About six hours' worth, give or take.
The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 9th July - Trial Day 17
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UnfoldingTruth
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So this theory means you are going with the premeditated angle? I swing between the two at times. Sometimes I think it was preplanned for some time(just not when etc), Other times I think it was planned, but only in the hours or possible day or so before Allisons death. Occasionally I think maybe it was a spare of the moment thing. But given all the evidence I am thinking there was definitely intent and leaning towards premeditated.( I definitely think there was thought about it being a way out when he was stuck in this bind with all the pressures- but whether he actually seriously thought of doing it with the intention of carrying it through- that I sway on sometimes)
Freya1977
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How do you propose it happened? How did it get back there, in a near-new car?
You rip a fingernail or hurt your finger and blood does not stream out. It oozes, unless it's a serious wound. There is no evidence that Allison ever injured herself in the 8 weeks they'd owned that car, let alone inside the car itself.
If she had a nosebleed, for example, her face would need to be up against there way in the back of the car. Highly unlikely.
How many times has anyone here ever injured themselves in their car to a point where they've left blood stains in it? Never happened to me. Curious if it's ever happened to anyone else here.
Really, if Gerard didn't do it, he us absolutely the unluckiest man in the world to have all these circumstances which point to guilt.
Freya1977
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They are not going to deliberate on weekends either, not sure if that was noted here this morning.
Sorry Alioop the quote didn't come up. It was something to do with how the jury was to handle certain kinds of evidence to do with things that Alison had told people or something like that. I will go back later and try to find it exactly.
marlywings
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Many thanks to all who helped with the updates & reports from court...fantastic work all of you!!
Thankyou to everyone for being here for Allison!!
Thankyou to everyone for being here for Allison!!
UnfoldingTruth
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lol..not just the jury!
Crime and punishment
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Sorry just saw your message... I missed a couple of pages.
Thank you Freya, will they sit on Friday, or do they ll go away and come back on Monday? I am finding some of these rules quite ridiculous. They don't sit on a Friday, they start at 10am, have a long lunch break and finish just before 4pm.
No matter what we think of GBC, we are talking about a decision on the rest of a mans life, surely once it has got to this stage, that decision should be given every chance to be decided and delivered as quickly as possible
marlywings
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What does jury duty pay in NSW, QLD, WA, VIC, ACT, NT, TAS and SA?
June 12, 2014
GETTING summonsed for jury duty is a mixed bag. Some people relish the idea of taking part in getting to know the ins and outs of the justice system and being able to serve the community. Or maybe you’ve always wanted to live out the “order” part of that Law & Order episode.
http://www.news.com.au/finance/mone...ct-nt-tas-and-sa/story-e6frfmcr-1226951654267
BIB. Good strong direction re 'a consciousness of guilt' IMO.
marlywings
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From above link...
Queensland
Jurors receive $113 a day, or $565 a week, up to 19 days. From day 20 onwards, jurors receive $150.75 a day, or $753.75 a week.
Public transport costs will be covered by the court and you will get a meal allowance if you break for lunch.
Queensland employers have to make up the difference in pay for the whole period of jury service.
Queensland
Jurors receive $113 a day, or $565 a week, up to 19 days. From day 20 onwards, jurors receive $150.75 a day, or $753.75 a week.
Public transport costs will be covered by the court and you will get a meal allowance if you break for lunch.
Queensland employers have to make up the difference in pay for the whole period of jury service.
Amee
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4.20pm: Justice John Byrne told the jury it should be satisfied the conduct of the accused was able to be explained in another way, for example, as a result of panic, before drawing an inference that was adverse to him.
He told the jury to carefully consider the conduct of the accused.
He said the accused testified he did not kill his wife and was never scratched by her.
Justice Byrne said Baden-Clay told the jury he got the marks on his face while shaving in a rush.
He said he gave evidence of his wife’s depression and told the jury after taking Zoloft, his wife gained weight and their sex life became non-existent.
He said the accused had an affair with a woman while his wife was pregnant.
Justice Byrne said by August, 2008 he had started a physical relationship with Toni McHugh.
He testified he told Ms McHugh his loyalty was to his wife and children and when she pushed for things, he would tell her whatever she wanted to hear.
He told the jury Ms McHugh would become angry and agitated and Baden-Clay would hold out against her until the physical relationship resumed.
Justice Byrne said the accused told the jury of his wife’s depression and her repeated reiteration she was not depressed.
He said Baden-Clay told the jury that his business partners stopped selling real estate in September, 2010.
Justice Byrne said the business moved premises and in January, 2011, nine new sales people were hired.
He said the accused trained the new staff when the floods came and had a “catastrophic effect” on the business.
Justice Byrne said the accused’s partners wanted to close the doors but he offered to buy them out.
