try catch up at night. So I've not contributed much, but the contributions of others haven't gone unnoticed!
Anyways... I'm unbelievably emotional today, on tenterhooks and keep crying at every but I read in here...
We are so close, so so close...
I'm sure he'll get convicted, just as Simon Gittany did but I'm feeling exactly the same way what we wait!
Take care everyone and bug huggles to you all. Hopefully soon we can 'pop a bottle'
Xo
Timmy
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It's that whole 'tangled web' thing, hey?
Amee
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11.42am: Mr Fuller told the jury Baden-Clay contacted his mistress Toni McHugh and tells her he loves her.
“Is that just to retain her loyalty in all of this? What loyalty is there to retain when all he has said to her is just tell the truth?” he asks.
Mr Fuller said the accused wanted to see her because she had learned about other women he’d had sex with during police interviews following Ms Baden-Clay’s disappearance.
“He feels the need to explain himself… he told her to fall in love with someone else because `things weren’t looking good for me’,” he said.
Mr Fuller said Baden-Clay had throughout his relationship with Ms McHugh manipulated her and kept it from others who were close to him: wife, parents, work mates.
“A man who admits to you he is willing to do and say whatever he needs to keep up the status quo,” he said.
He said the accused was confident in the loyalty of Ms McHugh.
“You might think to this day it is all about him, his life, his business, his needs,” he said.
He showed the jury a page from Ms Baden-Clay’s journal again, written on April 18, 2012.
Mr Fuller said Ms Baden-Clay wrote about finding the “whole thing so dirty”, tempered with “maybe I’m prudent?”
“But we know how she feels because the last thing she writes is she still gets sick to her stomach,” he said.
“He had the opportunity, ladies and gentlemen, he had access to the vehicle that contains the blood of his wife, he lives in the house where the combination of leaves were found in his wife’s hair is an exact match.
“He has the scratches on his right cheek, he lies about those scratches. He attempts to disguise them. We have long-term tension in the relationship with his wife and despite counselling and a need to confront his behaviour, it hasn’t changed.
Gerard Baden-Clay has been accused of murdering his wife Allison. Picture: Richter Nathan
Mr Fuller said there was tension in Baden-Clay’s relationship with Ms McHugh.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226982264933
“Is that just to retain her loyalty in all of this? What loyalty is there to retain when all he has said to her is just tell the truth?” he asks.
Mr Fuller said the accused wanted to see her because she had learned about other women he’d had sex with during police interviews following Ms Baden-Clay’s disappearance.
“He feels the need to explain himself… he told her to fall in love with someone else because `things weren’t looking good for me’,” he said.
Mr Fuller said Baden-Clay had throughout his relationship with Ms McHugh manipulated her and kept it from others who were close to him: wife, parents, work mates.
“A man who admits to you he is willing to do and say whatever he needs to keep up the status quo,” he said.
He said the accused was confident in the loyalty of Ms McHugh.
“You might think to this day it is all about him, his life, his business, his needs,” he said.
He showed the jury a page from Ms Baden-Clay’s journal again, written on April 18, 2012.
Mr Fuller said Ms Baden-Clay wrote about finding the “whole thing so dirty”, tempered with “maybe I’m prudent?”
“But we know how she feels because the last thing she writes is she still gets sick to her stomach,” he said.
“He had the opportunity, ladies and gentlemen, he had access to the vehicle that contains the blood of his wife, he lives in the house where the combination of leaves were found in his wife’s hair is an exact match.
“He has the scratches on his right cheek, he lies about those scratches. He attempts to disguise them. We have long-term tension in the relationship with his wife and despite counselling and a need to confront his behaviour, it hasn’t changed.
Gerard Baden-Clay has been accused of murdering his wife Allison. Picture: Richter Nathan
Mr Fuller said there was tension in Baden-Clay’s relationship with Ms McHugh.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226982264933
Amee
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Mr Fuller said there was tension in Baden-Clay’s relationship with Ms McHugh.
“We don’t have to rely on what they are saying we have it in black and white in those four emails,” he said.
He said there was tension in Baden-Clay’s business and the money he owed his close friends.
Mr Fuller said Baden-Clay discussed his relationship with Ms McHugh on the same night his wife disappeared.
“We have the real prospect of his wife and Toni McHugh coming together, the real prospect of him finally being exposed for the man that he was. The way he was finally exposed in this trial,” he said.
Mr Fuller said the accused had a lot to lose.
“This wasn’t about the pressures on her, her mental health, the drug usage, her wandering off in the middle of the night completely inexplicably. This was a man having to deal with consequences of his own actions, actions over a long period. Perhaps he felt he had no other choice, no other choice but to take his wife’s life,” he said.
