Trial Discussion Thread #47 - 14.07.8, Day 38

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I'd always thought that Reeva had her own key. Wonder if that came out in trial?

I'd always assumed that she was let in by the housekeeper (who turned out to be Frank of course. I was unsure for a while whether OP had both a housekeeper and a gardener as both terms had cropped up). I wouldn't have thought Reeva spent enough time there to warrant having her own key, especially with a live-in servant on the premises.
 
I don't think that specific question was ever answered... as for Frank, maybe he had trouble keeping all the blondes in OP's life straight and therefore decided silence was his best option? If you go back to some of the earlier posts here shortly after the murder, there's some interesting tidbits that having come late to this I totally missed. ie. This Erin Stear, anything ever come of that?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?205154-General-Discussion-Thread-4&p=9765904#post9765904

http://fabwags.com/erin-stear-the-blade-runner-oscar-pistorius-affair/

Can anyone interpret this one?
http://www.tvpiu.it/archives/6589

This is the translation -

PRETORIA - Erin Stear was questioned by investigators who are dealing with the death of Reeva Steenkamp, ​​the girlfriend of Oscar Pistorius.
Erin Stear was heard for his alleged relationship with the sportsman.
The twenty-five socialite made a statement under oath, after the charge of the case Pistorius have resurfaced some sms which would lead to new horizons for investigation.
An acquaintance of the two protagonists of the story told in the columns of the Sun, "Erin met Oscar at a party, he was already with Reeva. They liked and they met again after having exchanged a few text messages.
She was really excited to meet him.
We have seen a couple of times a week before the shooting. Erin is also convinced that Pistorius could not have shot someone deliberately. "
The Stear is just one of many girls that investigators are questioning to shed light on the days preceding the death of Reeva Steenkamp.
Recently it was reported that Pistorius used four phones to keep in touch with friends and girlfriends.


http://www.tvpiu.it/archives/6589
 
Totally agree, the fact of the matter is when The Standers arrived Frank was outside, therefore someone or something must have woken up, what or who was it?, it's a part of the story of that night that is missing, and considering Frank is on the payroll is smells highly fishy.

Yes, just like I don't recall much being made of OP having been at a party that afternoon...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/southafrica/9876309/Oscar-Pistorius-murder-charge-bloodied-cricket-bat-central-piece-of-evidence-against-him.html
An estate agent who attended a party with Pistorius on the evening of Feb 13 — hours before the shooting said he was “delightful, charming and happy”.

Valerie Berkow-Kaye said: “We were all mesmerised by such a smiley, delightful person. He certainly wasn’t planning a murder on Wednesday afternoon.”

For further reference and an interesting post from early days:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?205154-General-Discussion-Thread-4&p=9766447#post9766447
 

Evidence shows :

17:12:57 – Oscar calls Reeva (1 m. 3 s.)
One can infer from Oscar’s tower connections that follow and distances from his house that he called Reeva to tell her he is leaving Joburg and heading home.

17:30:46 – OP 0020 – Midrand_Gardens tower
Oscar is approximately one third of the way between Joburg and Silverwoods : 45.8 km from his house

17:35:02 – OP 0020 – Vodaworld tower
Oscar is approximately 41.0 km from his house

17:36:51 – OP 0020 – Mustek_George tower
Oscar is approximately 39.7 km from his house

17:42 – OP 4949 – Sam_Rand tower
Oscar is approximately 34.6 km from his house

17:44:54 – OP 0020 – The_Mint tower
Oscar is approximately 32.4 km from his house

17:50 – OP 4949 – Flying_Saucer tower
Oscar is approximately 18.6 km from his house

17:53 – OP 4949 – Erasmuskloof tower
Oscar is approximately 13.8 km from his house

18:07:22 – OP 0020 – Wapadrand tower
Oscar is approximately 5.4 km from his house.