He said the accused wanted to buy out his partner’s share of the rent roll, paying his two partners $30,000 and keeping up interest payments to them.
He said Baden-Clay borrowed about $90,000 from three friends to keep the business running.
Justice Byrne said Baden-Clay told the jury business was improving by 2012 and he maintained an off-again, on-again relationship with Ms McHugh.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226982264933
He told the jury to carefully consider the conduct of the accused.
He said the accused testified he did not kill his wife and was never scratched by her.
Justice Byrne said Baden-Clay told the jury he got the marks on his face while shaving in a rush.
He said he gave evidence of his wife’s depression and told the jury after taking Zoloft, his wife gained weight and their sex life became non-existent.
He said the accused had an affair with a woman while his wife was pregnant.
Justice Byrne said by August, 2008 he had started a physical relationship with Toni McHugh.
He testified he told Ms McHugh his loyalty was to his wife and children and when she pushed for things, he would tell her whatever she wanted to hear.
He told the jury Ms McHugh would become angry and agitated and Baden-Clay would hold out against her until the physical relationship resumed.
Justice Byrne said the accused told the jury of his wife’s depression and her repeated reiteration she was not depressed.
He said Baden-Clay told the jury that his business partners stopped selling real estate in September, 2010.
Justice Byrne said the business moved premises and in January, 2011, nine new sales people were hired.
He said the accused trained the new staff when the floods came and had a “catastrophic effect” on the business.
Justice Byrne said the accused’s partners wanted to close the doors but he offered to buy them out.
He said the accused wanted to buy out his partner’s share of the rent roll, paying his two partners $30,000 and keeping up interest payments to them.
He said Baden-Clay borrowed about $90,000 from three friends to keep the business running.
Justice Byrne said Baden-Clay told the jury business was improving by 2012 and he maintained an off-again, on-again relationship with Ms McHugh.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226982264933
alioop
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I recall the judge asking the jury if they can deliberate Monday to Friday, and I presume they were in agreement. I think they will start at about 9am each day.
So they should get started tomorrow after the judge has finished summing up the closing addresses.
So they should get started tomorrow after the judge has finished summing up the closing addresses.
Amee
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He said the accused told the jury he got back with her “for the sake of the business”.
Justice Byrne said Baden-Clay’s wife confronted him about the affair and it ended. He said he told Ms McHugh he did not want to be with her and instead wanted to be with his wife and children. He said Ms McHugh threw things at him and became angry.
He said Baden-Clay’s wife joined the business and took on a more active role, while he was banned from going out at night because she did not trust him.
He said the accused told the jury he met with Ms McHugh in December and he told her he loved her.
“He testified that in fact, he did not,” Justice Byrne said.
He said the accused’s wife was unaware his relationship with Ms McHugh had resumed as he used a secret phone account to contact her and deleted the calls between them from the call log in his mobile phone.
Justice Byrne said the accused testified that Ms Ritchie told him it would be useful for his wife to talk about her feelings and ask questions about the affair.
He said the accused initially resisted but eventually agreed to taking part in the 15-minute sessions.
He said Baden-Clay told the jury he was trying to help his mistress find something other than him to fixate on and to distance himself from her.
“In my weakness I tended to roll over and say whatever she wanted to hear,” he said.
Justice Byrne said the accused told the jury he would agree to anything Ms McHugh asked in order to keep her happy.
He said Baden-Clay emailed he would be separated from his wife by July 1, 2012 but in evidence, told the jury he had no intention of doing so.
He said the two of them went to Mt Coot-tha on April 18, 2012 to do the 15-minute session.
Justice Byrne said the accused told them they had not finished all the questions his wife had.
He said that at his wife’s request he drew a diagram of Ms McHugh’s home.
He said the accused went to a chamber of commerce meeting the next day and has no knowledge of how the blood of his wife came to be in the family’s Holden Captiva.
Justice Byrne said Ms Baden-Clay told his wife he was very remorseful and appreciated her strength and forgiveness as they sat at home going through follow-up questions on April 19, 2012.
He said the accused woke up just after 6am to find his wife was missing.
He said he was using his normal razor, which was quite old and blunt, and was really rushing.
Justice Byrne took the jury to Baden-Clay’s testimony of what took place on April 20, 2012.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226982264933
Justice Byrne said Baden-Clay’s wife confronted him about the affair and it ended. He said he told Ms McHugh he did not want to be with her and instead wanted to be with his wife and children. He said Ms McHugh threw things at him and became angry.
He said Baden-Clay’s wife joined the business and took on a more active role, while he was banned from going out at night because she did not trust him.
He said the accused told the jury he met with Ms McHugh in December and he told her he loved her.
“He testified that in fact, he did not,” Justice Byrne said.
He said the accused’s wife was unaware his relationship with Ms McHugh had resumed as he used a secret phone account to contact her and deleted the calls between them from the call log in his mobile phone.