“That’s not to say it’s premeditated, but when a decision had to be made that decision was made and consistent with how he behaved in his relationship up until that time with both of those women, he calmly and rationally decided to cover it up.”
He said the jury might find it highly unusual for Ms Baden-Clay to have been in the grip of a depressive episode or suffering from Serotonin Syndrome when she was a long-term Zoloft user.
Mr Fuller said the jury might think it was unusual a person would cut themselves with a razor when they looked like fingernail scratches.
“The scratches on his face show he was in close contact with his wife, that she was struggling… It was close, it was personal, it was violent,” he said.
“As I said yesterday, it was effective. What could have been in this man’s mind as he carried that out..? His frustrations from his marriage?... The double life? The risk to him of it all coming crashing down?
“Like he told Carmel Ritchie, he just wanted to wipe the slate clean.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226982264933
“We don’t have to rely on what they are saying we have it in black and white in those four emails,” he said.
He said there was tension in Baden-Clay’s business and the money he owed his close friends.
Mr Fuller said Baden-Clay discussed his relationship with Ms McHugh on the same night his wife disappeared.
“We have the real prospect of his wife and Toni McHugh coming together, the real prospect of him finally being exposed for the man that he was. The way he was finally exposed in this trial,” he said.
Mr Fuller said the accused had a lot to lose.
“This wasn’t about the pressures on her, her mental health, the drug usage, her wandering off in the middle of the night completely inexplicably. This was a man having to deal with consequences of his own actions, actions over a long period. Perhaps he felt he had no other choice, no other choice but to take his wife’s life,” he said.
“That’s not to say it’s premeditated, but when a decision had to be made that decision was made and consistent with how he behaved in his relationship up until that time with both of those women, he calmly and rationally decided to cover it up.”
He said the jury might find it highly unusual for Ms Baden-Clay to have been in the grip of a depressive episode or suffering from Serotonin Syndrome when she was a long-term Zoloft user.
Mr Fuller said the jury might think it was unusual a person would cut themselves with a razor when they looked like fingernail scratches.
“The scratches on his face show he was in close contact with his wife, that she was struggling… It was close, it was personal, it was violent,” he said.
“As I said yesterday, it was effective. What could have been in this man’s mind as he carried that out..? His frustrations from his marriage?... The double life? The risk to him of it all coming crashing down?
“Like he told Carmel Ritchie, he just wanted to wipe the slate clean.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226982264933
D
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Good morning!
04:04am in Germany. After semifinal FIFA World Cup (Brazil-Germany 1:7 :smile I couldn't sleep until now.
Trying now ended, I'm there to watch the trial.
Justice for Allison
04:04am in Germany. After semifinal FIFA World Cup (Brazil-Germany 1:7 :smile
I couldn't sleep until now.Trying now ended, I'm there to watch the trial.
Justice for Allison
Amee
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11.59am: Supreme Court Justice John Byrne began his summary of the trial to the jury.
He told the jury they were the judges of the facts and not to be influenced by media reports or events outside of the court hearing.
Justice Byrne told the jury they could draw inferences and make deductions from the evidence.
He said the jury could assess witnesses for credibility and to help them determine the strength and reliability of their evidence.
Justice Byrne said the evidence of a witness could be deemed unreliable for many reasons, he said an observation of something said or done was prone to being mistaken and memory faded with time.
He said memory could be affected by stress and other distractions. He said it could also be distorted through the suggestibility of others.
“Some people can come to believe they said things which they did not say but afterwards wish they had said,” he said.
Justice Byrne said there was a need for care in evaluating the reliability of witness testimony.
He told them to take care when assessing the reliability of neighbours who heard, for example, “sounds in the night” around Brookfield.
He took the jury to the burden of proof, which rested on the prosecution to prove the guilt of the accused.
Justice Byrne said Baden-Clay was presumed to be innocent and could only be convicted if the prosecution established he was guilty.
He said the prosecution had to prove the guilt of the accused beyond a reasonable doubt.
He told the jury if it was left with a reasonable doubt about guilt, it’s duty was to acquit: find not guilty.
Justice Byrne said this was a circumstantial case as no one had seen the accused kill his wife.
He said it was not necessary for facts to be proved with direct evidence, and they could also be proven through direct, circumstantial evidence or both.
Justice Byrne said the jury should dismiss all feelings of sympathy or prejudice in the trial.
“No such emotion has any part in your decision,” he said.
He said the accused was not obliged to give or produce evidence in the trial.
Justice Byrne said the burden of proof had not shifted to the accused because he chose to give evidence, and it still rested with the prosecution.