ALSO :

– From before 12:12:05 up until 15:46:10, Reeva's stated intention was to go home to Joburg… no movie with Samantha Greyvenstien or dinner with friends or night out… also, Reeva had a speech on the morning of 14 February in Joburg.

– Although neither Justin Divaris nor Samantha Greyvenstien have alleged speaking to Reeva directly, both have alleged that it was Reeva who wanted OP to come home to Silverwoods and spend the night with her…. hence corroborating OP.

– OP stated in his bail affidavit of February 2013 : " Reeva would have gone out with her friends and I with my friends. Reeva then called me and asked that we rather spend the evening at home. I agreed and we were content to have a quiet dinner together at home. "… phone records show that Reeva NEVER called Oscar.

– 15:21:40 OP wrote to Reeva : " Stay tonight if you would like. "… again contradicting the bail affidavit : OP is the one who suggested that Reeva spend the night, not the other way round… BUT this also means that OP had already no intentions of spending the night in Joburg with Divaris, nor did he believe that Reeva had plans of going to the movies with Greyvenstien in Joburg… and if Divaris only invited OP after 15:21:40, why did OP have to check with Reeva who had already stated that she was going back to Joburg ?

– 15:21:52 OP wrote to Reeva : " I’m just finishing off at Ryan "… so either he was lying to Reeva or his lunch with Justin Divaris was a VERY late lunch… about 3 hours later, OP then ate an early stir-fry chicken dinner at 7PM with Reeva ??… that does not ring true !

– OP called Reeva at 15:41:54… this is 20 minutes after OP finished at Ryan… According to Justin Divaris and Samantha Greyvenstien, that call was made AFTER the late lunch with Justin, AFTER going back to Justin's office and AFTER Samantha arrived at Justin's office… I'm not familiar with SA, but I suspect that : going to a restaurant, parking, ordering, waiting for the food, eating, paying the bill, going to Justin's office, waiting for the girlfriend and talking about the plan for the evening... takes more than 20 minutes… so it was not only a very late lunch but also an EXTREMELY BRIEF lunch !… unless Ryan is the restaurant.

– 15:46:10 Reeva wrote to OP : " Angel I’m going to go home at like 6. Please stay and do whatever it was you were gonna do "… again contradicting OP's bail affidavit and the affidavits of Divaris and Greyvenstien… Reeva was going home to Joburg, OP was free to go out with Divaris.

Between 15:21:52 and 17:12:57, Oscar was a VERY busy man during those 2 hours :

– OP had a late lunch with Justin Divaris
– OP accompanied Justin Divaris back to his office
– Samantha Greyvenstien met up with OP at Justin's office
– OP talked to Reeva in the presence of Justin and Samantha at Justin's office
– OP went to a party where he mesmerized and delighted the crowd

… talk about a web of lies !!
 
I don't understand why there was all the speculation about 'leaks' over the video .. if Roder owns the company who made the animation, and he featured in the Sunday Night programme .. then how can the videos have been 'leaked' .. from what I can see (I may be wrong) but if he willingly took part in the programme, then he must also have provided them with the video footage too (whether or not that was in agreement, or even asked to do so by the DT, I have no idea but he clearly must've worked with the Sunday Night programme makers in making this programme because he himself features pretty heavily in it!) Maybe I've misunderstood something, somewhere ...

Maybe the clan decided the video was no longer of any use to them because OP changed his story so many times.............so they didn't pay for it and Roder is airing it to spite them:)
 
I have just been watching a replay of the Legal Round Table No. 13 and one of the points brought up was how long would the judge give for heads of argument to be ready. It seems 2 days, or thereabouts, was all that was necessary/normal. Any guesses as to why in this case the DT and PT have been given a month?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-cEuadXh38
 
Here's an LA Times article about OP's tweets. I can't read it myself as I've used up my allowance, but others might be able to.

http://www.latimes.com/world/africa/la-fg-oscar-pistorius-tweets-20140714-story.html

And here is a Ted talk by the Austrian Holocaust survivor and psychiatrist Victor Frankl that OP's quoting in his tweet.