Justice Byrne said the accused testified that Ms Ritchie told him it would be useful for his wife to talk about her feelings and ask questions about the affair.
He said the accused initially resisted but eventually agreed to taking part in the 15-minute sessions.
He said Baden-Clay told the jury he was trying to help his mistress find something other than him to fixate on and to distance himself from her.
“In my weakness I tended to roll over and say whatever she wanted to hear,” he said.
Justice Byrne said the accused told the jury he would agree to anything Ms McHugh asked in order to keep her happy.
He said Baden-Clay emailed he would be separated from his wife by July 1, 2012 but in evidence, told the jury he had no intention of doing so.
He said the two of them went to Mt Coot-tha on April 18, 2012 to do the 15-minute session.
Justice Byrne said the accused told them they had not finished all the questions his wife had.
He said that at his wife’s request he drew a diagram of Ms McHugh’s home.
He said the accused went to a chamber of commerce meeting the next day and has no knowledge of how the blood of his wife came to be in the family’s Holden Captiva.
Justice Byrne said Ms Baden-Clay told his wife he was very remorseful and appreciated her strength and forgiveness as they sat at home going through follow-up questions on April 19, 2012.
He said the accused woke up just after 6am to find his wife was missing.
He said he was using his normal razor, which was quite old and blunt, and was really rushing.
Justice Byrne took the jury to Baden-Clay’s testimony of what took place on April 20, 2012.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226982264933
Amee
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He said the accused told the jury his business was turning around by then and his professions of love to Ms McHugh in the weeks before his wife’s disappearance were just to “placate” her.
He said Baden-Clay told his mistress in a secret email he would leave his wife by July 1 and even told some of his staff he loved her.
He said the accused first told his wife he did not love her in 2009.
Justice Byrne said the accused agreed he may have told Ms McHugh in 2011 he was not ready to leave his wife but one day wanted to go to her unconditionally.
He said Baden-Clay did not consider he was in a relationship with her after December, 2011, even though they had met for sex at least twice and spoke on the phone with some regularity.
He said the accused told the jury he had no fear of his wife and Ms McHugh running into one another at the real estate conference on April 20, 2012.
Justice Byrne said the accused denied putting his wife in the Holden Captiva or dumping her body at the Kholo Creek bridge.
He will continue his summing up of the case on Thursday at 10am
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226982264933
He said Baden-Clay told his mistress in a secret email he would leave his wife by July 1 and even told some of his staff he loved her.
He said the accused first told his wife he did not love her in 2009.
Justice Byrne said the accused agreed he may have told Ms McHugh in 2011 he was not ready to leave his wife but one day wanted to go to her unconditionally.
He said Baden-Clay did not consider he was in a relationship with her after December, 2011, even though they had met for sex at least twice and spoke on the phone with some regularity.
He said the accused told the jury he had no fear of his wife and Ms McHugh running into one another at the real estate conference on April 20, 2012.
Justice Byrne said the accused denied putting his wife in the Holden Captiva or dumping her body at the Kholo Creek bridge.
He will continue his summing up of the case on Thursday at 10am
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226982264933
Amee
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4:25pm Wrap: Today ...
* Crown prosecutor Todd Fuller QC completed his closing address to the jury.
* Referring to a statement Mr Baden-Clay made to marriage counsellor Carmel Ritchie in the same week his wife disappeared, Mr Fuller ended his address with the words: "He wanted to wipe the slate clean."
* Justice John Byrne then launched his summing up of the evidence presented at the trial to the jury.
* Justice Byrne said the jury should first consider the charge of murder and then the lessor charge of manslaughter.
"If you find the accused guilty of murder, you do not need to consider manslaughter," he said.
"But if you find the accused not guilty of murder, then consider the alternative of manslaughter."
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...y-17-week-5-20140709-3bluf.html#ixzz36x2JoJNm
* Crown prosecutor Todd Fuller QC completed his closing address to the jury.
* Referring to a statement Mr Baden-Clay made to marriage counsellor Carmel Ritchie in the same week his wife disappeared, Mr Fuller ended his address with the words: "He wanted to wipe the slate clean."
* Justice John Byrne then launched his summing up of the evidence presented at the trial to the jury.
* Justice Byrne said the jury should first consider the charge of murder and then the lessor charge of manslaughter.
"If you find the accused guilty of murder, you do not need to consider manslaughter," he said.
"But if you find the accused not guilty of murder, then consider the alternative of manslaughter."
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...y-17-week-5-20140709-3bluf.html#ixzz36x2JoJNm
It's not only justice for the victim at stake, but also a person's life and liberty - everything has to be done precisely and by the book to make sure they get it just right. They must avoid any suggestion of a mistrial and avoid creating grounds for appeal in future. Every correct procedure has to be followed.
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