He said the jury should not hold it against the accused that he did not provide a formal statement to police
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226982264933
He told the jury they were the judges of the facts and not to be influenced by media reports or events outside of the court hearing.
Justice Byrne told the jury they could draw inferences and make deductions from the evidence.
He said the jury could assess witnesses for credibility and to help them determine the strength and reliability of their evidence.
Justice Byrne said the evidence of a witness could be deemed unreliable for many reasons, he said an observation of something said or done was prone to being mistaken and memory faded with time.
He said memory could be affected by stress and other distractions. He said it could also be distorted through the suggestibility of others.
“Some people can come to believe they said things which they did not say but afterwards wish they had said,” he said.
Justice Byrne said there was a need for care in evaluating the reliability of witness testimony.
He told them to take care when assessing the reliability of neighbours who heard, for example, “sounds in the night” around Brookfield.
He took the jury to the burden of proof, which rested on the prosecution to prove the guilt of the accused.
Justice Byrne said Baden-Clay was presumed to be innocent and could only be convicted if the prosecution established he was guilty.
He said the prosecution had to prove the guilt of the accused beyond a reasonable doubt.
He told the jury if it was left with a reasonable doubt about guilt, it’s duty was to acquit: find not guilty.
Justice Byrne said this was a circumstantial case as no one had seen the accused kill his wife.
He said it was not necessary for facts to be proved with direct evidence, and they could also be proven through direct, circumstantial evidence or both.
Justice Byrne said the jury should dismiss all feelings of sympathy or prejudice in the trial.
“No such emotion has any part in your decision,” he said.
He said the accused was not obliged to give or produce evidence in the trial.
Justice Byrne said the burden of proof had not shifted to the accused because he chose to give evidence, and it still rested with the prosecution.
He said the jury should not hold it against the accused that he did not provide a formal statement to police
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226982264933
It is. One couldn't have made a bigger mess if they tried.
Brightbird
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I'm not surprised. I think the conference and the chance of Allison finding out the affair was ongoing was the final straw. If Allison left him, his business would be ruined, his image in the community would be shattered, he'd be exposed as a fake. I think it was the affair that had the most potential to unravel everything for him, and it was completely out of his hands.
Total
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None whatsoever...even more so.
Phantom's Diana
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Not me I've always thought he did it just hope the 12 jurors believe so too!
drsleuth
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Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · 13s
The jury is back. #badenclay
The judge is explaining the difference between murder and manslaughter. #badenclay
Judge says on murder, they must be satisfied he caused the death of his wife with intent to kill or cause grievous bodily harm. #badenclay
The jury is back. #badenclay
The judge is explaining the difference between murder and manslaughter. #badenclay
Judge says on murder, they must be satisfied he caused the death of his wife with intent to kill or cause grievous bodily harm. #badenclay
PrimeSuspect
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Francene Norton ‏@francenenorton 1m
Byrne explains the elements of the charge of murder.
Byrne: you must be convinced beyond reasonable doubt on two distinct elements...
Byrne explains the elements of the charge of murder.
Byrne: you must be convinced beyond reasonable doubt on two distinct elements...
drsleuth
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Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · 6s
Judge says manslaughter is unlawful killing but intention to harm is not involved. #badenclay
Judge says neither prosecution or defence contends manslaughter. #badenclay
Judge says motive is not material to murder or manslaughter. #badenclay
Judge says manslaughter is unlawful killing but intention to harm is not involved. #badenclay
Judge says neither prosecution or defence contends manslaughter. #badenclay
Judge says motive is not material to murder or manslaughter. #badenclay
PrimeSuspect
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Francene Norton ‏@francenenorton 1m
Byrne: the indictment charge is murder. An alternative however is manslaughter.
Byrne: were you to find the accused not guilty of murder, you would consider whether he is guilty or not guilty of manslaughter.
Byrne: the indictment charge is murder. An alternative however is manslaughter.
Byrne: were you to find the accused not guilty of murder, you would consider whether he is guilty or not guilty of manslaughter.
Timmy
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Those scratches put paid to that!
PrimeSuspect
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Francene Norton ‏@francenenorton 1m
Byrne: but intention to harm is not an element of manslaughter.
Byrne: here, the pros does not have to establish a possible motive for the Accused to have murdered his wife.
David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 1m
I am required by law to tell you this, not because I have a view - Justice Byrne
Byrne: but intention to harm is not an element of manslaughter.
Byrne: here, the pros does not have to establish a possible motive for the Accused to have murdered his wife.
David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 1m
I am required by law to tell you this, not because I have a view - Justice Byrne
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