'In this rare clip from 1972, legendary psychiatrist and Holocaust-survivor Viktor Frankl delivers a powerful message about the human search for meaning — and the most important gift we can give others.'

http://www.ted.com/talks/viktor_frankl_youth_in_search_of_meaning
 
It looks like the comments have been disabled from his twitter feed now .. well, I can't see them anymore anyway ..
 
If Oscar Pistorius thinks it's wise to go around tweeting the words of holocaust survivors then I think he should have quoted Primo Levi. It's much more suited to Oscar Pistorius's situation, in my opinion.

“Human memory is a marvelous but fallacious instrument. The memories which lie within us are not carved in stone; not only do they tend to become erased as the years go by, but often they change, or even increase by incorporating extraneous features.”

http://etd.library.vanderbilt.edu/available/etd-05012009-091855/unrestricted/Memory-thesis.pdf
 
I can't say how misguided I think those tweets are, and I think it's the last thing Roux would have wanted him to do.
 
Still have many issues with the Weskoppies psychological report from Jonathan Schotz that I will go through in a few different posts.

First Issue – Abusive relationship finding:

The report states Pistorius become “insecure and jealous at times”.
Yet the psychologist Scholtz writes, “there was no signs of abuse or co-ercion” like those “often found in these kinds of relationships.”
It’s notable that Scholtz thinks this amount of insecurity and jealously is “normal for the specific occasion.”
Scholtz report quotes two academic studies which he presumably based his idea of what consisted “these types of relationships”. (see p.30 section 5.6)

  • [*]Main problem is that the co-author of the study he quotes, ‘Spiral of Entrapment – Abused Women in Conflict with the Law’, seems to think this actually is a case around a domestic violence context.
    [*]The researcher and expert in violence against women, Lisa Vetten, is quoted in multiple articles and think-pieces discussing issues around violence and the Pistorius trial.
    [*]Lisa Vetten even goes as far to say that the victim herself, from Steenkamp’s background and trial tweets, would likely want her death to be seen as a domestic violence case.
  • (The other co-author is Hallie Ludsin and somehow Schotz incorrectly spells her name as Ludson. http://books.google.com.hk/books?id...=gbs_selected_pages&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=false)
  • Second study Scholtz quotes seems to be on 60 men arrested by domestic violence in the United States written by Mauricio and Gormley, 2001. https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/abstract.aspx?ID=209195 - Perhaps they have written another study, or updated the original in 2009, as I was unable to find the stated 2009 reference.


List of Lisa Vetten talking about domestic violence and Pistorius case:


1. "Lisa Vetten, research associate at the Wits Institute for Social and Economic Research, said that in light of Steenkamp’s own tweets and actions ahead of her death, it was likely she would have wanted her case to be seen in the broader context of domestic violence. She said despite being “one of the most significant social problems that controls us”, it was given little attention.

Vetten said unfortunately Steenkamp’s case was unlikely to be helpful to the fight against domestic violence as long as the focus stayed on her alone.

“When the trial is over it will all be forgotten,” she said, “It is not going to change future murders.”"
http://www.security.co.za/fullStory.asp?NewsId=27540

2. "Lisa Vetten in International Business Times: “Pistorius’ disability may have exacerbated his insecurities, forcing him to compensate for his perceived deficiencies.
"Disabled men and women often struggle with their sense of masculinity or femininity because they are to some degree dependent,” she said.
“I have seen examples of them placing particular pride on physical attractiveness. Maybe he [Pistorius] struggles with that. The guns and sports cars gave an impression that he was over-compensating so as to be seen as 'normal'.""
http://www.ibtimes.com/oscar-pistorius-symbol-south-african-mens-war-violence-against-women-1093778

3. ""Only with a sensational case like this do people remember domestic violence is a problem."
Vetten said many intimate-partner homicides centred on a woman's sexuality, the desire to control it and suspicion of affairs.
With athletes, other things come into play.
"They live in an unreal world ... They get distorted pictures of themselves and their entitlements," she said."
http://m.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/?articleId=11170398

4. "Vetten said she was not surprised that many members of the public immediately concluded that abuse was a factor in Steenkamp’s killing.
“Domestic violence is just so thoroughly entrenched and woven in the day-to-day fabric of your life, invisible, mundane. It’s bread and butter for most women,” she said.
“If you look at the statistics, this is the most common form of violence that women experience, and it’s the most likely way they are going to die.
“So domestic violence is a daily reality for most women.
“If it hasn’t happened to them, they’ve seen it with mothers, they’ve seen it with their sisters, they’ve sat and heard it from their next-door neighbour, they’ve watched it happen in public – and everybody stands back and does nothing.
“And that is across the board. Domestic violence is not class-based or race-based in South Africa.”
Vetten says the high rate of domestic abuse may boil down to that old chestnut: apartheid.
Black men were oppressed and abused by society and infantilised as “boys”, while white men were given an inflated sense of their own importance.
Both treatments resulted in the same reaction, she says: men who felt powerless in society tried to right the balance by exercising their authority in the home; men who felt all-powerful in society took that authority home with them."
http://www.iol.co.za/the-star/why-black-women-are-protesting-at-oscar-trial-1.1658960#.U8OEyqjd2BA

5. Lisa Vetten writing in ‘The Conversation’

“Who is responsible for violence towards women? This question runs like a thread through some of the public discourses swirling around the trial of athlete Oscar Pistorius. In some ways he represents an inconvenient truth – that not all violence against white women in South Africa is carried out by black men…
The social and political dynamics of men’s violence towards women are fraught and frequently work in ways that downplay men’s responsibility for their actions. The Pistorius trial is thus far more than a legal enquiry into the athlete’s responsibility for the death of Reeva Steenkamp. Indeed, it is a window onto the larger narratives and politics of gender and race permanently under construction in South Africa.”
http://theconversation.com/profiles/lisa-vetten-124695/articles


6. Vid interview with Lisa Vetten talking generally about causes of violence and homicide in South Africa.
Also worth looking at is another interview from a women who faced a partner who threatened her with a firearm.
http://www.independent.ie/world-new...e-against-women-in-south-africa-30248445.html
 
Also, for anyone that hasn't read this article yet, although quite long, it's definitely worth reading.

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2013/06/oscar-pistorius-murder

That's a good article. I wonder why "Uncle Mike" never testified?

More questions from me:

The lightbulb in the toilet the defence claimed wasn't working. If his balance was so bad at night why wasn't it a priority to fix and didn't the defence say they'd prove it wasn't working?

If the LED lights from the stereo were a constant irritation to his sleep, then why not move it permanently?

If Mr Roux said he was going to prove that OP screamed like a girl and never provided that proof, does Judge Masipa then have to assume the ear witnesses were all correct that they heard a woman screaming?

Is anybody else planning on going back to the start to weigh up what we now know compared to what was known at the start of the trial?
 
That's a good article. I wonder why "Uncle Mike" never testified?

That was about OP running out with a gun when Mike's son made a noise in the night, wasn't it? The prosecution would easily have turned this and similar incidents around, by pointing out that OP didn't shoot on those occasions.

The lightbulb in the toilet the defence claimed wasn't working. If his balance was so bad at night why wasn't it a priority to fix and didn't the defence say they'd prove it wasn't working?

The prosecution didn't challenge it, so there was no need to prove it.
I doubt if OP would bother to close the toilet door if he used the loo at night, there would be enough light from the bathroom. So probably not a priority.

If the LED lights from the stereo were a constant irritation to his sleep, then why not move it permanently?

To be fair, that bedroom isn't all that big, so there probably weren't many options. But I don't buy the light being a problem. OP has said in interviews that he has trouble sleeping generally. If the light was a big deal, he would have contrived some way of covering it permanently - or just switch it off at the socket.

If Mr Roux said he was going to prove that OP screamed like a girl and never provided that proof, does Judge Masipa then have to assume the ear witnesses were all correct that they heard a woman screaming?

I sincerely hope so! I can't see why she wouldn't.
 
http://www.beeld.com/nuus/2014-07-09-7-mistastings-oor-die-oscar-saak

Interesting article. Most of this have already been discussed on this forum. So, for what it's worth, the following is a summary of the article above, not a verbatim translation.


Seven misconceptions about the Oscar case by Marida Fitzpatrick from Afrikaans newspaper, Beeld.


Mistake 1: Only the State has the burden of proof.

Not true.

In most criminal cases the burden of proof rests on the State and not the defense/defence.

But the OP case is different because OP admits that he shot and killed Reeva. This means OP has the burden to prove that it is reasonable and possible that he honestly believed he acted in self defense when he killed her. (Putative self defense)


Mistake 2: The State must prove motive

Not true.

The State has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that OP knew that there was a human being behind the door and that he shot with the intention to unlawfully kill that person, but the State does not have to prove why he did it.

It is the State's version that OP and Reeva had an argument that night, but, according to Prof James Grant from Wits University, it is not necessary for the State to prove why (or even that) they argued.


Mistake 3: Culpable Homicide is the automatic "second prize."

Not always true.

Culpable homicide is not a watered down version of murder. These are two different charges.

If the judge accepts OP's version she will then go on to consider culpable homicide. However if the judge rejects his version, culpable homicide is not on the table.


Mistake 4: The police tampered with the crime scene

Not true.

It is the defence's version that the police tampered with the crime scene, yet they have not proved it.

Tamper and contaminate are not the same things. If you walk around the scene without booties it is contamination. If you purposely move evidence to create a false impression, that is tampering.

It's OP's version that the police moved things. However he can not remember where the objects originally were and neither can he explain why the police moved those specific objects.

(Note: The police only had custody of the crime scene for three or four days and that was before the bail hearing. So at the time they had custody they had no clue what OP's version was except for "I shot Reeva. I thought she was an intruder." So it was impossible for them to tamper with the scene.

And while we're on the subject, it was also impossible for the police to seize all the relevant evidence e.g. the cord, because they had no idea what would or would not be relevant to OP's version.)


Mistake 5: 1 witness + 1 witness = 2 witnesses

Nope.

The four State witnesses who testified that they had heard a woman scream does not carry the weight of only four witnesses.

Prof. Grant says that because these witnesses' testimony support each other, the weight given to their versions will increase exponentially and the whole will be bigger than the sum of its parts.


Mistake 6: The defence's neighbours contradicts the State's neighbours.

Nope.

The defence's neighbours did not hear a woman screaming, or the first set of sounds. The last sound woke them and they then heard Pistorius crying.


Mistake 7: The other three charges are minor charges

No, they are not.

Compared to a murder charge these charges may sound trivial but they are important because the judge will have heard how OP said the gun "just went off in his hand." She knows it is not physically possible, so it can have a huge impact on his overall believability.
 
I can't say how misguided I think those tweets are, and I think it's the last thing Roux would have wanted him to do.

LOL, there is a response to one of his tweets by someone calling themselves "Barry Roux" and it says:

@OscarPistorius: pic.twitter.com/AFFOVJG3Hn” - I thought we discussed this religious pandering?


:floorlaugh:

.
 
Agreed. For some reason it sticks in my mind that Frank was maybe a foreign person and in a class of subservient workers there in SA that just do not speak about the goings on of their employers out of respect and/or for fear of losing their jobs. I would not be surprised if Frank got a nice raise after the incident. It seems he would still be needed to maintain care of the house, gardens and pool, since OP was trying to sell it.

We have very stringent labor laws to protect workers. But illegal immigrants are not protected. So perhaps Frank is an illegal immigrant?
 
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